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Re: [SCA-Garb] re: bodice making

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  • Grazia Morgano
    ... I have suspicions that go back further. See this painting http://jessamynscloset.com/images/postspainimages/Barcelona%20Cath/BC74.jpg Look, something on
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 7, 2013
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      On Thursday, June 06, 2013 11:28:28 AM you wrote:
      > The pockets are documentable back to at
      > least the 16th century and allow me to look close to the portraits.

      I have suspicions that go back further. See this painting
      http://jessamynscloset.com/images/postspainimages/Barcelona%20Cath/BC74.jpg

      Look, something on her hip that looks suspiciously like a slit. Now, you might
      say "no, it's a bag on her hip" but take a second look--the light brown
      matches the trim on her gown's neck, and the dark red of it matches the
      undergown you can see through her side lacing. It's a trimmed slit. Why would
      she have a trimmed slit on her hip? I'm thinking 15th century Spanish pockets.
      Of course, I can't say for sure when they would have made the jump from Spain
      to Italy.

      Grazia
    • Catrijn vanden Westhende
      ... Dress slits are highly documentable by the late 14thc. (possibly earlier - outside my area of interest) across much of Europe, but they predate pockets.
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 8, 2013
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        > I have suspicions that go back further. See this painting
        > http://jessamynscloset.com/images/postspainimages/Barcelona%20Cath/BC74.jpg
        >
        > Look, something on her hip that looks suspiciously like a slit. Now, you
        > might
        > say "no, it's a bag on her hip" but take a second look--the light brown
        > matches the trim on her gown's neck, and the dark red of it matches the
        > undergown you can see through her side lacing. It's a trimmed slit. Why
        > would
        > she have a trimmed slit on her hip? I'm thinking 15th century Spanish
        > pockets.
        > Of course, I can't say for sure when they would have made the jump from
        > Spain
        > to Italy.
        >
        > Grazia
        >
        >
        Dress slits are highly documentable by the late 14thc. (possibly earlier -
        outside my area of interest) across much of Europe, but they predate
        pockets. It really is just a slit, in terms of construction. However, it
        allows you to reach under your outer dress, to a pouch that is hanging from
        a belt (also under the outer dress), where it is a bit safer. So
        functionally, sort of like a pocket, but not attached to the dress. This
        method later goes through a phase where there are a specially made pair of
        pockets that hang from a waistband, but still not attached to the dress -
        you'd probably have just one pair that you wore with everything.

        - Catrijn


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lusciousgarb
        When I suggested pockets, I meant the ones hanging from a waist band. Katerina (purple files) has a lovely page or two on them.
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 8, 2013
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          When I suggested pockets, I meant the ones hanging from a waist band.
          Katerina (purple files) has a lovely page or two on them.
          http://katerina.purplefiles.net/FlorenceFiles/FLAccessoriesSOCCACCIA.html

          Cat


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Grazia Morgano
          ... Saccoccia/pockets are the waistband ones. I wear them mundanely because I wear skirts all the time (and having only one pair is great -- ever accidentally
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 8, 2013
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            Catrijn vanden Westhende <catrijn@...> wrote:
            > So
            >functionally, sort of like a pocket, but not attached to the dress.
            >This
            >method later goes through a phase where there are a specially made pair
            >of
            >pockets that hang from a waistband, but still not attached to the dress
            >-
            >you'd probably have just one pair that you wore with everything.

            Saccoccia/pockets are the waistband ones. I wear them mundanely because I wear skirts all the time (and having only one pair is great -- ever accidentally run something through the laundry or forget it at home because it's in yesterday's garment?). They don't attach to the dress until some time after the American Civil War.

            Grazia
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