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Re: [SCA-Archery] Why six arrows?

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  • Jack Bradley
    I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot Ragnar
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
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      I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot
      Ragnar
    • Chad and Erin Wilson
      From: Jack Bradley ... I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a 6-toed archer. -Caedmon
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
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        From: "Jack Bradley" <ragnar@...>
        > I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot

        I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a
        6-toed archer.

        -Caedmon
      • Bruce R. Gordon
        Greetings erm... He only now is getting an AoA after 25 years of service?!? This is one of those interkingdom anthropology moments, isn t it... Bemusedly;
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
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          Greetings
          erm... He only now is getting an AoA after 25 years of service?!? This is
          one of those interkingdom anthropology moments, isn't it...

          Bemusedly;
          Nigel (Midrealm)

          Carolus Eulenhorst wrote:

          > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at least
          > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it. Perhaps Lord
          > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
          >
          > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
          > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the Society. He
          > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
          > congratulations.
          >
          > In service to the dream
          > Carolus von Eulenhorst
          > eulenhorst@...
          >
          > On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:55:28 -0400 "Chad and Erin Wilson"
          > <chaderin@...> writes:
          >
          >> In the Midrealm Royal Round, we shoot 6 arrows to and end. Many
          >> things in
          >> archery contests are done in 6's. Is there a historical precedence
          >> for this or
          >> just an SCA convention handed down from generation to generation?
          >>
          >> -Caedmon
          >
          >
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        • abluehood
          The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its association with a dozen. Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally sold in dozens, and IIRC they
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
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            The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
            association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
            sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
            as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
            among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
            of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
            Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
            carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
            that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then.

            Target shooting with a half dozen arrows at a time would keep the
            rest of an archer's dozen in reserve in case of loss or breakage. It
            certainly dates from the time of Prince's Reckoning, about 1787.
            It's my opinion that Prince's Reckoning is much older than that date
            and the Prince of Wales simply gave his royal approval to a already
            established system of rounds, ends and scoring.

            The word "end" does come from having targets setup on both ends of
            the field. It would save a lot of walking to be able to retrive
            arrows and shoot almost immediately without going all the way back to
            the original shooting line. It would be a little difficult on the
            spectators and there might be some safety issues.

            And BTW, I don't think Ascham ever mentioned any specific archery
            rounds or scoring menthods. It would have made research so much
            simpler if he did.

            Also BTW, I see my AoA has become a subject on this list. I'd like
            to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and congratulations. Now
            let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
            any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
            seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...

            In service...
            -Allan Bluehood-

            --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Carolus Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@j...> wrote:
            > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at
            least
            > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it.
            Perhaps Lord
            > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
            >
            > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
            > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the
            Society. He
            > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
            > congratulations.
            >
            > In service to the dream
            > Carolus von Eulenhorst
            > eulenhorst@j...
            >
          • Mike O'Toole
            ... I don t mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule s The Mary Rose) list arrows as in sheaves (I
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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              abluehood wrote:

              > The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
              > association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
              > sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
              > as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
              > among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
              > of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
              > Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
              > carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
              > that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then...


              I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for
              the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as in
              sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers used
              to protect the feathers)

              As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe only
              require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with which to
              practice.


              of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
              fogged my brain a little! :-)

              Michael O'Byrne


              --
              mike.otoole@...
              ---
              "An archer does not aim, he kills."
              Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
            • James W. Pratt, Jr.
              Now ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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                Now
                > let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
                > any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
                > seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...
                >
                > In service...
                > -Allan Bluehood-

                Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest
                outlaw. Congratulations.

                James Cunningham
              • abluehood
                Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however, is something different.
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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                  Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I
                  enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however,
                  is something different. It just seems to me that a sheaf of 24 would
                  still indicate counting by the dozen, in this case two dozen. And
                  also remember that I said it was traditional. In medieval England
                  tradition did not have the weight of law.

                  I'd like to point out that practice arrows and issue grade war
                  arrows were likely very different. Practice arrows often had a point
                  more like a target point rather than the broadhead (for hunting) or
                  bodkin war points. IIRC (okay, correct me if I'm wrong again) it was
                  spelled out in law that anyone living in the King's forests were to
                  have blunt arrows for practice, so they couldn't hunt the King's deer.
                  Thus have I seen...
                  -Allan Bluehood-


                  --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Mike O'Toole <mike.otoole@s...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I
                  have for
                  > the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as
                  in
                  > sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers
                  used
                  > to protect the feathers)
                  >
                  > As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe
                  only
                  > require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with
                  which to
                  > practice.
                  >
                  >
                  > of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
                  > fogged my brain a little! :-)
                  >
                  > Michael O'Byrne
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > mike.otoole@s...
                  > ---
                  > "An archer does not aim, he kills."
                  > Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
                • conradvonzollern
                  ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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                    --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:

                    "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                    forest outlaw. Congratulations.

                    James Cunningham"

                    **********************************************************************
                    James,

                    Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                    long enough to wait for anything, including true love.

                    Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                    many feet?

                    ;0)

                    Conrad von Zollern
                  • Jack Bradley
                    Hummm Two Score and Five One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem R
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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                      Hummm Two Score and Five
                      One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
                      R

                      conradvonzollern wrote:

                      > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:
                      >
                      > "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                      > forest outlaw. Congratulations.
                      >
                      > James Cunningham"
                      >
                      > **********************************************************************
                      > James,
                      >
                      > Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                      > long enough to wait for anything, including true love.
                      >
                      > Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                      > many feet?
                      >
                      > ;0)
                      >
                      > Conrad von Zollern
                      >
                      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                      > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                      >
                      >
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                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                      OK OK a score and five.. Two Score and five sounded much more poetic. James Cunningham
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
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                        OK>OK a score and five.."Two Score and five" sounded much more poetic.

                        James Cunningham
                        > Hummm Two Score and Five
                        > One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
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