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Strings

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  • Evian Blackthorn
    Ragnar Ketilsson wrote, In one of the Sagas, a hero named Gunnar dies because his wife will not give him her hair for a replacement bowstring. I ll look up the
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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      Ragnar Ketilsson wrote,"In one of the Sagas, a hero named Gunnar dies
      because his wife will not give him her hair for a replacement bowstring.
      I'll look up the reference tonite."

      I would be VERY interested in learning which saga this is in. Please do look
      up the reference. If possible, also include information on where it might be
      found online, if it is online.
      Thanks!
      Evian Blackthorn
      of THE WEB
    • Bruce R. Gordon
      Greetings Not to one-up Ragnar, but I have the sagas on a shelf next to my computer. The incident so described involves Gunnar Hamundarson; his demise is
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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        Greetings
        Not to one-up Ragnar, but I have the sagas on a shelf next to my computer.
        The incident so described involves Gunnar Hamundarson; his demise is described
        in chapters 76 and 77 of Njal's Saga, and is exactly as Ragnar spoke of it;
        Gunnar is beseiged in his home by a group intent on murdering him after he had
        been declared out-law by the Thing. He defends himself well with halberd and a
        bow, but one assailant manages to cut his string. He asks his wife for two locks
        of hair, and she refuses in order to avenge him slapping her sometime earlier.
        An on-line version can be found at
        http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/
        The relevant file within that archive (Part 5, sections 72-86) is at
        http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/5part.html
        My paperback copy here (Penguin Classics, 1972 reprint) includes a footnote
        on the incident, in which the translators note that the use of a womans hair as
        an emergency bowstring is a common theme in Latin literature and art motifs.
        Again, apologies to Ragnar, but I couldn't resist looking it up since it was
        immediately at hand.

        Nigel FitzMaurice

        Evian Blackthorn wrote:

        > Ragnar Ketilsson wrote,"In one of the Sagas, a hero named Gunnar dies
        > because his wife will not give him her hair for a replacement bowstring.
        > I'll look up the reference tonite."
        >
        > I would be VERY interested in learning which saga this is in. Please do look
        > up the reference. If possible, also include information on where it might be
        > found online, if it is online.
        > Thanks!
        > Evian Blackthorn
        > of THE WEB
        >
        >
        > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
        > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        >
        > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]

        --

        Ex Tenebra, Lux

        http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
      • D Humberson
        No apology needed, Nigel - I had no online reference, and so am also enriched by your post. Thanks, and look for some scores after Christmas( I m actually
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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          No apology needed, Nigel - I had no online reference, and so am also
          enriched by your post. Thanks, and look for some scores after Christmas(
          I'm actually taking TIME OFF for a change!)

