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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: [SCA-MissileCombat] Grand Fellowship(draft 2)and an idea :)

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  • SwayzeK
    ... My vote would be that there be no levels within the Fellowship. I believe that this would tend to divide us rather than unite us. My kingdom s award is
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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      On Jan 30, 5:01pm, John Edgerton wrote:

      >
      > Should the Fellows require the "highest" kingdom award for archery or
      > should it be "any" kingdom award for archery? Should the Fellowship
      > include holders of all kingdom level archery awards or only those that
      > have the highest?
      >
      > Comments?
      >
      > Jon
      >

      >-- End of excerpt from John Edgerton

      My vote would be that there be no levels within the Fellowship. I believe that
      this would tend to divide us rather than unite us. "My kingdom's award is
      better than your kingdom's award." We don't need this. The Fellowship should
      be open to anyone who has received a kingdom level award for archery. This
      should not be limited to "archery awards", example: The Golden Pheon and the
      Sharparrow in the Outlands. It should also include fighting, service and A&S
      awards given specifically for skill and service as pertains to archery,
      example: a Stag (GOA level service award) for service to archery. I think that
      this would cover the circumstances in all kingdoms.

      Just my nickle's worth (inflation hits again).

      Ailinn Shadowfox
    • SwayzeK
      ... Siegfried, I must respectfully disagree with this. When you have seen the highest level archery award given to someone who shows up at tournaments and
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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        On Jan 31, 8:11am, Siegfried Sebastian Faust wrote:

        > Depends on your goal. In general, I would say that if you are wanting this
        > to show 'excellence' in the field of archery, it should be the highest
        > kingdom level award ... If you are just wanting it to show 'recognition in
        > archery', then give it to all awards.
        >
        > I personally would opt for the first one.
        >
        > Simply because I would want to see this badge, and know that this is a
        > 'great archer of his/her realm'.
        >
        > What I would worry about would be kingdoms that have multiple levels of
        > awards, and that if the lowest level is given VERY frequently, suddenly
        > becoming overrun with these badges ...
        >
        > I feel that the badge should indicate that the owner has: 'Received the
        > highest level of recognition in archery possible in their kingdom.' No
        > matter how that kingdom happens to handle this.
        >
        > Siegfried
        >

        >-- End of excerpt from Siegfried Sebastian Faust

        Siegfried, I must respectfully disagree with this. When you have seen the
        highest level archery award given to someone who shows up at tournaments and
        shoots extremely well or happens to be in the right place to save their
        monarch's person in a battle but they do little else for archery, and they are
        eligible for the fellowship but someone who has been working steadily and
        unfailingly to promote archery for years not be eligible because they don't
        have the highest level award it doesn't make sense to limit the fellowship to
        the top award. What about kindoms who only give non-armigerious awards for
        archery? Would they get in, or would they have to be peers for service or the
        arts before they would be accepted? That would, of course, be the ultimate top
        level award in all kingdoms for archery.

        Ailinn Shadowfox
      • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
        ... Ailinn. I agree that there should not be levels within the Fellowship ... what I also wouldn t like to see however is the fellowship not meet it s goal of
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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          At 07:21 AM 1/31/2001 -0700, you wrote:
          > >
          > > Should the Fellows require the "highest" kingdom award for archery or
          > > should it be "any" kingdom award for archery? Should the Fellowship
          > > include holders of all kingdom level archery awards or only those that
          > > have the highest?
          > >
          > > Comments?
          > >
          > > Jon
          > >
          >
          > >-- End of excerpt from John Edgerton
          >
          >My vote would be that there be no levels within the Fellowship. I believe
          >that
          >this would tend to divide us rather than unite us. "My kingdom's award is
          >better than your kingdom's award." We don't need this. The Fellowship should
          >be open to anyone who has received a kingdom level award for archery. This
          >should not be limited to "archery awards", example: The Golden Pheon and the
          >Sharparrow in the Outlands. It should also include fighting, service and A&S
          >awards given specifically for skill and service as pertains to archery,
          >example: a Stag (GOA level service award) for service to archery. I think
          >that
          >this would cover the circumstances in all kingdoms.
          >
          >Just my nickle's worth (inflation hits again).
          >
          >Ailinn Shadowfox

          Ailinn. I agree that there should not be levels within the Fellowship ...
          what I also wouldn't like to see however is the fellowship not meet it's
          goal of having a standard way of recognizing excellence in archery. If
          every possible low level award for archery is given the fellowship badge,
          then MANY MANY people walking around are going to have one on ... and it
          won't have the meaning behind it of the individual kingdom awards, such as
          the OGGS, and the Sagittarius ...

