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IKAC scores updated - season ended 1 December

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  • detomamd@yahoo.com
    Greetings from Lorenzo il Confuso, Keeper of the IKAC I have updated the Top Scores page on the web site ( http://www.detommaso.org/ikac ) with all the scores
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 4, 2001
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      Greetings from Lorenzo il Confuso, Keeper of the IKAC

      I have updated the Top Scores page on the web site (
      http://www.detommaso.org/ikac ) with all the scores that I have
      received through today. The IKAC season closed 1 December. I will post
      the final scores after 31 December, in case there are reports that
      haven't been sent in yet. If you know of Marshals that have yet to
      send in scores for IKAC shoots held on or before 1 December, please
      encourage them to send them in as soon as possible. Also, please take
      a moment to review the Top Scores page on the web site to make sure
      that your top score is listed. If not, please send me an email (
      ikac@... ) as soon as possible. There will be no corrections
      to the scores after the final report is issued in early January.

      PLEASE NOTE THAT NEXT YEAR, THE IKAC SEASON WILL START ON 1 FEBRUARY,
      which will cover all activities at Estrella and Gulf Wars. Please help
      me out by telling as many archers as possible. Also, there will be
      several changes in the rules for next year, including:

      - shorter distances for the IKCAC
      - a Children's devision for the IKAC
      - the Period Crossbow division will be scored like the other
      divisions (i.e. the average of the top three archers for each Kingdom,
      as opposed to the top three archers overall winning the division)
      - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
      IKAC/IKCAC
      - overall, the rules will be streamlined and clarified.

      Thank you for your comments and suggestions throughout the year.
      Please keep them coming. I will post the new rules after 31 December
      on the web site and the mailing lists, and they are always available
      by request by emailing me at ikac@.... If you have any
      questions, please let me know.

      Finally, thank you for your participation in this year's IKAC/IKCAC. I
      will have final numbers after 31 December, but the number of archers,
      groups and Kingdoms represented was quite astounding. It really shows
      the health and enthusiasm of the SCA archery community.

      In service,
      - Lorenzo
    • godwinthearcher
      ... -snip- ... Lorenzo, If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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        --- In SCA-Archery@y..., detomamd@y... wrote:
        > Greetings from Lorenzo il Confuso, Keeper of the IKAC
        -snip-

        > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
        > IKAC/IKCAC

        Lorenzo,

        If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
        in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
        this different for archery?

        Or, I hope, are you saying that people can shoot the IKAC/IKCAC, but
        unless a member, their scores are not noted?

        Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.

        Please explain.

        YIS,
        Godwin
      • Lewis Tanzos
        ... It s not, because the SCA does not require membership for any of that. Your local kingdom might, but the SCA itself certainly does not. - Istvan
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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          > If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
          > in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
          > this different for archery?

          It's not, because the SCA does not require membership for any of that.
          Your local kingdom might, but the SCA itself certainly does not.

          - Istvan
        • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
          ... Godwin, I fear you are slightly misinformed. First of all there is the fact that, unless your local kingdom places this restriction, which I would doubt,
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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            > > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
            > > IKAC/IKCAC
            >
            >If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
            >in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
            >this different for archery?

            Godwin, I fear you are slightly misinformed.

            First of all there is the fact that, unless your local kingdom places this
            restriction, which I would doubt, there is NO requirement for membership to
            be able to do archery, to submit Royal Round scores, to compete in an
            archery tournament, etc.

            The IKAC was 'different' in that sense, and is a discouraging factor to new
            archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to come to a line
            where people are shooting an IKAC and want to join in, but are told that
            they are not allowed, because they are not a member.

            Secondly, the SCA DOESN'T require a membership to hardsuit fight. Some
            local kingdoms do, many do not. All the SCA requires is a waiver to do
            hardsuit ... that can be handled by either HAVING a membership, or by
            signing a waiver each time you go to fight.

            >Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.

