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period archery company - re-re-revisited

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  • Robert L Brunnemer
    Hallo!!! Well I see that there is a pretty good amount of people that are interested in this. So is there anyone that can tell me how I could start to start
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 31, 1999
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      Hallo!!!

      Well I see that there is a pretty good amount of people that are
      interested in this. So is there anyone that can tell me how I could
      start to start this thing? :-) Maybe a web page you could lead me to?
      Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also we are going to need a name.
      Any ideas?

      Have a nice day!!!
      Robert
      Hugewheels@...
      Tha mi a'fluich mi kilt!!!

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    • John Rockwell
      Greetings Robert First is this a company of Archers that exist for the sake of the Archers? Second, will this be an Intra Kingdom Company or will there be
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 4, 1999
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        Greetings Robert

        First is this a company of Archers that exist for the sake of the Archers?
        Second, will this be an Intra Kingdom Company or will there be boundries?
        Third, will the size of the company be limited within each Kingdom?
        Fourth, how will an Archer gain acceptance to the company?
        I ask the above because I am not able to find the original posts trying to
        refresh my memory.



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Robert L Brunnemer <hugewheels@...>
        To: <SCA-Archery@onelist.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 5:23 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] period archery company - re-re-revisited


        > From: Robert L Brunnemer <hugewheels@...>
        >
        > Hallo!!!
        >
        > Well I see that there is a pretty good amount of people that are
        > interested in this. So is there anyone that can tell me how I could
        > start to start this thing? :-) Maybe a web page you could lead me to?
        > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also we are going to need a name.
        > Any ideas?
        >
        The first things that will be need Is a name for the company.
        The second thing that will be needed is a device for the company. Question:
        how will the device for the Company be registered, Will it be done thru a
        Kingdom, or how (will need a heralds opinion on this one)?

        Since the membership of the list is a good cross section of archers of the
        Known World I think the members of the list could come up with an idea for
        either an armband(tippet), favor. Or something that could be worn above the
        belt this way the company members could reconize each other.

        Think about it a group of Archers on the field and the King and Queen, Baron
        and Baroness are on the field and a salute with whistling arrows is given by
        a company of Green Archers (name just poped into my head). This also could
        be done at coranation

        my mind what is left of it is going crazy

        HOOPAH
        VIVAT
        HAZZAH
        and What is said in your Kingdom

        Good Shooting

        Lord Ian Griffen the Archer

        > Have a nice day!!!
        > Robert
        > Hugewheels@...
        > Tha mi a'fluich mi kilt!!!
        >
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      • Robert L Brunnemer
        Hallo!!! I am posting this to the list, because some people may also be interested, and others, may/probably will have better ideas then myself. I am
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 4, 1999
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          Hallo!!!

          I am posting this to the list, because some people may also be
          interested, and others, may/probably will have better ideas then myself.
          I am completely open to new ideas, and all sorts of suggestions will be
          MORE than welcome.

          Answer first: I thought that the best idea would be to have a group of
          archers that use completely "periodesque" (non modern) archery equipment.
          It would be for the advancement of people wanting to use non-modern
          gear, and to show that you can shoot well without having to use a modern
          recurve. Also I think that it is a spiffy idea. :-)

          Answer second: The way that I figured it would be that it would be a
          company that would span the entire Known World! (Or yes inter kingdom,
          but mine sounded better. :-))

          Answer third: Well I had never even thought of limiting the amount of
          people allowed in it, per kingdom. I really don't see a reason to, but
          if someone thinks it is a good idea then please enlighten me to it.

          Answer fourth: Well I believe that the only requirement would be to have
          to have all non-modern equipment, or period looking equipment. Basically
          no fiberglass recurves or anything. I can't see any other qualifications
          for it, but again if you can think of them, tell me please.

          I hope that eliminates all of your questions. If you have any other
          questions, or if you have any idea how I would be able to start making
          this thing, I would be VERY appreciated! Thank you in advance! And...

          Have a nice day!!!
          Robert
          Hugewheels@...
          Tha mi a'fluich mi kilt!!!

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        • James W. Pratt Jr.
          You might look to the Long Bow Society of England for ideas and pit falls. James Cunningham Not ready to go total period yet.
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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            You might look to the Long Bow Society of England for ideas and pit falls.

            James Cunningham
            Not ready to go total period yet.

            >Answer fourth: Well I believe that the only requirement would be to have
            >to have all non-modern equipment, or period looking equipment. Basically
            >no fiberglass recurves or anything. I can't see any other qualifications
            >for it, but again if you can think of them, tell me please.
            >
          • KC
            Robert, I don t think that this is as easy as you are making it sound (although I wish it was, I love the idea). I basically have some questions as to period
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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              Robert,

              I don't think that this is as easy as you are making it sound (although I
              wish it was, I love the idea). I basically have some questions as to
              period or period looking equipment. Would laminated long bows be allowed?
              How about cut out arrow shelves and sight windows? In other words I think
              that you would have to put in some kind a minimum requirement. It is
              possible to look rather period and still be using modern equipment. I
              personally do not like self notched arrows as I don't like having to
              replace the whole arrow for a broken nock. I haven't seen anyone using
              period arrow heads and would rather not.

