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Re: [SCA-Archery] Apples and Oranges?

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  • wyvern@megahits.com
    ... And yet the same basic principles are at work. The central concept of both forms of the weapon is to utilize the stored energy of a bent bow to propel an
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 1, 2001
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      > "applications of the same basic technology"
      >
      > HARDLY... I dont see more than one moving part on a
      > hand bow.

      And yet the same basic principles are at work. The central
      concept of both forms of the weapon is to utilize the stored energy
      of a bent bow to propel an arrow. Everything else is just
      embellishment of that same central principle. The only notable
      difference between the two is that crossbows add a fixed draw
      length and mechanically assisted release into the equation. (That's
      one or two extra moving parts. Mechanical releases are also used
      with handbows -- just not in the SCA because they aren't period.
      Unless you count thumbrings. Which are another moving part... =)

      > C'mon, theyre NOTHING alike. You can go on thinking
      > they are if you like if it makes you feel better.(sorry bout
      > the sarcasm, Im frustrated)

      It's not about me "feeling better," it's about recognizing the simple
      facts of the matter.

      > Have you ever taken a physics class? (Im not busting
      > on you, its a serious question) If youre an engineer
      > also you may understand where Im going with this.

      Yes, in fact I studied engineering. I also shoot both longbows and
      crossbows, make arrows and bolts, and build/repair crossbows.
      That's why I know for a fact that the basic principles of operation of
      both are identical.

      > Im done.. lol... I dont want to make anyone mad at
      > me.. sorry.

      Don't feel bad. Irrational fear of crossbows is period. ;)

      YIS,
      Macsen
    • atruemark@aol.com
      In an earlier post I stated that the crossbow provided an unfair advantage due to its fixed string position and mechanical release. I would have been more
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 1, 2001
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        In an earlier post I stated that the crossbow provided an "unfair advantage"
        due to its fixed string position and mechanical release. I would have been
        more accurate to have stated the crossbow provides an "unfair mechanical
        advantage," since I would be the first to acknowledge that shooting a period
        style crossbow requires every bit as much knowledge, expertise, practice and
        cussing as a handbow, just in different areas than the handbow.

        For example, beyond the basics of shooting a handbow well, almost the
        entirety of what I practice is to achieve the "mechanical" results that the
        crossbow possesses as part of its design; a consistent draw length (anchor
        point) and "mechanical" release (the non-effort that gets my fingers off the
        string in the least invasive manner).
        Truly, when my arrows do not go exactly where I intended I can almost always
        point to one of these two factors as being the culprit - either I "let down"
        or "crept" or my release was less than perfect. "Aim," in my belief (and
        teaching) is the least of what directs my arrows to the proper part of the
        target - Good form, including, most importantly a consistent anchor and
        clean release, dictates the eventual placement of the arrow.

        Conversly, when shooting a period crossbow, it everything about where the
        butt of the bow is placed on (or in) my shoulder, how the bow is canted, how
        I drew the string back, how the bolts are made and balanced, how I am
        breathing when I actuate the mechanical release aid (trigger), etc. Again,
        my practices become about being as "mechanical" as possible, doing all the
        right things all the time, consistently.

        Having said all that - and acknowledging the "balancing" factor of the
        quicker rate of fire for the handbow vs the crossbow (with the exception of a
        few crossbow shooters who have figured that one out as well) in the speed
        rounds - I will still state that crossbows should not compete heads up
        against handbows. It is historically accurate that crossbows supplanted
        handbows in Europe as the "shaft thrower" of choice, only in turn to be
        supplanted by the firearm. It is easier to learn to shoot the crossbow
        effectively than it is to learn to shoot the handbow to the same level,
        primarily due to its inherent "unfair mechanical advantages."

        All the above is my personal opinion. It is based on what I can do with a
        handbow and what I have learned to do with a period style crossbow over the
        past five years. I invoke Master Ailean's name here as testimony that I
        enjoy the crossbow and so am not tainted by a dislike of the apparatus - I
        merely point out the differences.

        Andras Truemark, OGGS
        Ludicrous Bowman (Handbow)
        Grandmaster Bowman (Crossbow)


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      • Howpatn@cs.com
        ... Both motorcycles and cars operate on the same principle, converting the heat of burning fuel into mechanical energy. The major, other than size, difference
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 1, 2001
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          > motorcycle and a car get you from point A to point B,
          > but do it quite differently.)
          >

          Both motorcycles and cars operate on the same principle, converting the heat
          of burning fuel into mechanical energy. The major, other than size,
          difference between the motorcycle and cars is the number of wheels. I am
          licensed to drive both and Class A vehicles too.

          With crossbows and bows the major difference is the in the mechanics not the
          propulsion. Both use a bent stick as the propulsion device. It is still the
          shooter more than the weapon that is the deciding factor.

          Howard


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        • Howpatn@cs.com
          ... You see only one mechanical moving part. That s the difference. //You can go on thinking they are if you like if it makes you feel better.(sorry bout the
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 1, 2001
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            > HARDLY... I dont see more than one moving part on a
            > hand bow.
            >
            >

            You see only one mechanical moving part. That's the difference.

            //You can go on thinking
            they are if you like if it makes you feel
            better.(sorry bout the sarcasm, Im frustrated)//

            Don't get frustrated. This isn't worth an ulcer.

            Howard




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