            I personally take supporting the SCA through getting more people interested
            and active very seriously.

            Siegfried

            _________________________________________________________________________
            Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
            Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
          • Harry Bilings
            Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight, authorized yes but member I have not seen. plachoya insignificant archer Ravensfort, Ansteorra ...
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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              Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight, authorized yes
              but member I have not seen.
              plachoya
              insignificant archer
              Ravensfort, Ansteorra



              >From: "godwinthearcher" <Godwin@...>
              >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: IKAC scores updated - season ended 1 December
              >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:39:33 -0000
              >
              >--- In SCA-Archery@y..., detomamd@y... wrote:
              > > Greetings from Lorenzo il Confuso, Keeper of the IKAC
              >-snip-
              >
              > > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
              > > IKAC/IKCAC
              >
              >Lorenzo,
              >
              >If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
              >in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
              >this different for archery?
              >
              >Or, I hope, are you saying that people can shoot the IKAC/IKCAC, but
              >unless a member, their scores are not noted?
              >
              >Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.
              >
              >Please explain.
              >
              >YIS,
              >Godwin
              >

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            • Sheri L Rees
              You do not need to be a member to fight. But without authorization we ll only let you fight long enough to get an authorization card. Anything else defeats
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                You do not need to be a member to fight. But without authorization we'll
                only let you fight long enough to get an authorization card. Anything else
                defeats the purposes of the authorizations and liability insurance we have.

                But back to the original statement of Lorenzo's. I have issue with
                non-members getting the benefits of membership. I do not see what the
                problem is with not allowing non-members to get prizes at the end of the
                year. Let them shoot, their scores just don't count for anything. If they
                want to change that, associate membership is only $20 or $10 if they can tag
                in as someone's family. If they can afford to go to the events and get the
                archery equipment to support their habit, then they can afford membership.

                A direst quote from our current on-line rules:
                Any person may shoot and send in scores in the Royal Rounds. However, to be
                eligible for the medallions for the top ten at the end of each year you must
                be a member (any type) of the S.C.A.

                Sayyidda Shadhra Aliya
                Baronnial Archer & Archery Champion - Madrone
                Kingdom of An Tir

                hanhebin wrote:

                > > Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight,
                > > authorized yes but member I have not seen.
                >
                > If fighter practice in held in a public park where the space is not
                > reserved there is no way anybody can stop an unauthrized, non-SCA
                > member from fighting.
                >
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              • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                ... However, that is for YOUR kingdom. In many kingdoms (Atlantia for example), there is no membership requirement to be ranked in the Royal Rounds, to receive
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                  At 07:42 PM 12/5/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                  >A direst quote from our current on-line rules:
                  >Any person may shoot and send in scores in the Royal Rounds. However, to be
                  >eligible for the medallions for the top ten at the end of each year you must
                  >be a member (any type) of the S.C.A.

                  However, that is for YOUR kingdom.

                  In many kingdoms (Atlantia for example), there is no membership requirement
                  to be ranked in the Royal Rounds, to receive awards for archery, etc.

                  One reason for why the IKAC is not held that often in Atlantia is for that
                  reason. If you let people shoot Royal Rounds, they are doing something
                  that 'counts'. If you run an IKAC, and they aren't a member, then they
                  aren't 'counting' ... so why shoot an IKAC, go back and shoot more Royal
                  Rounds.

                  In Kingdoms that do not have any membership requirements for
                  shooting/ranking/awarding, having requirements on the IKAC doesn't
                  encourage more people to become members, it encourages more marshals to not
                  run IKAC's, and just run Royal Rounds instead.

                  Realize that the IKAC is a Society wide thing ... because of that, it
                  should cater to the lowest common demonimator - similar to the Society
                  heavy weapons rules, which give very low minimums, don't require a
                  membership, etc.

