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RE: [SCA-Archery] Change of heart

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  • wyvern@megahits.com
    ... Discussions haven t gotten that far on the SWAG list, but that s the direction I d be interested in taking it. ... Why do you charaterize a number of
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2001
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      > progressing. As long as the guild is open to all from the rankest
      > beginner on up there is no "shadow peerage". Archery is one of the

      Discussions haven't gotten that far on the SWAG list, but that's the
      direction I'd be interested in taking it.

      > train archers, and promote mastery of our subject then the sheer
      > numbers of competent archers becomes a threat and must be dealt with.

      Why do you charaterize a number of competent archers as "a
      threat"? And to whom? And, IMHO, the SCA already *has* "a
      number of competent archers," doesn't it? Who's threatened now
      by the existence of all those competent archers?

      Macsen


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    • jrosswebb1@webtv.net
      Dear Carolous, Who would be the first Guild Masters and how would they arrive at that distinction? Would they come from the rank and file that are trying to
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 2, 2001
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        Dear Carolous,
        Who would be the first Guild Masters and how would they arrive at
        that distinction? Would they come from the rank and file that are trying
        to found the guild? Would they come from OP or OL?
        Who would decide?The guild must be very careful not to be run by Society
        misanthropes, or archers that sound good behind a keyboard, but don't
        look that good on the field. These are all concerns.
        They can be easily addressed, but here is where great care MUST be
        taken.
        -Geoffrei


        http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
      • wyvern@megahits.com
        ... These are the sort of issues I expect will be discussed in time on the SWAG list. My personal opinion is that the Master Archers -- or whatever we end
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 2, 2001
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          > Who would be the first Guild Masters and how would they arrive at
          > that distinction? Would they come from the rank and file that are
          > trying to found the guild? Would they come from OP or OL? Who would

          These are the sort of issues I expect will be discussed in time on
          the SWAG list. My personal opinion is that the "Master Archers" --
          or whatever we end up calling them and *if* the concensus is to
          have guild rankings at all, would be chosen by the other members
          of the guild -- i.e. their peers in archery.

          Macsen


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        • Scott Jaqua
          I believe the below to be very true. Many years ago, I fought hard to gain even a little acceptance for Archery in the Kingdom of Caid. I believe as an
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 2, 2001
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            I believe the below to be very true. Many years ago, I fought hard to gain even a little acceptance for Archery in the Kingdom of Caid. I believe as an accepted period activity, it is now on sound ground (it wasn't at that time). Then the battle (if you will call it such) was over archery as a period activity vs archers as the natural enemy of the chivalry (the whole peasant can take down a Knight thing). The perception at the time was that "Yes of course archery is period, but it doesn't fit in with my vision of the DREAM(tm)". The fight to overcome that view was long and hard. It mostly consisted of small baby steps. Every time someone pushed too hard or fast, we lost ground. We found the way to win the fight, was to be the best that we could be with out trying to look like we were showing-up the powers that be.
            The example of the Order of the White Scarf stated below is valid. In some respects it has been a curse to the Rapier community. However, the one saving grace has been that it is awarded by the crown. In some kingdoms, the order is polled about prospective members. In other kingdoms it is not. But in each case it is the crown that presents the award. And polling the order to me is no more then crown taking letters of recommendation. No matter what the award the crown is always going to look a little harder at a recommendation from someone that has the award.
            While in some kingdoms, Rapier is part of the established order of things. In others it is struggling for simple acceptance. It's my opinion that the White Scarf has not hurt the kingdom where it was founded. However, in other kingdoms it's making it a harder row to hoe for the rapier fighters there. Some do view it as a mini peerage (or a Jumped-up Grant putting on airs). In my opinion it is nothing more then the highest award for the marshal portions of the art of rapier. It is a grant level award in my kingdom and nothing more.

            Don Njall Olaf Hagerson
            (yup I'm one of those swishy pokey types as well)
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Evian Blackthorn


            (snip a lot of stuff)It is the perception that counts. Siegfreid Sebastian Faust, a while back wrote, " In a sense, yes, maybe, one might see this as a 'mini-peerage', but no more so than the White Scarves are (and most I know are pretty adamant that they aren't, don't consider themselves to be, and wouldn't want to be considered as such)." Regardless of how the White Scarves see themselves, there are still a lot of people in the SCA who see the whole White Scarf thing as an attempt to get recognition as Peers, without the Peerage being there. A 'mini-peerage', 'quasi-peerage', or 'pseudo-peerage', which ever term you like. We must not let that happen to the archer's community,............ (snip some more)



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Karl Sandhoff
            The threat is to the existing comfort zone of the existing power structure. Presently, the growing skill level of archers taken as a whole and the possibliity
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 2, 2001
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              The threat is to the existing comfort zone of the existing power
              structure. Presently, the growing skill level of archers taken as a
              whole and the possibliity of signifigant numbers of them becomming
              qualified for peerage level recognition is low. Thus, they can be safely
              ignored by the peerage structure now in place. As greater skill is
              attained and greater numbers of individuals attain that skill, it becomes
              a threat to the currently assumed position to continue to ignore them.
              As this increase occurs, the lack of recognition will become more
              apparent to the general populus and guestions as to the power structure's
              attitude will increase. It was this same pressure which occurred in the
              area of service which resulted in the awarding of the first Pelican. At
              that time it was assumed to be a one time event as there certainly
              couldn't be that many people willing to work that hard. As we have seen,
              that "one time" event changed the entire peerage structure.
              In service to the dream,
              Carolus von Eulenhorst
              eulenhorst@...

              On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:19:15 -0500 wyvern@... writes:
              >> snip <<
              >> train archers, and promote mastery of our subject then the sheer
              >> numbers of competent archers becomes a threat and must be dealt
              >with.
              >
              >Why do you charaterize a number of competent archers as "a
              >threat"? And to whom? And, IMHO, the SCA already *has* "a
              >number of competent archers," doesn't it? Who's threatened now
              >by the existence of all those competent archers?
              >
              >Macsen
              >
              >
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