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Re: period archery company - re-re-revisited

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  • Robert L Brunnemer
    Hallo!!! I am posting this to the list, because some people may also be interested, and others, may/probably will have better ideas then myself. I am
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 4, 1999
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      Hallo!!!

      I am posting this to the list, because some people may also be
      interested, and others, may/probably will have better ideas then myself.
      I am completely open to new ideas, and all sorts of suggestions will be
      MORE than welcome.

      Answer first: I thought that the best idea would be to have a group of
      archers that use completely "periodesque" (non modern) archery equipment.
      It would be for the advancement of people wanting to use non-modern
      gear, and to show that you can shoot well without having to use a modern
      recurve. Also I think that it is a spiffy idea. :-)

      Answer second: The way that I figured it would be that it would be a
      company that would span the entire Known World! (Or yes inter kingdom,
      but mine sounded better. :-))

      Answer third: Well I had never even thought of limiting the amount of
      people allowed in it, per kingdom. I really don't see a reason to, but
      if someone thinks it is a good idea then please enlighten me to it.

      Answer fourth: Well I believe that the only requirement would be to have
      to have all non-modern equipment, or period looking equipment. Basically
      no fiberglass recurves or anything. I can't see any other qualifications
      for it, but again if you can think of them, tell me please.

      I hope that eliminates all of your questions. If you have any other
      questions, or if you have any idea how I would be able to start making
      this thing, I would be VERY appreciated! Thank you in advance! And...

      Have a nice day!!!
      Robert
      Hugewheels@...
      Tha mi a'fluich mi kilt!!!

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    • James W. Pratt Jr.
      You might look to the Long Bow Society of England for ideas and pit falls. James Cunningham Not ready to go total period yet.
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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        You might look to the Long Bow Society of England for ideas and pit falls.

        James Cunningham
        Not ready to go total period yet.

        >Answer fourth: Well I believe that the only requirement would be to have
        >to have all non-modern equipment, or period looking equipment. Basically
        >no fiberglass recurves or anything. I can't see any other qualifications
        >for it, but again if you can think of them, tell me please.
        >
      • KC
        Robert, I don t think that this is as easy as you are making it sound (although I wish it was, I love the idea). I basically have some questions as to period
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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          Robert,

          I don't think that this is as easy as you are making it sound (although I
          wish it was, I love the idea). I basically have some questions as to
          period or period looking equipment. Would laminated long bows be allowed?
          How about cut out arrow shelves and sight windows? In other words I think
          that you would have to put in some kind a minimum requirement. It is
          possible to look rather period and still be using modern equipment. I
          personally do not like self notched arrows as I don't like having to
          replace the whole arrow for a broken nock. I haven't seen anyone using
          period arrow heads and would rather not.

          I think that heading in a more period direction should be the goal of all
          serious SCA archers. I am just wondering how far period is this going to
          have to go and do we need to document and get really anal about details (I
          will never use period string material and risk my bow needlessly, etc). I
          am not trying to be mean here, but after watching this list for some time
          now, I can how this could get out of hand real quick and only be fun a few.

          I think that if you are going to do this, then you need to think through
          the period equipment definition fairly well before this goes much further.
          I would like to see more people post how they feel about how period the
          equipment should be. Also, you have my full support and will help in any
          way that I can. I would love to have an SCA competition against nothing
          but longbows with no recurves in sight, but that is just me. I am sure
          that some Mongol or other persona's would disagree, but those should be
          period also.

          Anyway, I am rambling now so it is time to go. I hope this brings up some
          things to think about. Comments and replies are encouraged.

          Karrick


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        • Karl Sandhoff
          Actually, a period bodkin point isn t much different from the field and target points we use now. Carolus von Eulenhorst ... I haven t seen anyone ...
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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            Actually, a period bodkin point isn't much different from the field and
            target points we use now.
            Carolus von Eulenhorst

            On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:00:48 -0500 KC <k_c@...> writes:
            >From: KC <k_c@...>
            >
            >snip<
            I haven't seen anyone
            >using
            >period arrow heads and would rather not.
            >
            >snip<

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          • KC
            A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender point that
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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              A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
              compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
              point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly made
              bodkin has shoulders that are larger than the diameter of the shaft causing
              little or no friction once the point has penetrated. I have made and shot
              bodkins and their ability to penetrate a target is severe compared to an
              almost flat or shouldered target point. Shooting at a Sanders grass mat
              target the bodkin pointed arrows were catching at the fletchings shot from
              a 40 lb. bow. My target arrows were barely coming through the back of the
              target. You can really tell the difference if you shoot one of each at an
              old hub cap.

              Karrick


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            • Bob & Nancy Upson
              ... FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don t penetrate much more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on my arrows and don t
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                > A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
                > compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
                > point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly made

                FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don't penetrate much
                more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on
                my arrows and don't find overpenetration to be a problem. While
                the longer bodkins you alluded to would be problematic, the shorter
                styles are, IMHO, quite acceptable for SCA target use.

                Macsen
              • KC
                Macsen,That s great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                  Macsen,

                  That's great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are
                  they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                  reasonable, I would like to make something like that available on the
                  arrows that I make.

                  Karrick

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Bob & Nancy Upson [SMTP:wyvern@...]
                  Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:01 PM
                  To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] period archery company - re-re-revisited

                  From: "Bob & Nancy Upson" <wyvern@...>

                  > A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
                  > compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
                  > point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly
                  made

                  FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don't penetrate much
                  more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on
                  my arrows and don't find overpenetration to be a problem. While
                  the longer bodkins you alluded to would be problematic, the shorter
                  styles are, IMHO, quite acceptable for SCA target use.

                  Macsen

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                • Bob & Nancy Upson
                  ... I ve just gotten them here and there from Master McDougals when I was apprenticed to him way back when -- I don t know if he d make them in quantity. (He
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                    > That's great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are
                    > they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                    > reasonable, I would like to make something like that available on the
                    > arrows that I make.

                    I've just gotten them here and there from Master McDougals when I
                    was 'apprenticed' to him way back when -- I don't know if he'd make
                    them in quantity. (He generally only used them on his top-of-the-
                    line period arrows.) However, the good news is that they're simply
                    ground out of commercially available bullet or field points. Find the
                    heaviest points you can get, grind the point into a 3 or 4 sided
                    'pyramid' shape, and then rind a narrower neck just behind the
                    pyrimid. You end up with a fair approximation of what I believe he
                    referred to as an "Elizabethan #4 bodkin."*

                    This is the rough profile you want (view with a fixed font):
                    / \ <-- grind tip into a pyramid shape with 3 or 4 sides
                    / \ removing as little material as possible
                    ) ( <-- grind a narrow waist below the pyramid taking
                    |_--_| care to stay above the hollow ferrule
                    [/ \] <-- hollow ferrule for wood shaft
                    [ ]

                    This tip will actually pierce metal much better than a field point but
                    doesn't, IMHO, tend to destroy targets unreasonably. (Although it
                    probably would loosen and/or wear out something like a Saunders
                    mat faster than regular field points.)

                    *(Sorry, I don't recall the source of documentation for the "E#4" bit
                    although others on the list might be familiar with it. =)

                    Macsen
                  • KC
                    Thanks Macsen. I will have to try and make some of these. Karrick ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                      Thanks Macsen. I will have to try and make some of these.

                      Karrick


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