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New range

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  • radams555@yahoo.com
    Greetings, I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have looked high and low and I can t seem to find information as to how high a target
    Message 1 of 24 , May 1, 2001
      Greetings,

      I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
      looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
      a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
      so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
      was a standard or not.

      Yis,
      Isabetta
    • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
      There is an official standard for FITA stuff ... But in general, I think people like to have the center of the target about a yard high. That seems to work
      Message 2 of 24 , May 1, 2001
        There is an 'official' standard for FITA stuff ...

        But in general, I think people like to have the center of the target about
        a yard high.

        That seems to work pretty well. That, or a little lower (2.5 ft or so).

        The most important thing is don't have it so high you are encouraging
        overshots to travel REALLY FAR, and don't have it sitting on the ground :)

        Siegfried


        At 03:59 PM 5/1/2001 +0000, you wrote:
        >Greetings,
        >
        >I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
        >looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
        >a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
        >so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
        >was a standard or not.
        >
        >Yis,
        >Isabetta
        >
        >
        >
        >---8<---------------------------------------------
        >Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
        >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
        >
        >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        _________________________________________________________________________
        Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
        Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
        International standards call for the target center to be 130cm (51 3/16 ) from average level ground. This being the SCA we can use what we please but I find
        Message 3 of 24 , May 1, 2001
          International standards call for the target center to be 130cm (51 3/16") from average level ground. This being the SCA we can use what we please but I find 48-56" most comfortable for most archers.
          Carolus von Eulenhorst

          ------Original Message------
          From: [Unknown Sender]
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: May 1, 2001 3:59:00 PM GMT
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range


          Greetings,

          I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
          looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
          a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
          so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
          was a standard or not.

          Yis,
          Isabetta



          ---8<---------------------------------------------
          Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
          Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/

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          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          In service to the dream,
          Carolus von Eulenhorst
        • Mike Hornbaker
          no standard heights from this kingdom. Michael
          Message 4 of 24 , May 1, 2001
            no standard heights from this kingdom.

            Michael

            On Tue, 01 May 2001 15:59:00 -0000 radams555@... writes:
            > Greetings,
            >
            > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
            > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how
            > high
            > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard?
            > With
            > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
            >
            > was a standard or not.
            >
            > Yis,
            > Isabetta
            >
            >
            >
            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
            > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • James W. Pratt Jr.
            Check with some of the Olimpic or mundane ranges/sites/people. I am sure the Olimpics have a set hight of target and spells it out in metic(not period but
            Message 5 of 24 , May 1, 2001
              Check with some of the Olimpic or mundane ranges/sites/people. I am sure
              the Olimpics have a set hight of target and spells it out in metic(not
              period but very inclusive). For my targets I use chest high for fighter
              targets and ankle high for rabbit targets.

              James Cunningham

              > Greetings,
              >
              > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
              > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
              > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
              > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
              > was a standard or not.
              >
              > Yis,
              > Isabetta
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
              > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
              >
              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • archer3@webtv.net
              I like the mark about chest high, but wait, let s see, three bales of straw are about......and the middle is about....... Seriously though, three bales will
              Message 6 of 24 , May 1, 2001
                I like the mark about chest high, but wait, let's see, three bales of
                straw are about......and the middle is about.......
                Seriously though, three bales will work, four is also an option. Straw
                is cheap enough and will hold up if it isn't too old. Just remember to
                drive stakes and run a rope over the top, or if you use frames, to
                provide a line to the ground for stabilization of the frame, unless you
                live somewhere that the wind doesn't blow! :-)
                On my home range I put the straw on a pallet to help prevent rot.

