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Re: Archery Scoring( Long reply)

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  • ATruemark@xxx.xxx
    Greetings unto the list I have been following, with interest, the debate concerning rankings, royal rounds, period shoots and the lot. Thus far I have seen no
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 31, 1999
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      Greetings unto the list

      I have been following, with interest, the debate concerning rankings, royal
      rounds, period shoots and the lot. Thus far I have seen no posts from those
      of us fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to have achieved Ludicrous scores in
      the Royal Rounds. This is despite what I have perceived to be some
      less-than-kind remarks directed our way. Everyone is entitled to have their
      opinions, and often they serve as a spur to new thinking and positive change,
      both of which I favor. However...

      >An Tir has apparently been clueless enough to make the Ludicrous
      >Bowman an official ranking. Allegedly it carries a _Grant_. Bozos.

      This particular statement finally got to me. Yes, AnTir has made the 120+
      Royal Round average an official ranking, with the title "Ludicrous Bowman."
      No, the rank does not carry a Grant, anymore than Apprentice Archer or any
      other rank. To state this, when the veracity of the information is readily
      available, shows irresponsibility and laziness on the part of the author.
      And then to follow it with a derogatory remark that blankets an entire
      Kingdom, reduces the author to mere boorishness. Shame on you!

      The making a new rank was simply the acknowledgment that such scores could be
      accomplished. The precedent lay with the creating of the rank "Grandmaster,"
      which followed "Master," when someone demonstrated ability in the Royal Round
      equal to these designations. Nothing more, nothing less.

      I have a Grant level award, called in AnTir the Jambe de Lion, which is an
      arts and sciences award for excellence in a given endeavor. I received mine
      for excellence in archery, as measured, not only by the Royal Round, but
      combat archery, teaching, manufacture of archery related equipment, promotion
      of archery....I was also recently invited into the Order of the Grey Goose
      Shaft, AnTir's highest archery specific award, based largely (but not limited
      to), the things referenced above. Both awards were based on recognition of
      excellence, not RR scores.

      At Pennsic this year I shot with the East Kingdom Champions Team, and met
      many wonderful people. I was also, pointedly, told by Master Li Kung Lo that
      I may be good at RR's, but I had a ways to go in the styles of targets and
      venues used in the East. And you know what? He was correct. That is my new
      challenge, as are some of the (better) ideas occasioned by the current debate.

      To have consistently achieved royal round scores over 120 means exactly that
      - I have specialized a style of shooting that allows me to accomplish this.
      But it has also pushed me well beyond any limits I previously considered and
      continues to present new and higher challenges. And anyone who has ever shot
      with me knows that I strive for very high levels of competence, whether it is
      with recurve, traditional longbow, or traditional crossbow. That is what I
      like to do in my SCA archery quest.
      Rather than denigrating the effort it takes to achieve such scoring, remember
      the effort that comprises your own individual excellence and realize that we
      all are trying to be our best - whatever the standard of measurement.

      In Service,

      HL Andras Truemark, OGGS
      Ludicrous Bowman, AnTir
      (And not ashamed of it!)
    • Bob & Nancy Upson
      ... The statement says, allegedly. Look it up. I ve heard comments from credible people to that effect or I wouldn t have mentioned it at all. As for
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 31, 1999
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        > >An Tir has apparently been clueless enough to make the Ludicrous
        > >Bowman an official ranking. Allegedly it carries a _Grant_. Bozos.
        >
        > This particular statement finally got to me. Yes, AnTir has made the 120+
        > Royal Round average an official ranking, with the title "Ludicrous Bowman."
        > No, the rank does not carry a Grant, anymore than Apprentice Archer or any
        > other rank. To state this, when the veracity of the information is readily
        > available, shows irresponsibility and laziness on the part of the author.

        The statement says, "allegedly." Look it up. I've heard comments
        from credible people to that effect or I wouldn't have mentioned it at
        all. As for "irresponsibility and laziness," well Andrass, let's just
        say I'll take your comments under advisement for what they are
        worth.

        > And then to follow it with a derogatory remark that blankets an entire
        > Kingdom, reduces the author to mere boorishness. Shame on you!

        I'll stand my my assessment. If the people of An Tir -- particularly
        the archers -- are clueless enough to allow their Crown to make
        "Ludicrous Bowman" an official rank, I can't see that they have
        much of a position to throw stones.

        > The making a new rank was simply the acknowledgment that such scores could be
        > accomplished. The precedent lay with the creating of the rank "Grandmaster,"
        > which followed "Master," when someone demonstrated ability in the Royal Round
        > equal to these designations. Nothing more, nothing less.

        So find a better name. "Ludicrous" was meant as a joke.
        Adopting it as "official" demonstrates, at best, a lack of imagination.