          Ragnar Ketilsson


          >From: "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...>
          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
          >To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Strings
          >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:13:10 -0500
          >
          >Greetings
          > Not to one-up Ragnar, but I have the sagas on a shelf next to my
          >computer.
          >The incident so described involves Gunnar Hamundarson; his demise is
          >described
          >in chapters 76 and 77 of Njal's Saga, and is exactly as Ragnar spoke of it;
          >Gunnar is beseiged in his home by a group intent on murdering him after he
          >had
          >been declared out-law by the Thing. He defends himself well with halberd
          >and a
          >bow, but one assailant manages to cut his string. He asks his wife for two
          >locks
          >of hair, and she refuses in order to avenge him slapping her sometime
          >earlier.
          > An on-line version can be found at
          > http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/
          > The relevant file within that archive (Part 5, sections 72-86) is at
          >
          >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/5part.html
          > My paperback copy here (Penguin Classics, 1972 reprint) includes a
          >footnote
          >on the incident, in which the translators note that the use of a womans
          >hair as
          >an emergency bowstring is a common theme in Latin literature and art
          >motifs.
          > Again, apologies to Ragnar, but I couldn't resist looking it up since
          >it was
          >immediately at hand.
          >
          >Nigel FitzMaurice
          >
          >Evian Blackthorn wrote:
          >
          > > Ragnar Ketilsson wrote,"In one of the Sagas, a hero named Gunnar dies
          > > because his wife will not give him her hair for a replacement bowstring.
          > > I'll look up the reference tonite."
          > >
          > > I would be VERY interested in learning which saga this is in. Please do
          >look
          > > up the reference. If possible, also include information on where it
          >might be
          > > found online, if it is online.
          > > Thanks!
          > > Evian Blackthorn
          > > of THE WEB
          > >
          > >
          > > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
          > > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
          > >
          > > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
          > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
          >
          >--
          >
          >Ex Tenebra, Lux
          >
          >http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
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        • Evian Blackthorn
          Vitruvius, (Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, Rome, 1st cenury BC) writing in De Architectura about siege engines wrote, For instance, holes are made in the
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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            Vitruvius, (Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, Rome, 1st cenury BC) writing in 'De
            Architectura' about siege engines wrote, "For instance, holes are made in
            the capitals, and through them are brought the cords, made either of woman's
            hair, or of gut, which are proportioned to the weight of the stone that the
            balista is to throw,....". Vit.Book 10, Ch.11, vs.2.
            Not that this has anything to do with archery, but evidently, it was common
            in ancient Rome to use womens hair for cordage. At least where strength and
            durability were of a concern, as in the twisted skeins of a catapult. And as
            for Njal's Saga showing an 'emergency' situation. Yes, it does. That is why
            THREE primary sources are required for PROOF. This could count as one. Even
            if all three showed the use of hair in emergency situations, the fact that
            it was repeatedly used for this purpose would show that must have been
            somewhat in common knowledge that it would serve for this purpose. Surely
            not everyone then was named Magivar (??sp).
            Evian Blackthorn
            of THE WEB
          • D Humberson
            Has anyone else gotten this from Hotmail recently? Ragnar Ketilsson +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is an automatically
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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              Has anyone else gotten this from Hotmail recently?


              Ragnar Ketilsson

              +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


              This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

              THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

              YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

              Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.

              SCA-Archery@egroups.com




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              From:
              "D Humberson" <dhumbers@...>
              To:
              SCA-Archery@egroups.com
              Subject:
              Re: [SCA-Archery] Documentation vs common sense
              Date:
              Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:00:11 -0500

              Geoffrei,

              Could you publish more detail on the know failure modes for sinew strings?
              I am doing a technical analysis of strength of period string materials,
              pulling data from the available engineering literature on things like creep,
              stretch, aging and abrasion resistance. Sinew does not appear in current
              lit, and any knowlege you might have about known failures will definitely
              help guide test design. This cycle is focused on fiber performance( yarn
              tests, to be technical), while later ones will be more oriented to actual
              string performance.

              Thanks in advance,
              Ragnar Ketilsson




              From: jrosswebb1@...
              Reply-To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
              To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Documentation vs common sense
              Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:00:00 -0500 (EST)

              There is some documentation to string material used in Northern
              Europe and in Britain(sorry, but that's my period). It comes from the
              list of what archers were required to have by Edward II. Linen is
              mentioned. Linen is again mentioned at the time of Henry V (sorry
              again).
              There is a very good treatise on strings that were used during
              the golden era of the British longbow(I know I'm getting somebody mad
              now) that appears on line in the archives of the Society of Archers
              Antiquaire.
              There is also discussion on the topic in Hardy's book (second
              hand information, yes, but he does footnote).
              As a regional Commander here in the East Kingdom, I can say
              with authority that if you wish to make a string out of gut or sinew for
              an A&S competition go ahead and more power to you. But you cannot shoot
              a bow on the line with such a string, it's against the rules.(by now, a
              number of you are steaming mad, I know) We all know that such strings
              were period, but they have had a bad history in SCA archery. (Now before
              anybody blows their top, it's a safety issue, we really don't want
              anyone to get hurt. okay?)
              There are quite a number of period references to silk strings as
              well, especially in Eastern cultures, but there are "suggested "
              possibilities that silk was used in Europe and by (dare I say it?) the
              British longbowman.
              Respectfully,
              -Geoffrei