                Damian >>~~~>
              • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                ... See, now from my last post giving the 2.5-3 ... I would find the above 4-4.5 target a bit high Although I do guess that these are about the heights
                Message 7 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                  At 04:24 PM 5/1/2001 -0400, you wrote:
                  >International standards call for the target center to be 130cm (51 3/16")
                  >from average level ground. This being the SCA we can use what we please
                  >but I find 48-56" most comfortable for most archers.
                  >Carolus von Eulenhorst

                  See, now from my last post giving the 2.5-3' ... I would find the above
                  4-4.5' target a 'bit high' Although I do guess that these are about the
                  heights that the ones at Pennsic use. Which can be a bit high for a short
                  person. If you have a 5' tall archer, their arms are just going to reach
                  the top of the target.

                  Alot of it is personal preference. But I do still say, as long as it isn't
                  on the ground, and as long as it isn't 'too high that people can't reach it
                  & overshots go REALLY over', then I think almost anything in between is
                  just fine.

                  Siegfried



                  _________________________________________________________________________
                  Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                  Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
                • David Poulin
                  The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target must be between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway for personal
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                    The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target must be
                    between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway for
                    personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target heights
                    to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT shooting a
                    RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!

                    ------------------------------------------
                    Antony Martin de Schefeld

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <radams555@...>
                    To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range


                    Greetings,

                    I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                    looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
                    a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
                    so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                    was a standard or not.

                    Yis,
                    Isabetta



                    ---8<---------------------------------------------
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                    Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/

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                  • hamberg@fiber.net
                    ... In tournament I can see having the center 130cm off the ground because you are firing at 122cm targets (48 face). That place the edge of the target
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                      >> International standards call for the target center to be 130cm (51
                      >> 3/16") from average level ground. This being the SCA we can use
                      >> what we please but I find 48-56" most comfortable for most archers.
                      >> Carolus von Eulenhorst

                      > See, now from my last post giving the 2.5-3' ... I would find the
                      > above 4-4.5' target a 'bit high' Although I do guess that these
                      > are about the heights that the ones at Pennsic use. Which can be a
                      > bit high for a short person. If you have a 5' tall archer, their
                      > arms are just going to reach the top of the target.

                      In tournament I can see having the center 130cm off the ground
                      because you are firing at 122cm targets (48" face). That place the
                      edge of the target roughly 2' off the deck. One must consider the
                      bottom of the target when you think of the 130cm reg. If you placed
                      the bottom of the target at 27" you have the center at 3'3" on a 60cm
                      target. Well within your comfort zone.

                      It is my personal opinion however that you allow the archer to place
                      the target at what ever height they so desire. If they enjoy
                      shooting they will return. Remember this is supposed to be fun so
                      give them their favorite shot.

                      Michael
                    • Eric Ward
                      James- Please contact me privately regarding Lillies period shoot. Owen ap Howell ecward@southwind.net or eward@teen.k12.ks.us ... From: James W. Pratt Jr.
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                        James- Please contact me privately regarding Lillies period shoot.

                        Owen ap Howell

                        ecward@...
                        or
                        eward@...

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "James W. Pratt Jr." <cunning@...>
                        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 7:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] New range



                        Check with some of the Olimpic or mundane ranges/sites/people. I am sure
                        the Olimpics have a set hight of target and spells it out in metic(not
                        period but very inclusive). For my targets I use chest high for fighter
                        targets and ankle high for rabbit targets.

                        James Cunningham

                        > Greetings,
                        >
                        > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                        > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
                        > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
                        > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                        > was a standard or not.
                        >
                        > Yis,
                        > Isabetta
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                        > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                        >
                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >


                        ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                        Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/

                        [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • radams555@yahoo.com
                        I am surprised that the SCA doesn t have a standard written down like they do everything else. That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                          I am surprised that the SCA doesn't have a standard written down like
                          they do everything else.

                          That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the straw -- I
                          will do that.

                          Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                          things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that SCA
                          members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves, but as
                          a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should I make the
                          attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will be marshalled
                          prior to practice starting.