        > I have a Grant level award, called in AnTir the Jambe de Lion, which is an
        > arts and sciences award for excellence in a given endeavor. I received mine
        > for excellence in archery, as measured, not only by the Royal Round, but
        > combat archery, teaching, manufacture of archery related equipment, promotion
        > of archery....I was also recently invited into the Order of the Grey Goose
        > Shaft, AnTir's highest archery specific award, based largely (but not limited
        > to), the things referenced above. Both awards were based on recognition of
        > excellence, not RR scores.

        You're too humble, Andrass, don't forget your proposal for An Tir
        Rangers. I'm told that you, and nobody else, would instantly
        qualify if such a proposal was adopted.

        > At Pennsic this year I shot with the East Kingdom Champions Team, and met

        Thank heavens I didn't this year. Your brilliance might have been a
        distraction. It's a shame that politics encourages Kings to invite
        out-kingdom archers onto the team.

        > Rather than denigrating the effort it takes to achieve such scoring, remember
        > the effort that comprises your own individual excellence and realize that we
        > all are trying to be our best - whatever the standard of measurement.

        I don't recall ever denigrating your effort or any other LB's. I believe
        I clearly denigrated your _kingdom_ for losing sight of the SCA's
        mandate and by being distracted by mundane paper punching.

        Macsen
      • Yaakov or Ralph
        Greetings to all on this list, Well let me be next Ludicrous to make comments on the ranking system of archery and how an archer is perceived. This will
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 31, 1999
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          Greetings to all on this list,

          Well let me be next Ludicrous to make comments on the ranking system of
          archery and how an archer is perceived. This will strictly be my opinion and
          lot looking for heated debate.

          For these of you who don't know me, I am Lord Yaakov Avrham ben Obadiah,
          Ludicrous Bowman of the Knowne World that lives in the Kingdom of the East
          in the Barony of the Bridge. I have been evolved as an archer for 3 years
          now with the SCA and I had set some goals for myself. The day I made Master
          Bowman was one of the most honored days to remember till I went to Pennsic
          that year. That war season I made Grand Master and was awarded at Pennsic
          XXVII in East Kingdom court. What does all this mean, I can shoot a target
          real good and then there is always the rank of Ludicrous Bowman.

          This past Pennsic I was given the honor of being presented in Great Court.
          It was a very emotional experience. I was standing with the good folks whom
          I call Peers. To have the opportunity to shoot with such Lords of the Knowne
          World would only make me a better archer. During the Champions shoot I had
          the chance to shoot against 3 other Ludicrous Bowman and to me it wasn't
          about winning or loosing.

          Everyone that competes in any archery tournament is a champion in my eyes.
          You are promoting the art and skill that you love. But one of things that I
          have learned of the years, is to be calm and stay relaxed and you will
          perform at your best. So I go in to shoot with the who cares about winning
          attitude. If someone comes to me and says it was fun to shoot with you,
          that's all the thanks I need to be a winner. So what does all this lead to,
          is simple really.

          There are two types of archers, there are target archers and the tournament
          archers. There are a few that excel at both but those are a rare breed. To
          rank a target archer is easy, look at the royal round list for the Kingdom.
          I feel that the list that is published needs to be expanded to state what
          type bow is being used for that average. I would like to see it broken down
          this way.

          For hand bowman
          Rank, SCA Name, Location, Long Bow, Recurve, Adv.

          For crossbowmen
          Rank, SCA Name, Location, Sited (y/n), Adv.

          Its more work for the Kingdom score keeper than maybe they want. To see this
          sort of list gives a better perspective on how people are doing at royal
          rounds. You will also see some of us that would be on the list 2 or 3 times.
          I know a few people that shoot 3 royal rounds, each with a different bow
          (I'm guilty). So this leads us to those whom compete, and think that is all
          of us.

          I have seen some archers that do real well at shoots at smaller events and
          don't do as well at a high profiled one. This doesn't mean, there not
          competitive, they are. To shoot well at a high profile shoot takes
          experience and learning from the past events. I compete at K&Q Archery and
          make the final, the pressure is there and this year I did well but never
          achieved the end result. I made an error that I haven't done in a long
          while, I treated the final round as a speed shoot and blew it. It was still
          a fun shoot and I learned from it. One thing I am guilty of far to much is
          to have a liquid with me so I don't dehydrate.

          Being prepared for the shoot is the most important part of being an archer
          to me and I do a poor job sometimes. I still haven't learned from my
          mistakes but I am getting better. So there is a lot here that I had to say,
          some of topic that I felt relevant, most how I feel about the ranking
          system. I closing thought, I like the fact that the Ludicrous isn't an
          official rank with the exception of An Tir and hope it stays that way.

          Lord Yaakov Avraham ben Obadiah
          (Silly) Ludicrous Bowman of the Knowne World
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