                  Now, for your own purposes, nothing stops your own Kingdom from passing
                  their own law stating that noone within the Kingdom shall submit an IKAC
                  score that doesn't have a membership. That is within the power of your
                  King, as it only restricts farther, it doesn't break the rules of the
                  IKAC. Similar situation in Atlantia where we were instructed not to shoot
                  the IKCAC with combat arrows that would otherwise be illegal in the
                  Kingdom, to only use Atlantian approved arrows. This doesn't break the
                  rules of the IKCAC, just our kingdom restricting what we will do within the
                  competition.

                  So feel free to have your kingdom restrict those who submit IKAC scores ...
                  but please let the 'extra restriction' that is upon it for us
                  'non-membership' kingdoms be lifted. To each their own.

                  In pleasant service,
                  Siegfried



                  _________________________________________________________________________
                  Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                  Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
                • Harry Bilings
                  OPK my understanding of fighter practice is that you do not have to be member to practice how ever the MiC should be aware of who is out there and if they
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                    OPK my understanding of fighter "practice" is that you do not have to be
                    member to "practice" how ever the MiC should be aware of who is out there
                    and if they are new, strangers, or old participants, and have the necessary
                    waiver on hand to be signed.

                    insignificant archer
                    Ravensfort, Ansteorra



                    >From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
                    >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: IKAC scores updated - season ended 1 December
                    >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:04:59 -0000
                    >
                    > > Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight,
                    > > authorized yes but member I have not seen.
                    >
                    >If fighter practice in held in a public park where the space is not
                    >reserved there is no way anybody can stop an unauthrized, non-SCA
                    >member from fighting.
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                    >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                  • Alan MacNeill
                    Well, it s part of the ongoing, and yet never likely to end Tithing to Milpitas issue. Many folks feel that being a member of the SCA means much more than
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                      Well, it's part of the ongoing, and yet never likely to end "Tithing to Milpitas" issue.

                      Many folks feel that "being a member of the SCA" means much more than just sending $20 to California on an annual basis. Volunteering at events, serving your Kingdom, cooking at feast, doing the dishes, calling folks to let them know the gather has been moved, those things make a member, in my mind.

                      I am a paid member of the S.C.A. Inc, as I am an officer of my local group (and soon to be a Kingdom level Deputy officer), but that is only because it is required by the Corporate rules.

                      Most members of the SCA will never encounter anything from the S.C.A., Inc. that couldn't be produced just as efficiently on a local scale. Kingdom newsletters? Produced completely in your Kingdom, yep Corporate pays the postage, but that's all, and could be done locally easily. Rules of the List? Gee...each Kingdom already modifies them dramatically, why not just take responsibility altogether? Liability insurance? Check it out, the liability insurance covers the S.C.A. inc more than it covers you personally. My homeowner's policy has a rider giving me Liability coverage that's far greater than that given by my S.C.A. Inc membership, and it covers theft from my house too!

                      In the original organizational documents of the SCA, "Member" was defined as anyone who participates. You didn't have to pay dime one. That's why many folks have an issue with Pay-to-Play.

                      Gorm of Berra

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Sheri L Rees <s.l.rees@...>
                      > But back to the original statement of Lorenzo's. I have issue with
                      > non-members getting the benefits of membership. I do not see what the
                      > problem is with not allowing non-members to get prizes at the end of the
                      > year. Let them shoot, their scores just don't count for anything. If they
                      > want to change that, associate membership is only $20 or $10 if they can tag
                      > in as someone's family. If they can afford to go to the events and get the
                      > archery equipment to support their habit, then they can afford membership.
                      > Sayyidda Shadhra Aliya
                      > Baronnial Archer & Archery Champion - Madrone
                      > Kingdom of An Tir