              http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal



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            • jrosswebb1@webtv.net
              To Ragnar, I will check into what literature that I have on sinew and rawhide and post it after the holidays. My experience is a practical one, from years of
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 20, 2000
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                To Ragnar,
                I will check into what literature that I have on sinew and rawhide
                and post it after the holidays. My experience is a practical one, from
                years of working with sinew and rawhide.
                I did not make the rules against it, but as an officer of the
                marshallate it is my job to enforce the rules, on animal hide or sinew
                strings as well as string walking (which is forbidden in the East
                Kingdom).
                Sinew is a very strong cordage when it is fresh and an excellent
                backing for bows, as is rawhide( both permitted as backing), but as
                strings, they degrade quickly and there is not a sufficient way of
                inspecting them because they don't show wear the same way as more modern
                materials. A good rubbing with wax will often disguise the problem in
                sinew and rawhide strings. When they go, they go all at once. Yes these
                types of strings were definitely used in period and no one disputes
                that. They are just not allowed.
                I have seen sinew strings snap on many occassions in other groups that I
                have shot with. When you see the string afterward, the outside looks
                fine, but the core has become brittle and obviously fatigued.
                One of my other hobbies is hand drumming. My lady and I play
                djembe and perform with some West African dance and drum groups. We also
                import and sell djembes and rehead them all of the time. I normally have
                30 or 40 goatskins around. They can last on a drum for years or weeks.
                When they go it is dramatic. Goat is one of the strongest rawhides, but
                all you need is just one weak spot from an old injury to the animal or
                just a variation in the skin and they can tear like a piece of paper.
                There is never a fair warning like you might get on a linen or B-50
                string when it appears dry or one strand starts to go.
                Most of the people who are arguing about alternate string
                materials and string walking point to their "old" (modern world ca.
                1960's - now) wood and fiberglass laminated recurves and extoll the
                virtues of this "old" bow and how it performs so well with, let's say
                stringwalking. Modern bows are made to be more forgiving of poor form
                and release. They can be overdrawn by many inches without much harm to
                them. Some can be "dry fired" repeatedly without harm to the bow. You
                don't have that same luxury with period equipment. A string snapping can
                be disastrous to the bow, to say nothing of you. This is true of
                longbows and period composites. If you don't believe me and want to
                argue about it, go ahead and do what you wish, but please don't do it on
                an SCA range. We have a real good safety record, and I'd like to keep it
                that way.
                (That last bit wasn't directed at you Ragnar.)
                Respectfully,
                -Geoffrei


                http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
              • Karl Sandhoff
                Good as modern materials can be, they are also subject to catastrophic failure. On the line at the 84 Olympics a young man was drawing a top of the line Hoyt
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 21, 2000
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                  Good as modern materials can be, they are also subject to catastrophic
                  failure. On the line at the '84 Olympics a young man was drawing a top
                  of the line Hoyt TD-3 recurve using a Kevlar string. He experienced a
                  catastrophic faliure of the string with no warning. We were picking up
                  pieces of his bow from 20 meters down range and 10 meters to each side.
                  The failure was so complete that even the riser and sight were unusable
                  and had to be replaced. If this had occurred on a more crowded SCA range
                  I am sure we would have been calling ambulances.
                  In service to the dream,
                  Carolus von Eulenhorst