          If we are going to give this to ANY level of recognized archer ... then why
          are we doing it? It's VERY easy to see who your basic 'good archers/good
          guys' are in 10 minutes on the archery field ... the great point that I see
          behind this is knowing who the GREAT area, which often is a much finer
          detail to be found.

          As an example, I give you the breakout of archery awards for a few kingdoms:

          Middle Kingdom
          37 Greenwood (GoA)
          182 Dragon's Barb (AoA)

          Calontir
          23 Boga-Hirth (GoA)
          103 Boga-Fyrd (AoA)

          Atlantia
          16 Yew Bow (Non-Arm)

          Now I don't happen to be IN any of those myself, but I would rather only
          see the 37, 23, and 16 make into the fellowship than the entire ~300 ...

          Siegfried


          _________________________________________________________________________
          Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Barony of Highland Foorde
          Baronial Web Minister http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
        • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
          ... This is something more along the lines of the guild discussion, and what the guild is trying to solve. The fellowship is supposed to just be a universal
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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            >Siegfried, I must respectfully disagree with this. When you have seen the
            >highest level archery award given to someone who shows up at tournaments and
            >shoots extremely well or happens to be in the right place to save their
            >monarch's person in a battle but they do little else for archery, and they are
            >eligible for the fellowship but someone who has been working steadily and
            >unfailingly to promote archery for years not be eligible because they don't
            >have the highest level award it doesn't make sense to limit the fellowship to
            >the top award.

            This is something more along the lines of the guild discussion, and what
            the guild is trying to solve. The fellowship is supposed to just be a
            universal badge for those that have been recognized.

            > What about kindoms who only give non-armigerious awards for
            >archery?

            Then that is their highest level award for that kingdom ... And at least in
            the kingdoms that I know of like this, whatever their highest level is, is
            approximately equivilant to other kingdoms highest levels. whether a
            kingdom has 3, 2, or 1 awards, and no matter what arms are given with that
            award, whatever their highest level is, seems to have a high level of entry ...

            Siegfried

            (Overall point being that we have to draw a line somewhere, and I would
            rather see it drawn high, than low)
          • sirjon1@pacbell.net
            ... Fellowship ... ... it s ... archery. If ... badge, ... and it ... such as ... then why ... archers/good ... that I see ... finer ... only ... ~300 ... ...
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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              --- In SCA-Archery@y..., Siegfried Sebastian Faust <eliwhite@b...>
              wrote:

              > Ailinn. I agree that there should not be levels within the
              Fellowship ...
              > what I also wouldn't like to see however is the fellowship not meet
              it's
              > goal of having a standard way of recognizing excellence in
              archery. If
              > every possible low level award for archery is given the fellowship
              badge,
              > then MANY MANY people walking around are going to have one on ...
              and it
              > won't have the meaning behind it of the individual kingdom awards,
              such as
              > the OGGS, and the Sagittarius ...
              >
              > If we are going to give this to ANY level of recognized archer ...
              then why
              > are we doing it? It's VERY easy to see who your basic 'good
              archers/good
              > guys' are in 10 minutes on the archery field ... the great point
              that I see
              > behind this is knowing who the GREAT area, which often is a much
              finer
              > detail to be found.
              >
              > As an example, I give you the breakout of archery awards for a few
              kingdoms:
              >
              > Middle Kingdom
              > 37 Greenwood (GoA)
              > 182 Dragon's Barb (AoA)
              >
              > Calontir
              > 23 Boga-Hirth (GoA)
              > 103 Boga-Fyrd (AoA)
              >
              > Atlantia
              > 16 Yew Bow (Non-Arm)
              >
              > Now I don't happen to be IN any of those myself, but I would rather
              only
              > see the 37, 23, and 16 make into the fellowship than the entire
              ~300 ...
              >
              > Siegfried
              >
              > I would be interested to know what percentage of the total archers
              in those kingdoms the 300 and the 76 represent? Are the skills and
              knowledge of those in the Dragons's Barb and the Bpga-Fyrd that much
              less than those in the Greenwood Company and the Boga-Hirth? And much
              greater is the knowledge of the 300 than that of all the other
              archers in those kingdoms?

              Also, of the 76 and the 300, how many are still active or in those
              kingdoms?