                          Thanks for all your input,
                          Isabetta

                          --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> wrote:
                          > The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target must be
                          > between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway for
                          > personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target heights
                          > to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT shooting a
                          > RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------
                          > Antony Martin de Schefeld
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: <radams555@y...>
                          > To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                          > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                          > Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range
                          >
                          >
                          > Greetings,
                          >
                          > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                          > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
                          > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
                          > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                          > was a standard or not.
                          >
                          > Yis,
                          > Isabetta
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                          > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                          > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                          >
                          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
                          terms/
                        • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                          This standard is used whenever only one face is used on a buttress whether it is 40, 60, 80, or 122cm. If multiple faces are used they are centered around
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                            This standard is used whenever only one face is used on a buttress whether it is 40, 60, 80, or 122cm. If multiple faces are used they are centered around this point (either above/below or side by side for 2; or quartered for 4). As I mentioned, this is the SCA and we can do whatever we choose -- after all we set the rules. I present this only for a starting point. By all means place the faces where your shooters are comfortable. I move the faces around on mine so nobody gets too used to a particular position.
                            Carolus von Eulenhorst

                            ------Original Message------
                            From: [Unknown Sender]
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: May 2, 2001 3:25:31 PM GMT
                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range


                            >> International standards call for the target center to be 130cm (51
                            >> 3/16") from average level ground. This being the SCA we can use
                            >> what we please but I find 48-56" most comfortable for most archers.
                            >> Carolus von Eulenhorst

                            > See, now from my last post giving the 2.5-3' ... I would find the
                            > above 4-4.5' target a 'bit high' Although I do guess that these
                            > are about the heights that the ones at Pennsic use. Which can be a
                            > bit high for a short person. If you have a 5' tall archer, their
                            > arms are just going to reach the top of the target.

                            In tournament I can see having the center 130cm off the ground
                            because you are firing at 122cm targets (48" face). That place the
                            edge of the target roughly 2' off the deck. One must consider the
                            bottom of the target when you think of the 130cm reg. If you placed
                            the bottom of the target at 27" you have the center at 3'3" on a 60cm
                            target. Well within your comfort zone.

                            It is my personal opinion however that you allow the archer to place
                            the target at what ever height they so desire. If they enjoy
                            shooting they will return. Remember this is supposed to be fun so
                            give them their favorite shot.

                            Michael


                            ---8<---------------------------------------------
                            Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                            Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/

                            [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]


                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            In service to the dream,
                            Carolus von Eulenhorst
                          • hamberg@fiber.net
                            ... I sign one of these releases every time I shoot at my local indoor range. It has been a common practice at every range or marshal arts studio I ve been to
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                              > Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                              > things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that
                              > SCA members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves,
                              > but as a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should
                              > I make the attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will
                              > be marshalled prior to practice starting.

                              I sign one of these releases every time I shoot at my local indoor
                              range. It has been a common practice at every range or marshal arts
                              studio I've been to for the past 20 years.

                              I would first check into the local laws. I don't know where you are
                              located but in many metropolitan areas it is illegal to fire a weapon
                              within a fix distance of an occupied structure. I'm located in Salt
                              Lake City where it is illegal to fire any kind of weapon anywhere in
                              the county except at a range. In many of the surrounding counties
                              the requirement is no closer than 1 mile to any occupied structure.
                              Doesn't matter whether it's private property or not.

                              Michael
                            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              I hold pratices on my property. Make sure you have good liability insurance for your property. Make sure your practices are published in at least the local
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                                I hold pratices on my property. Make sure you have good liability insurance for your property. Make sure your practices are published in at least the local SCA newsletter, this gets you covered by the SCA insurance. The waiver by itself isn't worth the paper it's written on. Make sure your site has proper clearances and backstops. If you aren't a Rangemaster/Target Archery Marshal make sure you have one on site. This not only is required for an official event, it indicates you have performed due diligence. No inspection will be done unless you ask for it but if you have a Rangemaster/Target Archery Marshal present it is his job to do a safety check before allowing shooting. This should cover it. Please contact me if I may be of further help.
                                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                Rangemaster, Caid

                                ------Original Message------
                                From: [Unknown Sender]
                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: May 2, 2001 6:08:37 PM GMT
                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range


                                I am surprised that the SCA doesn't have a standard written down like
                                they do everything else.