                  On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:11:36 -0500 (EST) jrosswebb1@... writes:
                  >To Ragnar,
                  > I will check into what literature that I have on sinew and
                  >rawhide
                  >and post it after the holidays. My experience is a practical one, from
                  >years of working with sinew and rawhide.
                  > I did not make the rules against it, but as an officer of the
                  >marshallate it is my job to enforce the rules, on animal hide or sinew
                  >strings as well as string walking (which is forbidden in the East
                  >Kingdom).
                  > Sinew is a very strong cordage when it is fresh and an excellent
                  >backing for bows, as is rawhide( both permitted as backing), but as
                  >strings, they degrade quickly and there is not a sufficient way of
                  >inspecting them because they don't show wear the same way as more
                  >modern
                  >materials. A good rubbing with wax will often disguise the problem in
                  >sinew and rawhide strings. When they go, they go all at once. Yes
                  >these
                  >types of strings were definitely used in period and no one disputes
                  >that. They are just not allowed.
                  >I have seen sinew strings snap on many occassions in other groups that
                  >I
                  >have shot with. When you see the string afterward, the outside looks
                  >fine, but the core has become brittle and obviously fatigued.
                  > One of my other hobbies is hand drumming. My lady and I play
                  >djembe and perform with some West African dance and drum groups. We
                  >also
                  >import and sell djembes and rehead them all of the time. I normally
                  >have
                  >30 or 40 goatskins around. They can last on a drum for years or weeks.
                  >When they go it is dramatic. Goat is one of the strongest rawhides,
                  >but
                  >all you need is just one weak spot from an old injury to the animal or
                  >just a variation in the skin and they can tear like a piece of paper.
                  >There is never a fair warning like you might get on a linen or B-50
                  >string when it appears dry or one strand starts to go.
                  > Most of the people who are arguing about alternate string
                  >materials and string walking point to their "old" (modern world ca.
                  >1960's - now) wood and fiberglass laminated recurves and extoll the
                  >virtues of this "old" bow and how it performs so well with, let's say
                  >stringwalking. Modern bows are made to be more forgiving of poor form
                  >and release. They can be overdrawn by many inches without much harm to
                  >them. Some can be "dry fired" repeatedly without harm to the bow. You
                  >don't have that same luxury with period equipment. A string snapping
                  >can
                  >be disastrous to the bow, to say nothing of you. This is true of
                  >longbows and period composites. If you don't believe me and want to
                  >argue about it, go ahead and do what you wish, but please don't do it
                  >on
                  >an SCA range. We have a real good safety record, and I'd like to keep
                  >it
                  >that way.
                  > (That last bit wasn't directed at you Ragnar.)
                  >Respectfully,
                  >-Geoffrei
                  >
                  >
                  >http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
                  >
                  >
                  >-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                  >
                  >Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
                  >http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                  >
                  >Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                  >
                  >

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                • D Humberson
                  Geoffrei, I ve responded to your points below, but you mentioned you keep goatskin rawhide in stock - how is it sold, and what prices do you charge? I m
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 21, 2000
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                    Geoffrei,

                    I've responded to your points below, but you mentioned you keep goatskin
                    rawhide in stock - how is it sold, and what prices do you charge? I'm
                    interested in backing some 36" prods, and might also be able to use
                    relatively small stringlike scraps for a related project.

                    To you and the whole list, a Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year!

                    Ragnar Ketilsson


                    >From: jrosswebb1@... Reply-To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com To:
                    >SCA-Archery@egroups.com Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Strings Date: Thu, 21
                    >Dec 2000 00:11:36 -0500 (EST)
                    >
                    >To Ragnar, I will check into what literature that I have on sinew and
                    >rawhide and post it after the holidays. My experience is a practical one,
                    >from years of working with sinew and rawhide.

                    Thanks much, Geoffrei! This post has itself suggested at least one test
                    cycle to examine effects repetitive bending stress on sinew fiber. I hope
                    to draw on your experience in more depth after Christmas, if you have the
                    time and inclination.

                    >(snip). (That last bit wasn't directed at you Ragnar.)

                    No problem - I enforce Aethelmearc archery policy just like you do Eastern
                    policy, and both agree on string material standards. I may work like hell
                    to change a policy with which I disagree, but while it's in force I will
                    enforce it.
                    >Respectfully, -Geoffrei
                    >
                    >
                    >http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
                    >
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                  • James W. Pratt Jr.
                    Greetings Ragnar, Geoffrei and list Add this to your documentation of string failures. 26 strands B-50 on a 140 lb steel prod shot a minimum of two years
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 21, 2000
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                      Greetings Ragnar, Geoffrei and list

                      Add this to your documentation of string failures. 26 strands B-50 on a
                      140 lb steel prod shot a minimum of two years averaging one to two IKAC per
                      week. It was served with three layers of B4 nylon at the tips and middle.
                      The outer layer at the middle was reserved from 5 to ten times. It broke in
                      the middle where the string hit the bolt. The string broke at the end of the
                      power stroke(the last bolt hit the gold area of the target). This is the
                      first time I had seen a string truly wear out.