              I think that heading in a more period direction should be the goal of all
              serious SCA archers. I am just wondering how far period is this going to
              have to go and do we need to document and get really anal about details (I
              will never use period string material and risk my bow needlessly, etc). I
              am not trying to be mean here, but after watching this list for some time
              now, I can how this could get out of hand real quick and only be fun a few.

              I think that if you are going to do this, then you need to think through
              the period equipment definition fairly well before this goes much further.
              I would like to see more people post how they feel about how period the
              equipment should be. Also, you have my full support and will help in any
              way that I can. I would love to have an SCA competition against nothing
              but longbows with no recurves in sight, but that is just me. I am sure
              that some Mongol or other persona's would disagree, but those should be
              period also.

              Anyway, I am rambling now so it is time to go. I hope this brings up some
              things to think about. Comments and replies are encouraged.

              Karrick


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            • Karl Sandhoff
              Actually, a period bodkin point isn t much different from the field and target points we use now. Carolus von Eulenhorst ... I haven t seen anyone ...
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 5, 1999
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                Actually, a period bodkin point isn't much different from the field and
                target points we use now.
                Carolus von Eulenhorst

                On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:00:48 -0500 KC <k_c@...> writes:
                >From: KC <k_c@...>
                >
                >snip<
                I haven't seen anyone
                >using
                >period arrow heads and would rather not.
                >
                >snip<

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              • KC
                A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender point that
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                  A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
                  compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
                  point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly made
                  bodkin has shoulders that are larger than the diameter of the shaft causing
                  little or no friction once the point has penetrated. I have made and shot
                  bodkins and their ability to penetrate a target is severe compared to an
                  almost flat or shouldered target point. Shooting at a Sanders grass mat
                  target the bodkin pointed arrows were catching at the fletchings shot from
                  a 40 lb. bow. My target arrows were barely coming through the back of the
                  target. You can really tell the difference if you shoot one of each at an
                  old hub cap.

                  Karrick


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                • Bob & Nancy Upson
                  ... FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don t penetrate much more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on my arrows and don t
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                    > A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
                    > compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
                    > point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly made

                    FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don't penetrate much
                    more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on
                    my arrows and don't find overpenetration to be a problem. While
                    the longer bodkins you alluded to would be problematic, the shorter
                    styles are, IMHO, quite acceptable for SCA target use.

                    Macsen
                  • KC
                    Macsen,That s great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                      Macsen,

                      That's great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are
                      they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                      reasonable, I would like to make something like that available on the
                      arrows that I make.

                      Karrick

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Bob & Nancy Upson [SMTP:wyvern@...]
                      Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:01 PM
                      To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                      Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] period archery company - re-re-revisited

                      From: "Bob & Nancy Upson" <wyvern@...>

                      > A bodkin point may not look a whole lot different, but the penetration
                      > compared to target point is quite different. A bodkin has a long slender
                      > point that offers very little resistance as it penetrates. A properly
                      made

                      FWIW, there are period bodkin designs that don't penetrate much
                      more than a standard field or bullet point. I have a few of them on
                      my arrows and don't find overpenetration to be a problem. While
                      the longer bodkins you alluded to would be problematic, the shorter
                      styles are, IMHO, quite acceptable for SCA target use.

                      Macsen

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                    • Bob & Nancy Upson
                      ... I ve just gotten them here and there from Master McDougals when I was apprenticed to him way back when -- I don t know if he d make them in quantity. (He
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                        > That's great. Would you happen to have a source for those points or are
                        > they just short run items. If there is a good source and the price is
                        > reasonable, I would like to make something like that available on the
                        > arrows that I make.

                        I've just gotten them here and there from Master McDougals when I
                        was 'apprenticed' to him way back when -- I don't know if he'd make
                        them in quantity. (He generally only used them on his top-of-the-
                        line period arrows.) However, the good news is that they're simply
                        ground out of commercially available bullet or field points. Find the
                        heaviest points you can get, grind the point into a 3 or 4 sided
                        'pyramid' shape, and then rind a narrower neck just behind the
                        pyrimid. You end up with a fair approximation of what I believe he
                        referred to as an "Elizabethan #4 bodkin."*

                        This is the rough profile you want (view with a fixed font):
                        / \ <-- grind tip into a pyramid shape with 3 or 4 sides
                        / \ removing as little material as possible
                        ) ( <-- grind a narrow waist below the pyramid taking
                        |_--_| care to stay above the hollow ferrule
                        [/ \] <-- hollow ferrule for wood shaft
                        [ ]

                        This tip will actually pierce metal much better than a field point but
                        doesn't, IMHO, tend to destroy targets unreasonably. (Although it
                        probably would loosen and/or wear out something like a Saunders
                        mat faster than regular field points.)

                        *(Sorry, I don't recall the source of documentation for the "E#4" bit
                        although others on the list might be familiar with it. =)

                        Macsen
                      • KC
                        Thanks Macsen. I will have to try and make some of these. Karrick ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 6, 1999
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                          Thanks Macsen. I will have to try and make some of these.

                          Karrick


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