                                That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the straw -- I
                                will do that.

                                Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                                things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that SCA
                                members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves, but as
                                a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should I make the
                                attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will be marshalled
                                prior to practice starting.

                                Thanks for all your input,
                                Isabetta

                                --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> wrote:
                                > The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target must be
                                > between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway for
                                > personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target heights
                                > to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT shooting a
                                > RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------
                                > Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: <radams555@y...>
                                > To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                                > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                                > Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range
                                >
                                >
                                > Greetings,
                                >
                                > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                                > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
                                > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
                                > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                                > was a standard or not.
                                >
                                > Yis,
                                > Isabetta
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                > Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                > Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                >
                                > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
                                terms/



                                ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/

                                [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]


                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                In service to the dream,
                                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              • psobaka@myriad.net
                                No closer that 1 mile bummer, can t see how you could get any thing but a flight bow to come close to that. Haven t talked to Bryan , Tx. but College Station,
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                                  No closer that 1 mile bummer, can't see how you could get any thing but a
                                  flight bow to come close to that. Haven't talked to Bryan , Tx. but College
                                  Station, Tx twin city requires 5 contigus acres, but as the officer said
                                  unless the nabiors complain they don't have time to go looking for people
                                  shoting bows on there own property. I probly need to check with the Bryan
                                  PD. as I shot on my propery about .3 acres.

                                  >I would first check into the local laws. I don't know where you are
                                  >located but in many metropolitan areas it is illegal to fire a weapon
                                  >within a fix distance of an occupied structure. I'm located in Salt
                                  >Lake City where it is illegal to fire any kind of weapon anywhere in
                                  >the county except at a range. In many of the surrounding counties
                                  >the requirement is no closer than 1 mile to any occupied structure.
                                  >Doesn't matter whether it's private property or not.
                                  >
                                  >Michael
                                  >
                                  Plachoya Sobaka insignificant archer; Ravens Fort, Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                • David Poulin
                                  I agree with the statement Carolus made below (I am both a Marshal and the local Chronicler so I KNOW my practices are legal by SCA rules). I also have a
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                                    I agree with the statement Carolus made below (I am both a Marshal and the
                                    local Chronicler so I KNOW my practices are 'legal' by SCA rules).

                                    I also have a waiver I designed myself (and had a lawyer friend of mine here
                                    in Maine look it over for loopholes). I maintain them on file for anyone
                                    who's part of the local shire or a member of my archery company and have any
                                    'one-timers' or visitors sign one each time they shoot on my property.
                                    Reply to me off-list and I'd be happy to send a copy (Excel 97 format) to
                                    anyone who'd like one (you'll need to get it 'checked' by a local lawyer to
                                    make sure it's OK for your area though...)

                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                    Captain, Northern Sun Company

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Carolus von Eulenhorst" <eulenhorst@...>
                                    To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:22 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range


                                    I hold pratices on my property. Make sure you have good liability insurance
                                    for your property. Make sure your practices are published in at least the
                                    local SCA newsletter, this gets you covered by the SCA insurance. The
                                    waiver by itself isn't worth the paper it's written on. Make sure your site
                                    has proper clearances and backstops. If you aren't a Rangemaster/Target
                                    Archery Marshal make sure you have one on site. This not only is required
                                    for an official event, it indicates you have performed due diligence. No
                                    inspection will be done unless you ask for it but if you have a
                                    Rangemaster/Target Archery Marshal present it is his job to do a safety
                                    check before allowing shooting. This should cover it. Please contact me if
                                    I may be of further help.
                                    Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                    Rangemaster, Caid

                                    ------Original Message------
                                    From: [Unknown Sender]
                                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: May 2, 2001 6:08:37 PM GMT
                                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range


                                    I am surprised that the SCA doesn't have a standard written down like
                                    they do everything else.

                                    That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the straw -- I
                                    will do that.

                                    Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                                    things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that SCA
                                    members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves, but as
                                    a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should I make the
                                    attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will be marshalled
                                    prior to practice starting.

