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Re: [SCA-Garb] Still looking for male not female garb help.

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  • Mary Taran
    ... If you want help, you ll have to ask for what you need help with. There are a number of people on this list who sew for men or who are men. Mary Taran ...
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 1, 2004
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      At 04:00 PM 8/1/2004, you wrote:

      >Sorry to be rude, but is there a group or web-site for mens garb? I
      >am not seeing alot of help for men on this group.
      >
      >Bruce

      If you want help, you'll have to ask for what you need help with. There
      are a number of people on this list who sew for men or who are men.

      Mary Taran



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    • Talia
      Hi Bruce, There are a lot of us here who sew for men. Personally, I ve done 13th, 14th, and 15th century European men s wear, and would be quite happy to
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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        Hi Bruce,

        There are a lot of us here who sew for men. Personally, I've done 13th,
        14th, and 15th century European men's wear, and would be quite happy to
        answer any questions if I know the answer. Chances are, if someone here
        doesn't know the answer, we'll know where you can find the answers.

        Talia
        Calontir

        > Sorry to be rude, but is there a group or web-site for mens garb? I
        > am not seeing alot of help for men on this group.
        >
        > Bruce
        >
      • Kass McGann
        ... I ... Bruce, My company produces patterns for men s clothing from 16th and 17th century Irish, Scottish, and English clothing (and soon to add Polish and
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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          --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Grayman" <newpathseaker@y...> wrote:
          > Sorry to be rude, but is there a group or web-site for mens garb?
          I
          > am not seeing alot of help for men on this group.

          Bruce,

          My company produces patterns for men's clothing from 16th and 17th
          century Irish, Scottish, and English clothing (and soon to add Polish
          and German). I have many male customers who find my patterns easy to
          use even though they know nothing about sewing. What are you after?

          Kass

          Reconstructing History Patterns
          http://reconstructinghistory.com
        • Michael
          Um a little Moor? late 14thC to 15th ? Thanks Mareck There are only two infinite things: The Universe, and Human Stupidity. But I m not too sure about the
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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            Um a little Moor?
            late 14thC to 15th ?

            Thanks
            Mareck

            "There are only two infinite things: The Universe, and Human Stupidity.
            But I'm not too sure about the former."
            ---Albert Einstein.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kass McGann" <historian@...>
            My company produces patterns for men's clothing from 16th and 17th
            century Irish, Scottish, and English clothing (and soon to add Polish
            and German). I have many male customers who find my patterns easy to
            use even though they know nothing about sewing. What are you after?
            Kass
            Reconstructing History Patterns
            http://reconstructinghistory.com
          • Kass McGann
            ... There are plans in the works for a 14th/15th century line in 2005/6. =) Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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              --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <innocent_for@h...> wrote:
              > Um a little Moor?
              > late 14thC to 15th ?
              >
              > Thanks
              > Mareck

              There are plans in the works for a 14th/15th century line in 2005/6.
              =)

              Kass
              Reconstructing History Patterns
              http://reconstructinghistory.com
            • Maura Folsom
              ... http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/courtyard.html has lots of information. Lilinah is hosting Rashid s middle eastern costuming info (
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <innocent_for@h...> wrote:
                > Um a little Moor?
                > late 14thC to 15th ?

                http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/courtyard.html has lots of
                information. Lilinah is hosting Rashid's middle eastern costuming info
                ( http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Rashid/Rashid0.html ) and between
                the two of them, there's a treasure trove of iuseful things, including
                some of what you are looking for. This is where I got most of my
                information, above and beyond my copy of Tilke's _Costume Patterns and
                Designs_ (also known as the Big Book of Ethnic Costumes), there is a
                smaller work by Tilke here:
                http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/ (though it is modern, it
                will give an idea of basic construction).

                Here's something else that will be helpful (from a message I posted to
                anothr group):
                "There's a good bit [of research material]for those of us who are
                doing middle eastern,
                and much of it is in-period, somewhere or other. Though the vast
                majority is late-period for the SCA, I have found at least 4 14thc
                manuscripts, and one 12thc Galenic medical text. Lots of histories and
                lives of Mohammed, some racy/romantic 16th and 17th century
                miniatures, maps, medical texts, things that look like illuminations
                for passages of the Koran or possibly translations of the Bible (not
                really sure what's going on with some of them, as my French is Quite
                Rusty Indeed)

                To search and actually locate the illumnations you want:
                Go to http://gallica.bnf.fr/ click "recherche." Under "Types de
                documents" *uncheck* all but "Lots d'images" and "Documents
                manuscrits." Enter your search terms under "Recherche libre" and click
                "recherche."