                      The others I have seen fail have failed at the loops (as in dry firing), or
                      a cut string. Other failures involved a strand or two only. I have seen
                      artificial sinew strings wear and break at the loops.

                      > Ragnar Ketilsson
                      >
                      > Subject:
                      > Re: [SCA-Archery] Documentation vs common sense
                      > Date:
                      > Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:00:11 -0500
                      >
                      > Geoffrei,
                      >
                      > Could you publish more detail on the know failure modes for sinew strings?
                      > I am doing a technical analysis of strength of period string materials,
                      > pulling data from the available engineering literature on things like
                      creep,
                      > stretch, aging and abrasion resistance. Sinew does not appear in current
                      > lit, and any knowlege you might have about known failures will definitely
                      > help guide test design. This cycle is focused on fiber performance( yarn
                      > tests, to be technical), while later ones will be more oriented to actual
                      > string performance.
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance,
                      > Ragnar Ketilsson
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: jrosswebb1@...
                      > Reply-To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
                      > To: SCA-Archery@egroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Documentation vs common sense
                      > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:00:00 -0500 (EST)
                      >
                      > There is some documentation to string material used in Northern
                      > Europe and in Britain(sorry, but that's my period). It comes from the
                      > list of what archers were required to have by Edward II. Linen is
                      > mentioned. Linen is again mentioned at the time of Henry V (sorry
                      > again).
                      > There is a very good treatise on strings that were used during
                      > the golden era of the British longbow(I know I'm getting somebody mad
                      > now) that appears on line in the archives of the Society of Archers
                      > Antiquaire.
                      > There is also discussion on the topic in Hardy's book (second
                      > hand information, yes, but he does footnote).
                      > As a regional Commander here in the East Kingdom, I can say
                      > with authority that if you wish to make a string out of gut or sinew
                      for
                      > an A&S competition go ahead and more power to you. But you cannot shoot
                      > a bow on the line with such a string, it's against the rules.(by now, a
                      > number of you are steaming mad, I know) We all know that such strings
                      > were period, but they have had a bad history in SCA archery. (Now
                      before
                      > anybody blows their top, it's a safety issue, we really don't want
                      > anyone to get hurt. okay?)
                      > There are quite a number of period references to silk strings as
                      > well, especially in Eastern cultures, but there are "suggested "
                      > possibilities that silk was used in Europe and by (dare I say it?) the
                      > British longbowman.
                      > Respectfully,
                      > -Geoffrei
                      >
                      >
                      > http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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                      >
                      > Reply
                      > _________________________________________________________________
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
                      > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                      >
                      > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                      > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >
                    • richard johnson
                      My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding nock-supports (I have NO
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 24, 2013
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                        My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                        bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                        nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                        the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                        usual...

                        Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                        old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                        to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                        it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                        candles, not parrafin!

                        While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                        every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                        threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                        in my sewing kit save for the color.

                        This got me thinking.

                        For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?


                        --
                        Rick Johnson
                        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                        security will soon find that they have neither."
                      • Bill Tait
                        Typical dacron bowstrings are made with Brownell B-50. I dont know if the heavy leather sewing thread has the same tensile properties. For $10 / 1/4# spool,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 24, 2013
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                          Typical dacron bowstrings are made with Brownell B-50. I dont know if the heavy leather sewing thread has the same tensile properties.

                          For $10 / 1/4# spool, why not get the right stuff?

                          I've been using different fibers lately, all of which will kill most bows older than the 80's.

                          William.

                          On 2013-06-24 3:17 PM, "richard johnson" <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                           

                          My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                          bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                          nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                          the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                          usual...

