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Re: [SCA-Archery] Why six arrows?

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  • Chad and Erin Wilson
    From: Jack Bradley ... I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a 6-toed archer. -Caedmon
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
      From: "Jack Bradley" <ragnar@...>
      > I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot

      I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a
      6-toed archer.

      -Caedmon
    • abluehood
      The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its association with a dozen. Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally sold in dozens, and IIRC they
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
        The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
        association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
        sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
        as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
        among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
        of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
        Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
        carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
        that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then.

        Target shooting with a half dozen arrows at a time would keep the
        rest of an archer's dozen in reserve in case of loss or breakage. It
        certainly dates from the time of Prince's Reckoning, about 1787.
        It's my opinion that Prince's Reckoning is much older than that date
        and the Prince of Wales simply gave his royal approval to a already
        established system of rounds, ends and scoring.

        The word "end" does come from having targets setup on both ends of
        the field. It would save a lot of walking to be able to retrive
        arrows and shoot almost immediately without going all the way back to
        the original shooting line. It would be a little difficult on the
        spectators and there might be some safety issues.

        And BTW, I don't think Ascham ever mentioned any specific archery
        rounds or scoring menthods. It would have made research so much
        simpler if he did.

        Also BTW, I see my AoA has become a subject on this list. I'd like
        to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and congratulations. Now
        let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
        any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
        seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...

        In service...
        -Allan Bluehood-

        --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Carolus Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@j...> wrote:
        > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at
        least
        > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it.
        Perhaps Lord
        > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
        >
        > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
        > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the
        Society. He
        > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
        > congratulations.
        >
        > In service to the dream
        > Carolus von Eulenhorst
        > eulenhorst@j...
        >
      • Mike O'Toole
        ... I don t mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule s The Mary Rose) list arrows as in sheaves (I
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
          abluehood wrote:

          > The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
          > association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
          > sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
          > as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
          > among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
          > of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
          > Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
          > carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
          > that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then...


          I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for
          the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as in
          sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers used
          to protect the feathers)

          As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe only
          require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with which to
          practice.


          of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
          fogged my brain a little! :-)

          Michael O'Byrne


          --
          mike.otoole@...
          ---
          "An archer does not aim, he kills."
          Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
          Now ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
            Now
            > let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
            > any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
            > seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...
            >
            > In service...
            > -Allan Bluehood-

            Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest
            outlaw. Congratulations.

            James Cunningham
          • abluehood
            Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however, is something different.
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
              Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I
              enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however,
              is something different. It just seems to me that a sheaf of 24 would
              still indicate counting by the dozen, in this case two dozen. And
              also remember that I said it was traditional. In medieval England
              tradition did not have the weight of law.

              I'd like to point out that practice arrows and issue grade war
              arrows were likely very different. Practice arrows often had a point
              more like a target point rather than the broadhead (for hunting) or
              bodkin war points. IIRC (okay, correct me if I'm wrong again) it was
              spelled out in law that anyone living in the King's forests were to
              have blunt arrows for practice, so they couldn't hunt the King's deer.
              Thus have I seen...
              -Allan Bluehood-


              --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Mike O'Toole <mike.otoole@s...> wrote:
              >
              > I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I
              have for
              > the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as
              in
              > sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers
              used
              > to protect the feathers)
              >
              > As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe
              only
              > require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with
              which to
              > practice.
              >
              >
              > of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
              > fogged my brain a little! :-)
              >
              > Michael O'Byrne
              >
              >
              > --
              > mike.otoole@s...
              > ---
              > "An archer does not aim, he kills."
              > Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
            • conradvonzollern
              ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:

                "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                forest outlaw. Congratulations.

                James Cunningham"

                **********************************************************************
                James,

                Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                long enough to wait for anything, including true love.

                Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                many feet?

                ;0)

                Conrad von Zollern
              • Jack Bradley
                Hummm Two Score and Five One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem R
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                  Hummm Two Score and Five
                  One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
                  R

                  conradvonzollern wrote:

                  > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                  > forest outlaw. Congratulations.
                  >
                  > James Cunningham"
                  >
                  > **********************************************************************
                  > James,
                  >
                  > Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                  > long enough to wait for anything, including true love.
                  >
                  > Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                  > many feet?
                  >
                  > ;0)
                  >
                  > Conrad von Zollern
                  >
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                • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                  OK OK a score and five.. Two Score and five sounded much more poetic. James Cunningham
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                    OK>OK a score and five.."Two Score and five" sounded much more poetic.

                    James Cunningham
                    > Hummm Two Score and Five
                    > One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
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