                                    Thanks for all your input,
                                    Isabetta

                                    --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> wrote:
                                    > The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target must be
                                    > between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway for
                                    > personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target
                                    heights
                                    > to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT shooting a
                                    > RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------
                                    > Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: <radams555@y...>
                                    > To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                                    > Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Greetings,
                                    >
                                    > I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                                    > looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how high
                                    > a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard? With
                                    > so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                                    > was a standard or not.
                                    >
                                    > Yis,
                                    > Isabetta
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                    In service to the dream,
                                    Carolus von Eulenhorst


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                                  • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                    The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required by the BOD for any Official activity such as a practice. It would be available from
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 2, 2001
                                      The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required
                                      by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would be
                                      available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with your
                                      local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical releases.
                                      These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational Handbook.
                                      I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                      In service to the dream,
                                      Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                      Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                      eulenhorst@...

                                      On Thu, 3 May 2001 00:56:37 -0400 "David Poulin" <chaos@...> writes:
                                      >I agree with the statement Carolus made below (I am both a Marshal and
                                      >the
                                      >local Chronicler so I KNOW my practices are 'legal' by SCA rules).
                                      >
                                      >I also have a waiver I designed myself (and had a lawyer friend of
                                      >mine here
                                      >in Maine look it over for loopholes). I maintain them on file for
                                      >anyone
                                      >who's part of the local shire or a member of my archery company and
                                      >have any
                                      >'one-timers' or visitors sign one each time they shoot on my property.
                                      >Reply to me off-list and I'd be happy to send a copy (Excel 97 format)
                                      >to
                                      >anyone who'd like one (you'll need to get it 'checked' by a local
                                      >lawyer to
                                      >make sure it's OK for your area though...)
                                      >
                                      >------------------------------------------
                                      >Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                      >Captain, Northern Sun Company
                                      >
                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                      >From: "Carolus von Eulenhorst" <eulenhorst@...>
                                      >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:22 PM
                                      >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >I hold pratices on my property. Make sure you have good liability
                                      >insurance
                                      >for your property. Make sure your practices are published in at least
                                      >the
                                      >local SCA newsletter, this gets you covered by the SCA insurance. The
                                      >waiver by itself isn't worth the paper it's written on. Make sure
                                      >your site
                                      >has proper clearances and backstops. If you aren't a
                                      >Rangemaster/Target
                                      >Archery Marshal make sure you have one on site. This not only is
                                      >required
                                      >for an official event, it indicates you have performed due diligence.
                                      >No
                                      >inspection will be done unless you ask for it but if you have a
                                      >Rangemaster/Target Archery Marshal present it is his job to do a
                                      >safety
                                      >check before allowing shooting. This should cover it. Please contact
                                      >me if
                                      >I may be of further help.
                                      >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                      >Rangemaster, Caid
                                      >
                                      >------Original Message------
                                      >From: [Unknown Sender]
                                      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Sent: May 2, 2001 6:08:37 PM GMT
                                      >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >I am surprised that the SCA doesn't have a standard written down like
                                      >they do everything else.
                                      >
                                      >That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the straw --
                                      >I
                                      >will do that.
                                      >
                                      >Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                                      >things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that SCA
                                      >members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves, but as
                                      >a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should I make the
                                      >attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will be marshalled
                                      >prior to practice starting.
                                      >
                                      >Thanks for all your input,
                                      >Isabetta
                                      >
                                      >--- In SCA-Archery@y..., "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> wrote:
                                      >> The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target
                                      >must be
                                      >> between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway
                                      >for
                                      >> personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target
                                      >heights
                                      >> to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT
                                      >shooting a
                                      >> RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!
                                      >>
                                      >> ------------------------------------------
                                      >> Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                      >>
                                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                                      >> From: <radams555@y...>
                                      >> To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                                      >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                                      >> Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Greetings,
                                      >>
                                      >> I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                                      >> looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how
                                      >high
                                      >> a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard?
                                      >With
                                      >> so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                                      >> was a standard or not.
                                      >>
                                      >> Yis,
                                      >> Isabetta
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                      >> Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                      >> Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                      >>
                                      >> [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
                                      >terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >In service to the dream,
                                      >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                      >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
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                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                      >
                                      >