                Search terms that will get you to the Middle eastern manuscripts:
                Persan, arabe, turc [enter without commas, and you will get better
                results searching them one at a time]

                To help you locate what you want in the results, they all seem to be
                in the "BNF Richelieu Manuscrits" collection.

                Have fun - there's lots here."
                And, actually, there are a good deal MORE visual sources for men than
                for women, so you are in luck.

                Marg.
              • Bice
                For women in case anyone is interested: http://fenris.net/~lizyoung/16thCePers/16thCePersian.html http://www.island.net/~doerksen/basics.html
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                  For women in case anyone is interested:
                  http://fenris.net/~lizyoung/16thCePers/16thCePersian.html
                  http://www.island.net/~doerksen/basics.html
                  http://mywebpage.netscape.com/i4niqaab/styles.html
                  http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Clothing/Islam_Clothing,_Jewelry_Ma.html
                  (that's the best one)

                  Bice
                  eBay
                  Floor Loom!! Harrisville Designs
                  4 Harness 6 Pedal
                  http://snipurl.com/74k1

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Have fun - there's lots here."
                  And, actually, there are a good deal MORE visual sources for men than
                  for women, so you are in luck.

                  Marg
                • Maura Folsom
                  ... Okay, since Bice has added some girl-specific info, I ll repost this here (Origianlly posted over on 12thCenturyGarb): [These are specifically 13thC, there
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                    --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Bice <jacquelinejbump@g...> wrote:
                    > For women in case anyone is interested:

                    Okay, since Bice has added some girl-specific info, I'll repost this
                    here (Origianlly posted over on 12thCenturyGarb):

                    [These are specifically 13thC, there are later manuscripts in teh BNF
                    with depictions of women, but I thought it might be nice to have an
                    inventory of women in these manuscripts]
                    "Not sure how helpful this is, but here's an illuminated collection of
                    fables from Egypt, dated 13thC by the BNF:

                    http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/noticesInd/MAN00152.htm
                    For images of women, check out plates 37, 50, 52, 57, 65 (but she's
                    naked under bedcovers), 67 (same as last, except ... she looks to have
                    a moustache?), 88, 89, 91 (maybe - the head is gone from the figure in
                    red, who MAY be a veiled lady).

                    Another 13th c book, this one from Iraq:
                    http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/noticesInd/MAN00176.htm
                    Plates 13 (spinning woman using spoked-type spinning wheel), 15 (lady
                    behind screen), 20, 23 (mourning women), 26 (one sad little half-naked
                    dancing girl), 27 (not actually a woman, but Abu Zayed disguised as
                    one), 35 (marriage scene), 44, possibly 68 (not sure if these are
                    concubines, dancing girls, or eunuchs..), 70 (birthing scene), 71, 78
                    (village women), 79, 81,

                    Another 13th C life of Abu-Zayed, this time from Syria:
                    http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/noticesInd/MAN00183.htm
                    Plates 7, 10 (female disguise), 13 (? - should have a woman in it, but
                    she appears to have been cut out)"

                    Marg.
                  • Bice
                    You were dying to anyhow admit it. Besides the furthering of costume info is never a bad thing and we knew the question was inevitable. eBay Floor Loom!!
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                      You were dying to anyhow admit it. Besides the furthering of costume
                      info is never a bad thing and we knew the question was inevitable.


                      eBay
                      Floor Loom!! Harrisville Designs
                      4 Harness 6 Pedal
                      http://snipurl.com/74k1

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Okay, since Bice has added some girl-specific info, I'll repost this
                      here (Originally posted over on 12thCenturyGarb):--
                    • Maura Folsom
                      ... Yes, I jsut needed an excuse ;) Marg.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                        --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Bice <jacquelinejbump@g...> wrote:
                        > You were dying to anyhow admit it. Besides the furthering of costume
                        > info is never a bad thing and we knew the question was inevitable.

