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RE: [SCA-Archery] Why six arrows?

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  • Guy Taylor
    One of the highpoints of my day at the event yesterday was seeing Alan get called up the aisle. In the times that I ve dealt with Alan Bluehood he s always
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
      One of the highpoints of my day at the event yesterday was seeing Alan get
      called up the aisle. In the times that I've dealt with Alan Bluehood he's
      always been friendly, helpful, and a pleasure to be around; a truly fine
      example for me to strive for.
      I congratulate him on both his devotion and the recognition of it thereof.

      Taillear


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Carolus Eulenhorst [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
      > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:06 AM
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Why six arrows?
      >
      >
      > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at least
      > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it. Perhaps Lord
      > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
      >
      > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
      > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the Society. He
      > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
      > congratulations.
      >
      > In service to the dream
      > Carolus von Eulenhorst
      > eulenhorst@...
    • Jack Bradley
      I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot Ragnar
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
        I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot
        Ragnar
      • Chad and Erin Wilson
        From: Jack Bradley ... I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a 6-toed archer. -Caedmon
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
          From: "Jack Bradley" <ragnar@...>
          > I always thought it was one arrow for each toe on your foot

          I thought that at first, Ragnar, but then I realized that I have never met a
          6-toed archer.

          -Caedmon
        • Bruce R. Gordon
          Greetings erm... He only now is getting an AoA after 25 years of service?!? This is one of those interkingdom anthropology moments, isn t it... Bemusedly;
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
            Greetings
            erm... He only now is getting an AoA after 25 years of service?!? This is
            one of those interkingdom anthropology moments, isn't it...

            Bemusedly;
            Nigel (Midrealm)

            Carolus Eulenhorst wrote:

            > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at least
            > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it. Perhaps Lord
            > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
            >
            > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
            > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the Society. He
            > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
            > congratulations.
            >
            > In service to the dream
            > Carolus von Eulenhorst
            > eulenhorst@...
            >
            > On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:55:28 -0400 "Chad and Erin Wilson"
            > <chaderin@...> writes:
            >
            >> In the Midrealm Royal Round, we shoot 6 arrows to and end. Many
            >> things in
            >> archery contests are done in 6's. Is there a historical precedence
            >> for this or
            >> just an SCA convention handed down from generation to generation?
            >>
            >> -Caedmon
            >
            >
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          • abluehood
            The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its association with a dozen. Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally sold in dozens, and IIRC they
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2002
              The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
              association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
              sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
              as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
              among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
              of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
              Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
              carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
              that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then.

              Target shooting with a half dozen arrows at a time would keep the
              rest of an archer's dozen in reserve in case of loss or breakage. It
              certainly dates from the time of Prince's Reckoning, about 1787.
              It's my opinion that Prince's Reckoning is much older than that date
              and the Prince of Wales simply gave his royal approval to a already
              established system of rounds, ends and scoring.

              The word "end" does come from having targets setup on both ends of
              the field. It would save a lot of walking to be able to retrive
              arrows and shoot almost immediately without going all the way back to
              the original shooting line. It would be a little difficult on the
              spectators and there might be some safety issues.

              And BTW, I don't think Ascham ever mentioned any specific archery
              rounds or scoring menthods. It would have made research so much
              simpler if he did.

              Also BTW, I see my AoA has become a subject on this list. I'd like
              to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and congratulations. Now
              let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
              any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
              seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...

              In service...
              -Allan Bluehood-

              --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Carolus Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@j...> wrote:
              > I don't have an answer to this but I do know that it dates from at
              least
              > the early 19th century. The York and other rounds used it.
              Perhaps Lord
              > Alan Bluehood can shed some light on this from his researches.
              >
              > An while I'm bringing up his name, Alan Received his AoA at Caid's
              > Queen's Champion Archery Championship after 25 years in the
              Society. He
              > has served us well in many capacities and deserves hearty
              > congratulations.
              >
              > In service to the dream
              > Carolus von Eulenhorst
              > eulenhorst@j...
              >
            • Mike O'Toole
              ... I don t mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule s The Mary Rose) list arrows as in sheaves (I
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                abluehood wrote:

                > The number six applied to arrows seems to be rooted in its
                > association with a "dozen." Just like eggs, arrows are traditionally
                > sold in dozens, and IIRC they were ordered and inventoried in dozens
                > as far back as the hundred year's war. (I apologize to the Scottish
                > among us in advance for the next statement.) There's the old saying
                > of English archers that dates back to about the battle of
                > Bannockburn: (or was it another battle?) "every English archer
                > carries two dozen Scots under his belt." This would indicate to me
                > that archers counted their arrows by the dozen back then...