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                                    • radams555@yahoo.com
                                      I am the chronicler of my shire as well, so I will make sure I put it in the newsletter and on our website. I will be marshaled at an upcoming event, so I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 3, 2001
                                        I am the chronicler of my shire as well, so I will make sure I put it
                                        in the newsletter and on our website. I will be marshaled at an
                                        upcoming event, so I will post it after that. Right now, I am just
                                        having a select few of my closer friends come over to practice and try
                                        everything out. The seneschal knows about it, and I am well stocked
                                        with forms. I live out in the country of Southern Oregon, so I have
                                        some acreage around the range. Neighbors can see it, but they haven't
                                        complained. I am working on backdrops. Yes, I would like the Excel
                                        file from Carolus.

                                        Thanks for all your input on this -- it will save me a lot of hassle
                                        later.

                                        Isabetta de' Medici
                                        Shire of Glyn Dwfn
                                        (An Tir)



                                        --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@j...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required
                                        > by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would be
                                        > available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with your
                                        > local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical releases.
                                        > These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational Handbook.
                                        > I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                        > In service to the dream,
                                        > Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                        > Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                        > eulenhorst@j...
                                        >
                                        > On Thu, 3 May 2001 00:56:37 -0400 "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> writes:
                                        > >I agree with the statement Carolus made below (I am both a Marshal and
                                        > >the
                                        > >local Chronicler so I KNOW my practices are 'legal' by SCA rules).
                                        > >
                                        > >I also have a waiver I designed myself (and had a lawyer friend of
                                        > >mine here
                                        > >in Maine look it over for loopholes). I maintain them on file for
                                        > >anyone
                                        > >who's part of the local shire or a member of my archery company and
                                        > >have any
                                        > >'one-timers' or visitors sign one each time they shoot on my property.
                                        > >Reply to me off-list and I'd be happy to send a copy (Excel 97 format)
                                        > >to
                                        > >anyone who'd like one (you'll need to get it 'checked' by a local
                                        > >lawyer to
                                        > >make sure it's OK for your area though...)
                                        > >
                                        > >------------------------------------------
                                        > >Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                        > >Captain, Northern Sun Company
                                        > >
                                        > >----- Original Message -----
                                        > >From: "Carolus von Eulenhorst" <eulenhorst@j...>
                                        > >To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                                        > >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:22 PM
                                        > >Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >I hold pratices on my property. Make sure you have good liability
                                        > >insurance
                                        > >for your property. Make sure your practices are published in at least
                                        > >the
                                        > >local SCA newsletter, this gets you covered by the SCA insurance. The
                                        > >waiver by itself isn't worth the paper it's written on. Make sure
                                        > >your site
                                        > >has proper clearances and backstops. If you aren't a
                                        > >Rangemaster/Target
                                        > >Archery Marshal make sure you have one on site. This not only is
                                        > >required
                                        > >for an official event, it indicates you have performed due diligence.
                                        > >No
                                        > >inspection will be done unless you ask for it but if you have a
                                        > >Rangemaster/Target Archery Marshal present it is his job to do a
                                        > >safety
                                        > >check before allowing shooting. This should cover it. Please contact
                                        > >me if
                                        > >I may be of further help.
                                        > >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                        > >Rangemaster, Caid
                                        > >
                                        > >------Original Message------
                                        > >From: [Unknown Sender]
                                        > >To: SCA-Archery@y...
                                        > >Sent: May 2, 2001 6:08:37 PM GMT
                                        > >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >I am surprised that the SCA doesn't have a standard written down like
                                        > >they do everything else.
                                        > >
                                        > >That was a good idea earlier about putting pallets under the straw --
                                        > >I
                                        > >will do that.
                                        > >
                                        > >Does anyone here practice on private property? If so, what special
                                        > >things do you do to protect yourself from liability? I know that SCA
                                        > >members have signed a waiver releasing liability to themselves, but as
                                        > >a homeowner (my property is where practice will be), should I make the
                                        > >attendees sign anything to protect my interests? I will be marshalled
                                        > >prior to practice starting.
                                        > >
                                        > >Thanks for all your input,
                                        > >Isabetta
                                        > >
                                        > >--- In SCA-Archery@y..., "David Poulin" <chaos@m...> wrote:
                                        > >> The standard in the East Kingdom is that the center of the target
                                        > >must be
                                        > >> between 2 and 4 feet from the ground. That leaves a bit of leeway
                                        > >for
                                        > >> personal preference but gives shooters a comfortable range of target
                                        > >heights
                                        > >> to expect when shooting Royal Rounds. Of corse, if you are NOT
                                        > >shooting a
                                        > >> RR, the target height can be whatever you want it to be!
                                        > >>
                                        > >> ------------------------------------------
                                        > >> Antony Martin de Schefeld
                                        > >>
                                        > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                        > >> From: <radams555@y...>
                                        > >> To: <SCA-Archery@y...>
                                        > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:59 AM
                                        > >> Subject: [SCA-Archery] New range
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Greetings,
                                        > >>
                                        > >> I am setting up a new target archery range for our shire. I have
                                        > >> looked high and low and I can't seem to find information as to how
                                        > >high
                                        > >> a target should be placed from the ground. Is there a standard?
                                        > >With
                                        > >> so many people of varying heights practicing, I wasn't sure if there
                                        > >> was a standard or not.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Yis,
                                        > >> Isabetta
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                        > >> Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                        > >> Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                        > >>
                                        > >> [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
                                        > >terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                                        > >Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                        > >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
                                        > >
                                        > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >In service to the dream,
                                        > >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                                        > >Brought to you eGroups Ad Free in 2001 by Baron Bows
                                        > >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
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                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
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                                        > >
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                                      • Mark Hendershott
                                        ... Amen. Don t try and reinvent the wheel here. The waiver issue is complicated enough without adding local versions to the mix. Simon Sinnighe Briaroak,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 3, 2001
                                          At 11:19 PM 5/2/01 -0700, Carolus wrote:
                                          >The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required
                                          >by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would be
                                          >available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with your
                                          >local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical releases.
                                          >These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational Handbook.
                                          >I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                          >In service to the dream,
                                          >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                          >Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                          >eulenhorst@...
                                          >