                        Yes, I jsut needed an excuse ;)

                        Marg.
                      • Michael
                        Hm? I ve been know to procrastinate, but never on a schedule. Mareck Omar the tent makers other sized model There are only two infinite things: The
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                          Hm?
                          I've been know to procrastinate, but never on a schedule.

                          Mareck
                          Omar the tent makers "other" sized model

                          "There are only two infinite things: The Universe, and Human Stupidity.
                          But I'm not too sure about the former."
                          ---Albert Einstein.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          > --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <innocent_for@h...> wrote:
                          > > Um a little Moor?
                          > > late 14thC to 15th ?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks
                          > > Mareck
                          >
                          > There are plans in the works for a 14th/15th century line in 2005/6.
                          > =)
                        • Gray Man
                          Hi Bice Any suggestions on pants patterns that are easy to start with? I am a big guy who spends lots of time at my forge both in real life and in persona.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 12, 2004
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                            Hi Bice

                            Any suggestions on pants patterns that are easy to start with? I am a big guy who spends lots of time at my forge both in real life and in persona. So I tend to damage lots of clothes. My real job is a computer tech.

                            Bruce




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                          • Gray Man
                            Thank you I think I will start there. Bruce ... Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 12, 2004
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                              Thank you I think I will start there.

                              Bruce

                              Adrienne Lapp <linuxwitch@...> wrote:


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                            • Bice
                              Well it depends. Do you sew a lot or are you new? If you aren t a heavy sewer than I suggest getting the Simplicity patterns. They have some really nice garb
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 13, 2004
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                                Well it depends. Do you sew a lot or are you new? If you aren't a
                                heavy sewer than I suggest getting the Simplicity patterns. They have
                                some really nice garb patterns and you can sometimes get them on sale
                                for 99 cents. If you *can* sew however and are really good enough to
                                handle it then I suggest Margo Anderson's male patterns and I know
                                Kass has some (although I've never used them) or Period Patterns has
                                some lovely male patterns. When I sew male garb I tend to use the
                                Simplicity ones but if it's court then I use the PP's. It's all
                                dependent on how well you sew.

                                B
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Hi Bice

                                Any suggestions on pants patterns that are easy to start with? I am a
                                big guy who spends lots of time at my forge both in real life and in
                                persona. So I tend to damage lots of clothes. My real job is a
                                computer tech.

                                Bruce
                              • Adrienne Lapp
                                Bruce, Salwars are very easy to make (I can crank a pair out in 40 minutes). Here s a couple patterns:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 13, 2004
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                                  Bruce,

                                  Salwars are very easy to make (I can crank a pair out in 40 minutes).
                                  Here's a couple patterns:

                                  http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Patterns/salwar.gif (Uncle
                                  Rashid's)
                                  http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_recpants.htm (Rectangular construction)

                                  With the second one, if you're a gentleman of stature, you probably need
                                  to use 60" fabric.

                                  You can also make pajama-style pants (loose fitting, straight leg'd,
                                  drawstring waist band) by using a commercial pattern, or tracing around
                                  your favorite/best fitting pair of slacks. Just be sure to give
                                  yourself enough ease through the crotch/rise. I made that mistake on a
                                  pair of my lord's trousers and he ended up with a pair of split hosen.
                                  ;)

                                  Since you work with fire, please be sure to use natural fiber (cotton,
                                  linen, wool or blends there of) as synthetics have this innate tendency
                                  to melt (probably already know this, tho) :)

                                  Ragnhildr

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Gray Man [mailto:newpathseaker@...]
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:34 PM
                                  To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Re: Still looking for male not female garb help.

                                  Hi Bice

                                  Any suggestions on pants patterns that are easy to start with? I am a
                                  big guy who spends lots of time at my forge both in real life and in
                                  persona. So I tend to damage lots of clothes. My real job is a computer
                                  tech.