                I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I have for
                the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as in
                sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers used
                to protect the feathers)

                As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe only
                require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with which to
                practice.


                of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
                fogged my brain a little! :-)

                Michael O'Byrne


                --
                mike.otoole@...
                ---
                "An archer does not aim, he kills."
                Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                Now ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                  Now
                  > let me make it known that I just couldn't hide from their Majesties
                  > any longer, so now I have to get used to this "Lord" thing. But it
                  > seems kind of highfalutin for a old forest outlaw...
                  >
                  > In service...
                  > -Allan Bluehood-

                  Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest
                  outlaw. Congratulations.

                  James Cunningham
                • abluehood
                  Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however, is something different.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                    Please, by all means contradict me when I get my facts wrong. I
                    enjoy being able to expand my knowledge base. My opinion, however,
                    is something different. It just seems to me that a sheaf of 24 would
                    still indicate counting by the dozen, in this case two dozen. And
                    also remember that I said it was traditional. In medieval England
                    tradition did not have the weight of law.

                    I'd like to point out that practice arrows and issue grade war
                    arrows were likely very different. Practice arrows often had a point
                    more like a target point rather than the broadhead (for hunting) or
                    bodkin war points. IIRC (okay, correct me if I'm wrong again) it was
                    spelled out in law that anyone living in the King's forests were to
                    have blunt arrows for practice, so they couldn't hunt the King's deer.
                    Thus have I seen...
                    -Allan Bluehood-


                    --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Mike O'Toole <mike.otoole@s...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't mean to contradict you but the partial equipment list I
                    have for
                    > the Mary Rose (from Margaret Rule's The Mary Rose) list arrows as
                    in
                    > sheaves (I count 24 per sheaf from the holes in the leather spacers
                    used
                    > to protect the feathers)
                    >
                    > As well from the English statutes on archery practice I believe
                    only
                    > require every freeman (or yeoman) to own 2 or three arrows with
                    which to
                    > practice.
                    >
                    >
                    > of course it being about 2 minutes to five in the morning may have
                    > fogged my brain a little! :-)
                    >
                    > Michael O'Byrne
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > mike.otoole@s...
                    > ---
                    > "An archer does not aim, he kills."
                    > Bernard Cornwell, Harlequin
                  • conradvonzollern
                    ... Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a forest outlaw. Congratulations. James Cunningham
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                      --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:

                      "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                      forest outlaw. Congratulations.

                      James Cunningham"

                      **********************************************************************
                      James,

                      Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                      long enough to wait for anything, including true love.

                      Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                      many feet?

                      ;0)

                      Conrad von Zollern
                    • Jack Bradley
                      Hummm Two Score and Five One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem R
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                        Hummm Two Score and Five
                        One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
                        R

                        conradvonzollern wrote:

                        > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@f...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "Two Score and Five is a long time to wait for a pardon, even for a
                        > forest outlaw. Congratulations.
                        >
                        > James Cunningham"
                        >
                        > **********************************************************************
                        > James,
                        >
                        > Two score and five is a bit longer than 25 years... Which is plenty
                        > long enough to wait for anything, including true love.
                        >
                        > Think about it... or have Ragnar count appendages... 6 toes times how
                        > many feet?
                        >
                        > ;0)
                        >
                        > Conrad von Zollern
                        >
                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        >
                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        >
                        >
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                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                        OK OK a score and five.. Two Score and five sounded much more poetic. James Cunningham
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 2, 2002
                          OK>OK a score and five.."Two Score and five" sounded much more poetic.

                          James Cunningham
                          > Hummm Two Score and Five
                          > One Two Three More Much more aaaaa 6 no problem
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