                                          Amen. Don't try and reinvent the wheel here. The waiver issue is
                                          complicated enough without adding local versions to the mix.

                                          Simon Sinnighe
                                          Briaroak, Summits, An Tir

                                          aka Mark Hendershott, Lawyer, member SCA legal committee and member of
                                          former committee on waivers (and therefore partly responsible for the
                                          version now in use)
                                        • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range ... Check with a lawyer. Our waivers realy aren t all that much protection in a court of law unlwss they are notorized at
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 3, 2001
                                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range


                                            >The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required
                                            >by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would be
                                            >available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with your
                                            >local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical releases.
                                            >These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational Handbook.
                                            >I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                            >In service to the dream,
                                            >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                            >Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                            >eulenhorst@...
                                            >


                                            Check with a lawyer. Our waivers realy aren't all that much protection in a
                                            court of law unlwss they are notorized at the time of signing.

                                            Brad
                                          • Mark Hendershott
                                            ... Notarization is not a silver bullet for possible legal problems. All it is is proof the person signing is properly identified and act voluntarily. The
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 3, 2001
                                              At 11:50 PM 5/3/2001 -0400, you wrote:
                                              >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is required
                                              > >by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would be
                                              > >available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with your
                                              > >local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical releases.
                                              > >These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational Handbook.
                                              > >I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                              > >In service to the dream,
                                              > >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                              > >Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                              > >eulenhorst@...
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Check with a lawyer. Our waivers realy aren't all that much protection in a
                                              >court of law unlwss they are notorized at the time of signing.
                                              >
                                              >Brad

                                              Notarization is not a silver bullet for possible legal problems. All it is
                                              is proof the person signing is properly identified and act
                                              voluntarily. The actual effects vary from one jurisdiction to another.