                      --
                    • eulenhorst@juno.com
                      Godwin, Not all areas of the SCA require membership to play, only a signed waiver and, many times, a nonmember surcharge to the fees. While I also strongly
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                        Godwin,
                        Not all areas of the SCA require membership to play, only a signed waiver
                        and, many times, a nonmember surcharge to the fees. While I also
                        strongly support the concept of formal membership, I also support our
                        tradition from the formation of the SCA that membership is the choice of
                        the individual. For some things, like holding office, membership needs
                        to be required as the SCA as a whole takes the responsibility of
                        providing insurance and legal protection. For others, like simply
                        participating, it is not necessary. Additionally, many members in
                        foreign countries join their local organizations (needed for legal
                        reasons in their countries) and not the SCA, Inc in the US. We should
                        not shut them out of the experience of participating in the IKAC/IKCAC.
                        This may not affect your area but kingdoms such as An Tir, Caid and West
                        which have memberships outside the US are affected.

                        In service to the dream,
                        Carolus von Eulenhorst
                        eulenhorst@...

                        On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:39:33 -0000 "godwinthearcher" <Godwin@...>
                        writes:
                        > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., detomamd@y... wrote:
                        > > Greetings from Lorenzo il Confuso, Keeper of the IKAC
                        > -snip-
                        >
                        > > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
                        > > IKAC/IKCAC
                        >
                        > Lorenzo,
                        >
                        > If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to
                        > participate
                        > in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why
                        > is
                        > this different for archery?
                        >
                        > Or, I hope, are you saying that people can shoot the IKAC/IKCAC, but
                        >
                        > unless a member, their scores are not noted?
                        >
                        > Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.
                        >
                        > Please explain.
                        >
                        > YIS,
                        > Godwin
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                      • wyvern@megahits.com
                        ... But the SCA *doesn t* require membership for anything but serving as an officer. =) ... Paid membership in the SCA is all nice, warm, fuzzy, and all, but
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                          > > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
                          > > IKAC/IKCAC

                          > If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
                          > in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
                          > this different for archery?

                          But the SCA *doesn't* require membership for anything but serving
                          as an officer. =)

                          > Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.

                          Paid membership in the SCA is all nice, warm, fuzzy, and all, but
                          it's essentially just a magazine subscription. =>

                          YIS,
                          Macsen
                          (sometimes a paid member, sometimes not)
                        • wyvern@megahits.com
                          ... That s a kingdom rule -- not the SCA s. Reasons for not holding SCA membership are many and varie4. The long and short of it is that many people have
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                            > A direst quote from our current on-line rules:
                            > Any person may shoot and send in scores in the Royal Rounds. However,
                            > to be eligible for the medallions for the top ten at the end of each
                            > year you must be a member (any type) of the S.C.A.

                            That's a kingdom rule -- not the SCA's. Reasons for not holding
                            SCA membership are many and varie4. The long and short of it is
                            that many people have political issues with the operations of the
                            SCA at the corporate level and would rather support their local
                            groups than what is essentially a magazine subscription service
                            running in California.

                            It's not a simple issue. =)

                            YIS,
                            Macsen
                          • eulenhorst@juno.com
                            Actually we can t prevent them from watching/attending but we can prevent them from fighting. Just as any other sports organization can say you have to be
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                              Actually we can't prevent them from watching/attending but we can prevent
                              them from fighting. Just as any other sports organization can say you
                              have to be part of the organization to play in their game.

                              In service to the dream,
                              Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              eulenhorst@...

                              On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:04:59 -0000 "hanhebin" <hamberg@...> writes:
                              > > Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight,
                              > > authorized yes but member I have not seen.
                              >
                              > If fighter practice in held in a public park where the space is not
                              >
                              > reserved there is no way anybody can stop an unauthrized, non-SCA
                              > member from fighting.
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                            • John Edgerton
                              ... The reason I put the requirement for membership in the IKAC rules was, that in the early years of the competition I was informed of some cases of archers
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                                Siegfried Sebastian Faust wrote:

                                > > > - you will no longer need to be a member to shoot in the
                                > > > IKAC/IKCAC
                                > >
                                > >If the SCA requires a membership to hardsuit fight, or to participate
                                > >in equestrian activities, or to compete in ANY tournament, then why is
                                > >this different for archery?
                                >
                                > Godwin, I fear you are slightly misinformed.
                                >
                                > First of all there is the fact that, unless your local kingdom places this
                                > restriction, which I would doubt, there is NO requirement for membership to
                                > be able to do archery, to submit Royal Round scores, to compete in an
                                > archery tournament, etc.
                                >
                                > The IKAC was 'different' in that sense, and is a discouraging factor to new
                                > archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to come to a line
                                > where people are shooting an IKAC and want to join in, but are told that
                                > they are not allowed, because they are not a member.
                                >

                                The reason I put the requirement for membership in the IKAC rules was, that in
                                the early years of the competition I was informed of some cases of archers
                                bringing in members of their mundane archery clubs to shoot the competition and
                                add their scores to their kingdom. These other archers did not attend events,
                                they just came to shoot and up their friend's kingdoms average.

                                Jon

                                >
                                > Secondly, the SCA DOESN'T require a membership to hardsuit fight. Some
                                > local kingdoms do, many do not. All the SCA requires is a waiver to do
                                > hardsuit ... that can be handled by either HAVING a membership, or by
                                > signing a waiver each time you go to fight.
                                >
                                > >Sorry, I take supporting the SCA with a membership seriously.
                                >
                                > I personally take supporting the SCA through getting more people interested
                                > and active very seriously.
                                >
                                > Siegfried
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________________
                                > Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                                > Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
                                >
                                > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
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                                >
                                >
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                              • John Edgerton
                                ... Except that perhaps no one would loan them the gear or fight with them. :-) Just because it is done in a public park does not give everyone the right to
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                                  hanhebin wrote:

                                  > > Where dose it say you must be a member of the SCA to fight,
                                  > > authorized yes but member I have not seen.
                                  >
                                  > If fighter practice in held in a public park where the space is not
                                  > reserved there is no way anybody can stop an unauthrized, non-SCA
                                  > member from fighting.
                                  >

                                  Except that perhaps no one would loan them the gear or fight with them. :-)
                                  Just because it is done in a public park does not give everyone the right to
                                  use our gear or to fight with someone against their will.

                                  Jon

                                  Jon
                                • Susan Kell
                                  Also, folks, please don t lose sight of the fact that the IKAC is a *privately sponsored* tournement. The sponsor, Lorenzo, can set any rules he wants... --
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 5, 2001
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                                    Also, folks, please don't lose sight of the fact that the IKAC is a *privately sponsored* tournement.
                                    The sponsor, Lorenzo, can set any rules he wants...
                                    -- Ygraine
                                  • conradvonzollern
                                    ... The IKAC was different in that sense, and is a discouraging factor to new archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to come to a line
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 7, 2001
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                                      --- In SCA-Archery@y..., John Edgerton <sirjon1@p...> wrote:

                                      "The IKAC was 'different' in that sense, and is a discouraging factor
                                      to new archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to
                                      come to a line where people are shooting an IKAC and want to join in,
                                      but are told that they are not allowed, because they are not a member.

                                      The reason I put the requirement for membership in the IKAC rules
                                      was, that in the early years of the competition I was informed of
                                      some cases of archers bringing in members of their mundane archery
                                      clubs to shoot the competition and add their scores to their kingdom.
                                      These other archers did not attend events, they just came to shoot
                                      and up their friend's kingdoms average."

                                      If a non-member decided to come to a practice when we were shooting
                                      an IKAC (or anything else for that matter), we would likely allow
                                      them to shoot with us, but would not submit their scores to the
                                      Kingdom scorekeeper (Outlands Kingdom law)...

                                      I should think that bringing in outside 'ringers' to pad scores would
                                      be considered by most to be very unchivalrous, even if not outright
                                      illegal...

