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Re: [SCA-Garb] Walmart has brought back Medieval shirts.

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  • Moira
    I ve seen them here in the Valdosta, GA Walmart as well, about 3 weeks ago ... From: Martha Tomlin To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 02,
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 1, 2003
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      I've seen them here in the Valdosta, GA Walmart as well, about 3 weeks ago
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Martha Tomlin
      To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:54 PM
      Subject: RE: [SCA-Garb] Walmart has brought back Medieval shirts.


      Only found them in men's sizes. From small to 3X. In my walmart they were
      in about the middle of the mens department. They come in solid, tan,
      offwhite, black, and striped offwhite, striped tan, and striped black, and I
      also think a solid white. The front neckline slit, is grommetted and laced.
      And, I'm not sure if they are completely period, but my Baroness gave her
      approval for them, and planned on buying a few for her daughter. Which a
      mens small or medium would fit. I'll try and get the manufacturer, when I
      go to work today. And they are in the Placerville, CA Walmart store, but
      thought they might make appearances in others as well.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • petite_flower@comcast.net
      The sleeves SHOULD be sewn on separately for a tunic.....you can take shortcuts and cut them out all in one piece, but it s not a period construction because
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 3, 2003
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        The sleeves SHOULD be sewn on separately for a tunic.....you can take shortcuts
        and cut them out all in one piece, but it's not a period construction because
        it wastes an obscene amount of fabric. And, well, it wastes an obscene amount
        of fabric!

        It sounds more like a "poet's shirt" type thing then a tunic though, from the
        description.



        > No Boundaries is the Manufacturer, which I believe is a Walmart brand. And
        > in regards to why would I have to ask about buying a shirt. Well, if it's
        > going to be worn at SCA events only, then I want to make damn sure it's
        > close to being period. And yes, the shirts look like tunics, other then the
        > fact that the sleeves are sewn on seperately.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: ladyquest2002@... [mailto:ladyquest2002@...]
        > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:47 AM
        > To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Walmart has brought back Medieval shirts.
        >
        >
        > The shirts were approved?
        > I can't wait to get my lord some.
        > Can you give any more details about the shirts? Such as what they look
        > like,
        > colors, where in the men's section to find them. Are they only in men's
        > sizes?
        > I am very interested because I can't seem to find the time sew. 3 kids and
        > all.
        >
        > Thank you in advance...
        >
        > Ladyquest
        >
        >
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      • ivinian
        That s true, it does take way more fabric to do it in the two-piece style popular in the SCA. My webpage mentions making a more period construction that cost
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 4, 2003
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          That's true, it does take way more fabric to do it in the two-piece
          style popular in the SCA. My webpage mentions making a more period
          construction that cost me 1.5 yards for a tall guy. ;) But to each
          their own! It does take longer to do it that way.

          Vangelista
          http://www.florentine-persona.com

          --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, petite_flower@c... wrote:
          > The sleeves SHOULD be sewn on separately for a tunic.....you can
          take shortcuts
          > and cut them out all in one piece, but it's not a period
          construction because
          > it wastes an obscene amount of fabric. And, well, it wastes an
          obscene amount
          > of fabric!
          >
          > It sounds more like a "poet's shirt" type thing then a tunic
          though, from the
          > description.
          >
        • borderlands15213
          Okay, here s hoping the list can answer a question, or at least by offering your opinions or points of view can help me decide something. I m going to be
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 4, 2003
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            Okay, here's hoping the list can answer a question, or at least by
            offering your opinions or points of view can help me decide something.

            I'm going to be making several tunics and shirts for a friend, as a
            favor. He'll be supplying the fabric.
            He's not terribly tall, but he *is* a very large lord.
            I did one shirt a little over two years ago, with lots of teeny-weeny
            little cartridge pleats managing the fullness of the front and back;
            attached the sleeve at the shoulder, and still needed HUGE gussets to
            allow the shirt to close under the arms and at the side seams.

            I'm planning on geometric, no-waste cutting for the scheduled tunics
            and shirts. It's his money, and I'm not authorized to be wasteful.
            If it were your project, would you:
            1.) Cut the front and the back wider (fuller) and make the shoulder
            seams longer? This will drop the shoulder seam off the shoulder cap,
            but will allow a smaller gusset.
            2.) Kinda cheat? Shape the armhole more like a modern armscye,
            which would allow the sleeve to attach at the actual end of the
            shoulder, shape the sleevehead and possibly eliminate the gussets?
            And accept some "wastage" in the cutting?
            3.) Ask the client for his preferences as to "authentic" and go from
            there?
            4.) Cry "Damn the modifications or anybody's preferences!" and just
            use the fully geometric cut and the HUGE gussets. (Not really
            shouting--they are huge.)
            With thanks--

            Yseult






            --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "ivinian" <ivinian@h...> wrote:
            > That's true, it does take way more fabric to do it in the two-piece
            > style popular in the SCA. My webpage mentions making a more period
            > construction that cost me 1.5 yards for a tall guy. ;) But to each
            > their own! It does take longer to do it that way.
            >
            > Vangelista
            > http://www.florentine-persona.com


            <<<snipped>>>>
          • unclrashid
            ... shoulder ... cap, ... gussets? ... Contrary to popular belief, some of the extant tunics of the middle ages show armhole shaping. Usually somewhat
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 4, 2003
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              --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
              <borderlands15213@y...> wrote:
              > He's not terribly tall, but he *is* a very large lord.
              > 1.) Cut the front and the back wider (fuller) and make the
              shoulder
              > seams longer? This will drop the shoulder seam off the shoulder
              cap,
              > but will allow a smaller gusset.
              > 2.) Kinda cheat? Shape the armhole more like a modern armscye,
              > which would allow the sleeve to attach at the actual end of the
              > shoulder, shape the sleevehead and possibly eliminate the
              gussets?
              > And accept some "wastage" in the cutting?