                          Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                          old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                          to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                          it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                          candles, not parrafin!

                          While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                          every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                          threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                          in my sewing kit save for the color.

                          This got me thinking.

                          For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?

                          --
                          Rick Johnson
                          http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                          security will soon find that they have neither."

                        • jdrago75
                          Brownell B50 or BCY B55. All of the other synthetic strings I make are only for bows that specifically made to use Fast Flight string material. My next major
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 24, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Brownell B50 or BCY B55. All of the other synthetic strings I make are only for bows that specifically made to use Fast Flight string material. My next major project is a English War Bow and I'm going to use Irish linen thread to make the string and hope it survives the first use. 

                            -Lord William Douglas


                            On Jun 24, 2013, at 5:17 PM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:

                             

                            My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                            bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                            nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                            the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                            usual...

                            Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                            old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                            to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                            it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                            candles, not parrafin!

                            While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                            every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                            threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                            in my sewing kit save for the color.

                            This got me thinking.

                            For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?

                            --
                            Rick Johnson
                            http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                            "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                            security will soon find that they have neither."

                          • Bill Tait
                            A better term would be low stretch synthetic . Fast Flight is only one of many low stretch fibers. Some bows can use FF, Dynaflite 97, or some others that
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 24, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment

                              A better term would be "low stretch synthetic". Fast Flight is only one of many low stretch fibers. Some bows can use FF, Dynaflite 97, or some others that have more give. At the other end, I have one string that is BCY 452X. This is typically used for compound bow bus cables. It has extremely low stretch and creep properties.

                              I know that for the lay person, any modern string is "Fast Flight", just as we all use KLEENEX  and Q-tips...

                              William

                              (Loving my 8190 and 019 Halo serving)

                              On 2013-06-24 3:54 PM, "jdrago75" <jdrago75@...> wrote:
                               

                              Brownell B50 or BCY B55. All of the other synthetic strings I make are only for bows that specifically made to use Fast Flight string material. My next major project is a English War Bow and I'm going to use Irish linen thread to make the string and hope it survives the first use. 

                              -Lord William Douglas


                              On Jun 24, 2013, at 5:17 PM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:

                               

                              My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                              bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                              nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                              the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                              usual...

                              Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                              old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                              to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                              it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                              candles, not parrafin!

                              While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                              every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                              threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                              in my sewing kit save for the color.

                              This got me thinking.

                              For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?

                              --
                              Rick Johnson
                              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                              security will soon find that they have neither."

                            • Taslen
                              William, When you make the linen string write it up with pictures and I will run it in the Quivers and Quarrels Gaelen O Gradaigh Co Editor Quivers and
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 24, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                William,

                                When you make the linen string write it up with pictures and I will run it in the Quivers and Quarrels

                                Gaelen O'Gradaigh
                                Co Editor Quivers and Quarrels the official SCA archery publication



                                From: Bill Tait <arwemakere@...>
                                To: sca-archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:38 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Strings

                                 
                                A better term would be "low stretch synthetic". Fast Flight is only one of many low stretch fibers. Some bows can use FF, Dynaflite 97, or some others that have more give. At the other end, I have one string that is BCY 452X. This is typically used for compound bow bus cables. It has extremely low stretch and creep properties.
                                I know that for the lay person, any modern string is "Fast Flight", just as we all use KLEENEX  and Q-tips...
                                William
                                (Loving my 8190 and 019 Halo serving)
                                On 2013-06-24 3:54 PM, "jdrago75" <jdrago75@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Brownell B50 or BCY B55. All of the other synthetic strings I make are only for bows that specifically made to use Fast Flight string material. My next major project is a English War Bow and I'm going to use Irish linen thread to make the string and hope it survives the first use. 

                                -Lord William Douglas


                                On Jun 24, 2013, at 5:17 PM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:

                                 
                                My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                                bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                                nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                                the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                                usual...

                                Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                                old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                                to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                                it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                                candles, not parrafin!

                                While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                                every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                                threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                                in my sewing kit save for the color.

                                This got me thinking.