                                      But anyone who expressed an interest in what we were doing would be
                                      treated courteously and 'allowed' to shoot with us... It is not only
                                      a good way to introduce non-SCA archers to what we do, but our group
                                      frequently shoots at public ranges... and if not, on public land...
                                      Who are we to tell them they can't shoot with us? If handled
                                      correctly, you might very easily recruit some new SCA paying members,
                                      who are already interested in the noble sport of target archery...

                                      My two Silver Groshen's worth...

                                      Conrad Von Zollern

                                      Canton of Hawk's Hollow
                                      Barony of Caerthe
                                      Kingdom of the Outlands
                                    • John Edgerton
                                      ... Only the following from here.... ... is a quote from me. Jon
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 7, 2001
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                                        conradvonzollern wrote:

                                        > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., John Edgerton <sirjon1@p...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > "The IKAC was 'different' in that sense, and is a discouraging factor
                                        > to new archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to
                                        > come to a line where people are shooting an IKAC and want to join in,
                                        > but are told that they are not allowed, because they are not a member.
                                        >

                                        Only the following from here....

                                        >
                                        > The reason I put the requirement for membership in the IKAC rules
                                        > was, that in the early years of the competition I was informed of
                                        > some cases of archers bringing in members of their mundane archery
                                        > clubs to shoot the competition and add their scores to their kingdom.
                                        > These other archers did not attend events, they just came to shoot
                                        > and up their friend's kingdoms average."
                                        >

                                        is a quote from me.

                                        Jon

                                        >
                                        > If a non-member decided to come to a practice when we were shooting
                                        > an IKAC (or anything else for that matter), we would likely allow
                                        > them to shoot with us, but would not submit their scores to the
                                        > Kingdom scorekeeper (Outlands Kingdom law)...
                                        >
                                        > I should think that bringing in outside 'ringers' to pad scores would
                                        > be considered by most to be very unchivalrous, even if not outright
                                        > illegal...
                                        >
                                        > But anyone who expressed an interest in what we were doing would be
                                        > treated courteously and 'allowed' to shoot with us... It is not only
                                        > a good way to introduce non-SCA archers to what we do, but our group
                                        > frequently shoots at public ranges... and if not, on public land...
                                        > Who are we to tell them they can't shoot with us? If handled
                                        > correctly, you might very easily recruit some new SCA paying members,
                                        > who are already interested in the noble sport of target archery...
                                        >
                                        > My two Silver Groshen's worth...
                                        >
                                        > Conrad Von Zollern
                                        >
                                        > Canton of Hawk's Hollow
                                        > Barony of Caerthe
                                        > Kingdom of the Outlands
                                        >
                                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                        > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                        >
                                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      • pdruss@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 12/7/01 10:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Hi, I m new here. Could you explain to me about shooting on public land ? Do you mean like a
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 7, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          In a message dated 12/7/01 10:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                          sirjon1@... writes:


                                          > It is not only
                                          > > a good way to introduce non-SCA archers to what we do, but our group
                                          > > frequently shoots at public ranges... and if not, on public land...
                                          >



                                          Hi,

                                          I'm new here. Could you explain to me about shooting on "public land"? Do you
                                          mean like a public park?
                                          I haven't been able to find a archery range here.

                                          Tamara




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Howpatn@cs.com
                                          In a message dated 12/8/01 7:13:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, pdruss@aol.com ... Have you tried the local park service? Military installations sometimes ranges
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 8, 2001
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In a message dated 12/8/01 7:13:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, pdruss@...
                                            writes:


                                            > I'm new here. Could you explain to me about shooting on "public land"? Do
                                            > you
                                            > mean like a public park?
                                            > I haven't been able to find a archery range here.
                                            >

                                            Have you tried the local park service? Military installations sometimes
                                            ranges that are open to public use. I use just such a range. What is your
                                            mundane location? I'll ask if any of my archer friends know of a range near
                                            you.
                                            You can also purchase the equipment and set up your own range if state and
                                            local codes allow it and you have the space.