              Contrary to popular belief, some of the extant tunics of the middle
              ages show armhole shaping. Usually somewhat shallower than a modern
              armhole. Usually the sleevehead is just cut straight. It is also
              possible to use a gusset with the sleeve in this case.

              I have also done a lot of sewing for large people and here is what I
              find works best: cut the body of the tunic to fit the body and
              allow plenty of ease. Either cut a seperate front and back or in one
              piece, connected at the shoulders (the shoulders should be straight
              acroos, not shaped). If cutting the front and back in one piece,
              then lay it out folded at the shoulder line. Then cut the sleeve
              (with a straight sleeve cap) and gussets if using them. Sew the
              gussets to the sleeve, if using. Fold sleeve in half longways.
              Then measure the width of the shoulders and mark that on the body
              piece of the fabric. Lay the folded in half sleeve cap on your body
              piece and mark a straight line the length of the folded sleeve cap
              from where the shoulder line should be to the edge of the body.
              This should make a shallow "armhole" with no curve at the bottom.
              Then redraw this line adding seam allowances and curving it as it
              approaches the top (or fold) of the body piece, so that it makes a
              smooth curve over the top of the shoulder rather than a sharp angle.

              Here is an extant tunic cut sort of like that:
              http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/stlouis.html

              Here is alink for a kirtle that I find works really well for large
              people:
              http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol63.html

              when making this for large peole I frequently curve the bodice seams
              in a little after they go over the bust and shoulder blades till
              they hit the shoulder line. There is some evidence (not at this
              site, but in the book) that this was done in period. It not only
              mkes the tunics fit big people better, but makes it possible for a
              small person to were on that is extremely large and it just looks
              nicely draped rather than bulky.

              Rashid
            • borderlands15213
              Thank you, Rashid, thanks muchly. I ve been through that section of Marc Carlson s site. You know, I think I ve just finally realized that my post was
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 7, 2003
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                Thank you, Rashid, thanks muchly.
                I've been through that section of Marc Carlson's site.
                <sigh> You know, I think I've just finally realized that my post was
                very poorly written.
                Fitting's almost never a problem. I must have been expecting you all
                to read my mind, or extrapolate from Vangelista's through mine, that
                my question, which I didn't state expressly, was:
                "What, in your opinion, is the method that combines the most
                economical use of fabric and still maintains a period cut?"

                But I've thought about it, and I've decided that no matter what
                layout I use, I'm not likely to save as much as one-eighth of a yard
                per shirt or tunic, and we're not going to be doing so many pieces of
                garb for him that we'll be saving much in toto, anyway.
                Which I think was part of what you've said, yes?
                And we're in complete agreement to go for the fit. It might be
                interesting, sometime, to try the different cuts for the same garment
                for the same person, working with the same amount of fabric for each.
                Thanks again...

                Yseult



                --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "unclrashid" <unclrashid@y...> wrote:
                > --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
                > <borderlands15213@y...> wrote:
                > > He's not terribly tall, but he *is* a very large lord.
                > > 1.) Cut the front and the back wider (fuller) and make the
                > shoulder
                > > seams longer? This will drop the shoulder seam off the shoulder
                > cap,
                > > but will allow a smaller gusset.
                > > 2.) Kinda cheat? Shape the armhole more like a modern armscye,
                > > which would allow the sleeve to attach at the actual end of the
                > > shoulder, shape the sleevehead and possibly eliminate the
                > gussets?
                > > And accept some "wastage" in the cutting?
                >
                > Contrary to popular belief, some of the extant tunics of the middle
                > ages show armhole shaping. Usually somewhat shallower than a
                modern
                > armhole. Usually the sleevehead is just cut straight. It is also
                > possible to use a gusset with the sleeve in this case.
                >
                > I have also done a lot of sewing for large people and here is what
                I
                > find works best: cut the body of the tunic to fit the body and
                > allow plenty of ease. Either cut a seperate front and back or in
                one
                > piece, connected at the shoulders (the shoulders should be straight
                > acroos, not shaped). If cutting the front and back in one piece,
                > then lay it out folded at the shoulder line. Then cut the sleeve
                > (with a straight sleeve cap) and gussets if using them. Sew the
                > gussets to the sleeve, if using. Fold sleeve in half longways.
                > Then measure the width of the shoulders and mark that on the body
                > piece of the fabric. Lay the folded in half sleeve cap on your
                body
                > piece and mark a straight line the length of the folded sleeve cap
                > from where the shoulder line should be to the edge of the body.
                > This should make a shallow "armhole" with no curve at the bottom.
                > Then redraw this line adding seam allowances and curving it as it
                > approaches the top (or fold) of the body piece, so that it makes a
                > smooth curve over the top of the shoulder rather than a sharp angle.
                >
                > Here is an extant tunic cut sort of like that:
                > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/stlouis.html
                >
                > Here is alink for a kirtle that I find works really well for large
                > people:
                > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol63.html
                >
                > when making this for large peole I frequently curve the bodice
                seams
                > in a little after they go over the bust and shoulder blades till
                > they hit the shoulder line. There is some evidence (not at this
                > site, but in the book) that this was done in period. It not only
                > mkes the tunics fit big people better, but makes it possible for a
                > small person to were on that is extremely large and it just looks
                > nicely draped rather than bulky.
                >
                > Rashid
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