                                For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?

                                --
                                Rick Johnson
                                http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                security will soon find that they have neither."


                              • Taslen
                                As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a 35pound pull ELB that
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.

                                  Gaelen






                                • jdrago75
                                  Flemish Twist is at http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/features/flemishstring/flemishstring.html -Lord William Douglas
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    -Lord William Douglas


                                    On Jun 25, 2013, at 5:06 AM, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.

                                    Gaelen






                                  • Doug Copley
                                    Yes please do! And also please include a couple of test shots and if it stretched from those, or if it blew up:-) Vincenti Ansteorra
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Yes please do! And also please include a couple of test shots and if it stretched from those, or if it blew up:-)

                                      Vincenti
                                      Ansteorra


                                      On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      William,

                                      When you make the linen string write it up with pictures and I will run it in the Quivers and Quarrels

                                      Gaelen O'Gradaigh
                                      Co Editor Quivers and Quarrels the official SCA archery publication



                                      From: Bill Tait <arwemakere@...>
                                      To: sca-archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:38 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Strings

                                       
                                      A better term would be "low stretch synthetic". Fast Flight is only one of many low stretch fibers. Some bows can use FF, Dynaflite 97, or some others that have more give. At the other end, I have one string that is BCY 452X. This is typically used for compound bow bus cables. It has extremely low stretch and creep properties.
                                      I know that for the lay person, any modern string is "Fast Flight", just as we all use KLEENEX  and Q-tips...
                                      William
                                      (Loving my 8190 and 019 Halo serving)
                                      On 2013-06-24 3:54 PM, "jdrago75" <jdrago75@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      Brownell B50 or BCY B55. All of the other synthetic strings I make are only for bows that specifically made to use Fast Flight string material. My next major project is a English War Bow and I'm going to use Irish linen thread to make the string and hope it survives the first use. 

                                      -Lord William Douglas


                                      On Jun 24, 2013, at 5:17 PM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:

                                       
                                      My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                                      bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                                      nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                                      the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                                      usual...

                                      Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                                      old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                                      to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                                      it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                                      candles, not parrafin!

                                      While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                                      every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                                      threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                                      in my sewing kit save for the color.

                                      This got me thinking.

                                      For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?

                                      --
                                      Rick Johnson
                                      http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                      "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                      security will soon find that they have neither."



                                    • The Greys
                                      I make my own bow strings and have scared my dogs with a few well placed adjectives during the process a time or two. But having said that I ll share what
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I make my own bow strings and have scared my dogs with a few well placed adjectives during the process a time or two. But having said that I'll share what I've been told/learned about making bow strings.

                                        First nomenclature. When I say Dacron, I'm referring to Dacron B-50 type string material. When I say Fast Flight I'm referring to the newer low stretch materials.

                                        My experience is that older bows were not designed for the low stretch of the newer Fast Flight materials. I was told by my favorite bowyer who puts antler limb tips on his bows, that if the antler is deer you can use fast flight. However, he also uses moose which he says is softer thus should use dacron. So I have always followed the rule of old bow, dacron, new bow fast flight.

                                        I have a Cold Mountain longbow that was designed for fast flight string and it really does make a BIG difference in bow performance between using a dacron or fast flight string.

                                        A note on bees wax for strings, mix in a little vegetable oil. It makes the wax a bit softer and easier to work into the string.

                                        cog

                                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                                        > bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                                        > nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                                        > the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                                        > usual...
                                        >
                                        > Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                                        > old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                                        > to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                                        > it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                                        > candles, not parrafin!
                                        >
                                        > While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                                        > every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                                        > threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                                        > in my sewing kit save for the color.
                                        >
                                        > This got me thinking.
                                        >
                                        > For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Rick Johnson
                                        > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                        > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                        > security will soon find that they have neither."
                                        >
                                      • Janyn Fletcher
                                        I agree with what COG said. I have been making my own strings for over 20 years now. You need to make sure that your bow is able to handle the FF string
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I agree with what COG said. I have been making my own strings for over 20 years now. You need to make sure that your bow is able to handle the FF string materials. Every bow is different and this would be important. I prefer endless loop strings over Flemish twist even though they are more modern than the Flemish. Also I use FF strings over Dacron because it performs better and doesn't stretch as much generally. I use 452+ or TS28 for my crossbow strings. You can make a very simple string jig for less than $100 if you get the pre made posts and under $50 if you do it yourself.
                                           