              Jon
            • Hugh Prescott
              Greetings Calontir Archery awards information The Hirth presently has 22 members From present Kingdom law. BOGA-HIRTH: Elevation to the Boga-Hirth may be
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 31, 2001
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                Greetings

                Calontir Archery awards information

                The Hirth presently has 22 members
                From present Kingdom law.
                BOGA-HIRTH: Elevation to the Boga-Hirth may be conferred upon those
                individuals meeting certain minimum requirements; including authorization in
                all weapon systems with expertise in at least two. The archer must also
                have demonstrated support for the Calontir army during interkingdom-level
                conflicts. Other qualifications considered shall include leadership,
                activity level and teaching. Said individual must also always display
                unquestionable honor both on and off the field.

                The Fyrd presently has 106 members including the 22 Hirth
                From present kingdom law.
                BOGA-FYRD: Elevation to the Boga-Fyrd may be conferred upon those
                individuals who display proficiency in at least one archery system,
                demonstrate support for the Calontir army on the archery field, and whose
                conduct is consistently honorable both on and off the field.

                The last count of "archers in Calontir" was about 450 verses 420 fighters at
                that time. Archery authorizations and cards were done away 2 years ago so I
                have no present numbers.

                The parallel fighting orders have greater numbers and the Hirth percentage
                is larger. If I recall correctly the Boga Hirth is the smallest order in
                Calontir

                How would I compare our orders to that of the Middle.

                I believe there are less awards given verses population in the Middle than
                in Calontir based on my observations for the past 20 + years. Second I have
                not tallied up the MidRealm numbers for the archery orders.

                Until recently the Middle had a single level award for fighting & archery
                whereas Calontir has had two level award structure since Principality days.
                Also Calontir (Principality and early Kingdom) had none to few peers so the
                Hirth of Calontir were considered very high level ( in terms of skill )
                awards. Some would say that the early fighting Huscarls were "unbelted"
                Knights. So also the early archer Huscarls were highly skilled and most of
                the early ones possessed "peer like" qualities. Times have changes as we now
                have two Laurels for archery activities.

                At the present time I believe that our archery Fyrd could hold their own
                against the Dragons Barb of the Middle. The Archer Hirth appears to be
                consistent with the Company of the Greenwood of the Middle. The latter I
                base on IKAC and Winter Challenge scores reported for the last several
                years. No intent to demean or otherwise insult any order or member is
                intended, these are my thoughts.

                Middle 182 / 37 = 4.9 AOA to 1 GOA ratio
                Calontir 106 / 22= 4.8 AOA to 1 GOA
                Now thats close.

                I live 37 blocks into the Middle but am treatied to Calontir primarily based
                on geography and a disbanded shire. My Lady & I mostly play in Calontir and
                at most major wars but we do occasionally attend MidRealm archery events.
                Four hours drive takes us to the geo. center of Calontir and our local
                group is just across the Mississippi River and 20 miles South. Four hours in
                the Middle gets us 2 hours from Chicago or to the state line at Danville,
                IL.

                Hugh Prescott
                Boga Hirth 17 of 22, Boga Fyrd 69? of 106, Iren Fyrd
                Husband of Lynette Dave'jean, Boga Hirth 19 of 22, Boga Fyrd 70? of 106
                Parents of Alysandria of the Fosse Way, Boga Fyrd
                Parents of Isobel FitzLyon, Boga Fyrd
                Yes, we do archery!

                > > As an example, I give you the breakout of archery awards for a few
                > kingdoms:
                > >
                > > Middle Kingdom
                > > 37 Greenwood (GoA)
                > > 182 Dragon's Barb (AoA)
                > >
                > > Calontir
                > > 23 Boga-Hirth (GoA)
                > > 103 Boga-Fyrd (AoA)
                > >
                > > Atlantia
                > > 16 Yew Bow (Non-Arm)
                > >
                > > Now I don't happen to be IN any of those myself, but I would rather
                > only
                > > see the 37, 23, and 16 make into the fellowship than the entire
                > ~300 ...
                > >
                > > Siegfried
                > >
                > > I would be interested to know what percentage of the total archers
                > in those kingdoms the 300 and the 76 represent? Are the skills and
                > knowledge of those in the Dragons's Barb and the Bpga-Fyrd that much
                > less than those in the Greenwood Company and the Boga-Hirth? And much
                > greater is the knowledge of the 300 than that of all the other
                > archers in those kingdoms?
                >
                > Also, of the 76 and the 300, how many are still active or in those
                > kingdoms?
                >
                > Jon
                >
                >
                >
                >
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