                                              Simon

                                              Mark Hendershott, Oregon Lawyer
                                            • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                              Actually, in themselves waivers are no protection, notorized or not. In this case they need to be witnessed by someone who can testify to the fact that the
                                              Message 22 of 24 , May 3, 2001
                                                Actually, in themselves waivers are no protection, notorized or not. In
                                                this case they need to be witnessed by someone who can testify to the
                                                fact that the person involved is the person who signed (whether they
                                                signed their correct name is moot). We have this. Notorization is
                                                certification of the identity of the signer when the signer is not
                                                present, i.e. a minor's paperwork at a war without his parents. The
                                                waiver serves no purpose to prevent (or protect us from) lawsuits. They
                                                are evidence of "informed consent"; i.e. "you knew the job was dangerous
                                                when you took it". This allows us to provide a defense that the person
                                                knew what he was doing. The big difficulty with using various random and
                                                scattered waivers is that it makes it very difficult for the SCA to
                                                establish a defense. I'll let the lawyers battle out the details but
                                                these are the pricinples.
                                                In service to the dream,
                                                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                                eulenhorst@...

                                                On Thu, 3 May 2001 23:50:44 -0400 "Brad Boda d'Aylward"
                                                <bradb@...> writes:
                                                >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New range
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >>The SCA has a specific waiver its lawyers have created. It is
                                                >required
                                                >>by the BOD for any "Official" activity such as a practice. It would
                                                >be
                                                >>available from your local lists officer or Seneschal. Check with
                                                >your
                                                >>local Seneschal about the issue of minors' waivers and medical
                                                >releases.
                                                >>These issues are tricky and are covered in the Organizational
                                                >Handbook.
                                                >>I'd go over them but they're way to detailed for an email discussion.
                                                >>In service to the dream,
                                                >>Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                                >>Also a Seneschal but speaking unofficially
                                                >>eulenhorst@...
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >Check with a lawyer. Our waivers realy aren't all that much protection
                                                >in a
                                                >court of law unlwss they are notorized at the time of signing.
                                                >
                                                >Brad
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                                >Need a bow? Check http://www.baronbows.com/
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                                                >
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                                                >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                >
                                                >

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                                              • psobaka@myriad.net
                                                Realy not even that. There is a lawyer in truble with the bar here in Texas becouse his sectary had relative notarize her sig as the lawyers. Don t even what
                                                Message 23 of 24 , May 6, 2001
                                                  Realy not even that. There is a lawyer in truble with the bar here in Texas
                                                  becouse his sectary had relative notarize her sig as the lawyers. Don't even
                                                  what to go where this is going.
                                                  >
                                                  >Notarization is not a silver bullet for possible legal problems. All it is
                                                  >is proof the person signing is properly identified and act
                                                  >voluntarily. The actual effects vary from one jurisdiction to another.
                                                  >
                                                  >Simon
                                                  >
                                                  >Mark Hendershott, Oregon Lawyer
                                                  >
                                                  Plachoya Sobaka insignificant archer; Ravens Fort, Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                                • Mark Hendershott
                                                  ... Precisely why places more enlightened than Texas require the notary to keep records including the identification requested of the customer. We can t
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , May 6, 2001
                                                    At 07:21 AM 5/6/2001 -0500, you wrote:
                                                    >Realy not even that. There is a lawyer in truble with the bar here in Texas
                                                    >becouse his sectary had relative notarize her sig as the lawyers. Don't even
                                                    >what to go where this is going.

                                                    Precisely why places more enlightened than Texas require the notary to keep
                                                    records including the identification requested of the customer. We can't
                                                    prevent all fraud but we can make it harder to accomplish.

                                                    This discussion has now strayed far from archery. I'm through.

                                                    Simon
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