                                  Bruce
                                • Kiara/Chiara Fagni
                                  You might also want to get a fire-retardent spray, like at DharmaTrading http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1693-AA.shtml I had some fire land on me a few
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 13, 2004
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                                    You might also want to get a fire-retardent spray, like at DharmaTrading
                                    http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1693-AA.shtml

                                    I had some fire land on me a few events ago. The treated fabric was
                                    easy to put out....the non-treated fabric took a lot more stomping and
                                    hitting to keep it from combusting into flames...the cotton was VERY
                                    flamable.

                                    --Kiara


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Adrienne Lapp <linuxwitch@...>

                                    Since you work with fire, please be sure to use natural fiber (cotton,
                                    linen, wool or blends there of) as synthetics have this innate tendency
                                    to melt (probably already know this, tho) :)
                                  • Lente
                                    I basically use rashid s pattern for my pants. I also tend to add a 6 to 8 inch cuff at the bottom, because I tend to tuck my pants into my boots. After having
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 13, 2004
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                                      I basically use rashid's pattern for my pants. I also tend to add a 6 to 8 inch cuff at the bottom, because I tend to tuck my pants into my boots. After having made some pants using a braies type pants pattern from a theater pattern book and having to add 12inch to finally get them to not pull out of my boots when I set down I wasn't going through that with the new pattern. Now you also might think my wiastband excessive but over the first 3 SCA years I went up and down in size so sometimes my brae style pants would fit and other times they wouldn't, this time around I wanted the pants to fit through all weight changes (and yes they have, including 2 pregnancies). right now I'm around 205 punds and 5'8" tall.

                                      Okay here's some general figures from my pants:
                                      leg length overall: 45" (4 inches waistband; 5 inches in leg cuffs; 36 inches in legs)
                                      waistband: 88" wide
                                      depth of crotch: 20" (16" crotch section, 4" waistband)

                                      now some general size on the various pieces:
                                      waistband: 44" by 8" (cut 2)
                                      leg cuffs: 7" by 16" (cut 2)
                                      legs: 36"long by 44" wide (cut on an angle on selvage side at 22" to the bottom edge at 8" on the fold)
                                      Crotch square: 22" square or (4 pieces from the cut off section basically 22" on diagonal; 16" or so on straight sides)
                                      drawstring: 3 yards of cording (longer than the wiastband fabric is better; cotton cording will shrink) the poackage of 1/8" cotton cording at Walmart or home depot works well for this.

                                      so without shrinkage of fabric these can be made from 2 2/3 yards of 44" wide fabric; I usually get 3 to 3 1/4 yards of fabric just for shrinkage in prewashing fabric. Now I tend to make my pants out of cotton and such that is fairly lightweight but I have made mongol style pants (very similar) for my lord out of a heavy weight canvas and a heavy weight cotton twill to fight in. The only thing I did different on his was to use a lighter weight twill for the waisband area than the pant fabric, easire to pull the drwstring tight. Now 4 years after first switching to this style I would add in a second drawstring and have it permantely hold some of the waistband to a smaller size, using a porta-potty can be an adventure in dexterity. I have to make some new pants for my husband soon and he wants me to make his waist band area smaller and have the permanent drawstring be elastic and the regular one out of cotton cording. Out of the two fighting pants he had we are down to one set right now and I have to put in some patches in the knee areas but still great otherwise.

                                      Kathws

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Adrienne Lapp
                                      To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:55 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [SCA-Garb] Re: Still looking for male not female garb help.


                                      Bruce,

                                      Salwars are very easy to make (I can crank a pair out in 40 minutes).
                                      Here's a couple patterns:

                                      http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/Patterns/salwar.gif (Uncle
                                      Rashid's)
                                      http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_recpants.htm (Rectangular construction)

                                      With the second one, if you're a gentleman of stature, you probably need
                                      to use 60" fabric.

                                      You can also make pajama-style pants (loose fitting, straight leg'd,
                                      drawstring waist band) by using a commercial pattern, or tracing around
                                      your favorite/best fitting pair of slacks. Just be sure to give
                                      yourself enough ease through the crotch/rise. I made that mistake on a
                                      pair of my lord's trousers and he ended up with a pair of split hosen.
                                      ;)

                                      Since you work with fire, please be sure to use natural fiber (cotton,
                                      linen, wool or blends there of) as synthetics have this innate tendency
                                      to melt (probably already know this, tho) :)

                                      Ragnhildr

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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