                                            Howard of Brockenhurst


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • conradvonzollern
                                            ... I m new here. Could you explain to me about shooting on public land ? Do you mean like a public park? I haven t been able to find a archery range here.
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Dec 8, 2001
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In SCA-Archery@y..., pdruss@a... wrote:

                                              "I'm new here. Could you explain to me about shooting on "public
                                              land"? Do you mean like a public park?
                                              I haven't been able to find a archery range here."

                                              Hi Tamara,

                                              Yes, we currently shoot in a city park (weather permitting), with the
                                              cities blessings... We are negotiating with another local
                                              municipality, and an independent school district in order to secure
                                              two additional alternate sites also...

                                              I was surprised that the schools in particular were receptive, with
                                              all of the "Zero tolerance" stuff regarding weapons, but so far
                                              everything seems to be moving along nicely...

                                              Conrad Von Zollern
                                            • conradvonzollern
                                              ... If those sca s are going to pad thier scores by using outside archers, they could do it by just sending in 20 bucks in the mundanes name. then they become
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Dec 8, 2001
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "Talmon Parker" <tt_ann@h...> wrote:

                                                "If those sca's are going to pad thier scores by using outside
                                                archers, they could do it by just sending in 20 bucks in the mundanes
                                                name. then they become legal cheats.

                                                Talmon

                                                But just as unchivalrous... that was my point exactly... There
                                                is "legal" and there is intent... i.e. the spirit of the game...

                                                Conrad Von Zollern
                                              • Talmon Parker
                                                If those sca s are going to pad thier scores by using outside archers, they could do it by just sending in 20 bucks in the mundanes name. then they become
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Dec 8, 2001
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  If those sca's are going to pad thier scores by using outside archers,
                                                  they could do it by just sending in 20 bucks in the mundanes name. then they
                                                  become legal cheats.
                                                  Talmon




                                                  DER BARON



                                                  >From: John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                                                  >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Simple courtesy vs. "padding scores"
                                                  >Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:54:08 -0800
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >conradvonzollern wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > --- In SCA-Archery@y..., John Edgerton <sirjon1@p...> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > "The IKAC was 'different' in that sense, and is a discouraging factor
                                                  > > to new archers who are learning to shoot, getting better, happen to
                                                  > > come to a line where people are shooting an IKAC and want to join in,
                                                  > > but are told that they are not allowed, because they are not a member.
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >Only the following from here....
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The reason I put the requirement for membership in the IKAC rules
                                                  > > was, that in the early years of the competition I was informed of
                                                  > > some cases of archers bringing in members of their mundane archery
                                                  > > clubs to shoot the competition and add their scores to their kingdom.
                                                  > > These other archers did not attend events, they just came to shoot
                                                  > > and up their friend's kingdoms average."
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >is a quote from me.
                                                  >
                                                  >Jon
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > If a non-member decided to come to a practice when we were shooting
                                                  > > an IKAC (or anything else for that matter), we would likely allow
                                                  > > them to shoot with us, but would not submit their scores to the
                                                  > > Kingdom scorekeeper (Outlands Kingdom law)...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I should think that bringing in outside 'ringers' to pad scores would
                                                  > > be considered by most to be very unchivalrous, even if not outright
                                                  > > illegal...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > But anyone who expressed an interest in what we were doing would be
                                                  > > treated courteously and 'allowed' to shoot with us... It is not only
                                                  > > a good way to introduce non-SCA archers to what we do, but our group
                                                  > > frequently shoots at public ranges... and if not, on public land...
                                                  > > Who are we to tell them they can't shoot with us? If handled
                                                  > > correctly, you might very easily recruit some new SCA paying members,
                                                  > > who are already interested in the noble sport of target archery...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > My two Silver Groshen's worth...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Conrad Von Zollern
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Canton of Hawk's Hollow
                                                  > > Barony of Caerthe
                                                  > > Kingdom of the Outlands
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                                  > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                                  > > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >---8<---------------------------------------------
                                                  >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                                  >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                                  >
                                                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  >
                                                  >


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