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Looking for a starting point for Umayyad dynasty garb

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  • duffykathy722
    either in Syria or later in Al-Andalusa. Have tried several books on the culture of tolerance between Christians, Jews and Moors thinking at some point they
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2013
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      either in Syria or later in Al-Andalusa. Have tried several books on the culture of tolerance between Christians, Jews and Moors thinking at some point they would discuss the kind of clothing. Only found remarks on silks. Tried bio of Isabella of Castile found a reference or two on the fact she liked the Moorish clothing and reference to her owning several caftans which isn't very helpful. I know they were influenced by the Indian courts but I certainly won't be going topless so if someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
    • cat tillotson
      my favourite two sources on line are jessamynscloset.com & dar anahita. It s my favourite period! - cat in Caldarium +++++ Innocentia nihil probat. ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 2, 2013
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        my favourite two sources on line are jessamynscloset.com & dar anahita. It's my favourite period!
        - cat in Caldarium

        +++++
        Innocentia nihil probat.

        On Feb 2, 2013, at 6:54 PM, "duffykathy722" wrote:

        > either in Syria or later in Al-Andalusa. ...if someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
        (TRIMMED BY MOD. SAVE YOUR EYEBALLS!)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Charles
        Here are some links I found by googling ummayid art . Some manuscripts and frescoes, but also ivory carvings. As would be expected, many more images of men
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 2, 2013
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          Here are some links I found by googling "ummayid art". Some manuscripts and frescoes, but also ivory carvings. As would be expected, many more images of men than women. Seems like men wore tunics and something like braies. One female dancer seems to have worn something more like late classical garb (Christian era Roman, stola and chiton kind of combo).
          http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/13.141
          http://www.atlastours.net/jordan/desertcastles.html
          http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dia&CISOPTR=9481
          http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dia&CISOPTR=9486
          http://www.discoverislamicart.org/exhibitions/ISL/the_umayyads/exhibition.php?theme=5&page=2


          I doubt very much that Indian female fashion would have spread to the other parts of the Caliphate. Most likely Indian textiles and fabric printing and weaving technology would be the greatest influence that India had on Ummayid fashions. It's also likely that fashions would have changed between the beginning and end of the caliphate because it was during this period that Islamic art started to change from being geographically dependent to culturally monolithic, while at the same time the Caliphate moved from the Middle East to Spain.

          Unfortunately, I am not aware of any significant manuscripts or collections of Ummayid visual art that would be easy to search for lots of pics of clothing in one place.

          Rashid

          --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "duffykathy722" wrote:
          >
          > either in Syria or later in Al-Andalusa. Have tried several books on the culture of tolerance between Christians, Jews and Moors thinking at some point they would discuss the kind of clothing. Only found remarks on silks. Tried bio of Isabella of Castile found a reference or two on the fact she liked the Moorish clothing and reference to her owning several caftans which isn't very helpful. I know they were influenced by the Indian courts but I certainly won't be going topless so if someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
          >
        • Dee Cadoret
          Thank you for this. I ve been trying to find information on 800 s Al-Andalus for my spouse and this has given me some ideas for another string of searches.
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 3, 2013
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            Thank you for this. I've been trying to find information on 800's
            Al-Andalus for my spouse and this has given me some ideas for another
            string of searches. Never thought to search for the Dynasty artwork.

            On 03/02/2013 1:49 AM, Charles wrote:
            > Here are some links I found by googling "ummayid art". Some manuscripts and frescoes, but also ivory carvings. As would be expected, many more images of men than women. Seems like men wore tunics and something like braies. One female dancer seems to have worn something more like late classical garb (Christian era Roman, stola and chiton kind of combo).
            >
          • Kathy Duffy
            Thank Rashid.  The image of the Qiyan dancer was surprising, the bare arm aspects even if they were slaves and entertainers.  I have found two other images
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 24, 2013
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              Thank Rashid.  The image of the Qiyan dancer was surprising, the bare arm aspects even if they were slaves and entertainers.  I have found two other images of them, one on a pillow and one from a book on the Qiyan.  I appreciate your comments about the Indian Textiles and fabric probably being the biggest influence.  Further research on my part has found some bits of al-Biruni from 463? and the interaction with India, also information I am currently plowing though in Objects of Translation about the interaction of the two cultures.  I agree that the fresco does look like the Roman chiton and stola which coincidentally mirrors the role of the qiyan and that of the Greek Hera(shoot don't have that paper handy -- but they were women entertainers like a geisha but unlikethe slave status of the quiyan.


              And to think all this research started by trying to figure out what silk Arabian garments, Isabella of Castile wore.


              ________________________________
              From: Charles <unclrashid@...>
              To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:49 AM
              Subject: [SCA-Garb] Re: Looking for a starting point for Umayyad dynasty garb


               
              Here are some links I found by googling "ummayid art".
              (Snipped by mod. Trim your posts!)

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sayyeda al-Kaslaania
              The Umayyad empire in the fifteenth century really doesn t exist like the early Umayyad Empire did. Many older Western scholars used the term Umayyad to
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 24, 2013
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                The Umayyad empire in the fifteenth century really doesn't exist like
                the early Umayyad Empire did. Many older Western scholars used the term
                "Umayyad" to describe what modern scholars now call "al-Andalus"-- the
                region of Islamic controlled Iberian peninsula, or "Islamic Spain".

                For that much later date, concurrent with Isabella of Castile, you would
                want to check out the work of Mistress Violante, I think:
                http://www.moorishmaiden.org/martin.htm

                For the earlier Middle Ages, you might want to check out the work of
                Yedida Stillman. Her theory is:

                "Over the next few hundred years, there emerged throughout the length
                and breadth of the Dar al-Islam a generally recognizable Islamic style
                of dress. There were considerable temporal and regional variations to be
                sure (as for example, in the Maghreb...) but these were within the
                parameters of a pan-Islamic mode that remained remarkably constant
                throughout the Middle Ages. In addition to the emergence of what might
                be called Islamic fashion, there developed an Islamic ideology and
                sociology of dress. Together, this distinctive fashion, it's ideology,
                and its sociology make up a system of meaning which Roland Barthes has
                dubbed a "vestimentary system." This does not include Persian clothing.

                It give you a good starting point. In the 12th century, half of an
                Egyptian woman's wardrobe was head wear. Wraps were worn in layers when
                out of the house, and tunics covered the whole body.

                Hope that helps,
                Sayyeda al-Kaslaania

                On 2/24/2013 5:06 PM, Kathy Duffy wrote:
                And to think all this research started by trying to figure out what
                silk Arabian garments, Isabella of Castile wore.
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