                                          In Service,
                                           
                                          Janyn Fletcher, DEM Atlantia

                                          From: The Greys <cogworks@...>
                                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:35 AM
                                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Strings
                                           
                                          I make my own bow strings and have scared my dogs with a few well placed adjectives during the process a time or two. But having said that I'll share what I've been told/learned about making bow strings.

                                          First nomenclature. When I say Dacron, I'm referring to Dacron B-50 type string material. When I say Fast Flight I'm referring to the newer low stretch materials.

                                          My experience is that older bows were not designed for the low stretch of the newer Fast Flight materials. I was told by my favorite bowyer who puts antler limb tips on his bows, that if the antler is deer you can use fast flight. However, he also uses moose which he says is softer thus should use dacron. So I have always followed the rule of old bow, dacron, new bow fast flight.

                                          I have a Cold Mountain longbow that was designed for fast flight string and it really does make a BIG difference in bow performance between using a dacron or fast flight string.

                                          A note on bees wax for strings, mix in a little vegetable oil. It makes the wax a bit softer and easier to work into the string.

                                          cog

                                          --- In mailto:SCA-Archery%40yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > My new 45# longbow arrived Saturday from GI Bow for $55. And I
                                          > bought a couple extra strings for when I wear these out. Am adding
                                          > nock-supports (I have NO idea of how to add bone or horn tips), dying
                                          > the wood mahogany & red, wrapping a grip and arrow-shelf... the
                                          > usual...
                                          >
                                          > Then I collected a bunch of Beeswax Candle stubs and melted them in an
                                          > old crock pot, poured the melted wax into a cheap zip-lock container
                                          > to cool and while it was still soft, popped it from the mold and cut
                                          > it into blocks so I'd always have bowstring wax. Note: Beeswax
                                          > candles, not parrafin!
                                          >
                                          > While doing this and examining the new bowstrings I realized that
                                          > every one of my bowstrings is synthetic! I also discovered that the
                                          > threads are exactly the same as a large spool of black dacron I have
                                          > in my sewing kit save for the color.
                                          >
                                          > This got me thinking.
                                          >
                                          > For those of you who make bowstrings, what do you use and why?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Rick Johnson
                                          > http://rick-johnson.webs.com/
                                          > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                          > security will soon find that they have neither."
                                          >

                                        • lekervere
                                          For twisting the string, there are many tutorials online, with video. You will notice not all of them use the same methods. You can pick and choose, and find
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            For twisting the string, there are many tutorials online, with video. You will notice not all of them use the same methods. You can pick and choose, and find what works for you. Some people swear by two-strand strings. I prefer three strands.
                                            My own experience has shown me a few things, which I will offer here. Lightweight strings shoot faster. Most string tutorials show overbuilt strings, usually meant to achieve a particular diameter, to allow the arrow nock to clip onto the string. With proper shooting form the arrow does not have to grip the string, mostly. Thumb shooters may prefer it. Anyway, the rule of thumb for safety is that a bow string should test at four times the draw poundage of the bow. You don't need to build a whole string and test it to failure. Just take a thread of whatever you want to use for string, tie it to a secure dowel or peg, wrap it around a few times and attach a fish scale to the tail. Now pull it until it breaks. You can repeat this several times to be certain, but it is likely you will come up with a consistent breaking strength. Take your bow weight, multiply by four and divide by the breaking strength, and you will have the minimum number of threads for a bow string. You can add a bit for more safety. The breaking strength of B-50 is 33 pounds. Now you see what I mean by overbuilt. For roundness I make most of my strings from three stands of three threads each. With a center serving, these will catch a nock clip, barely. Natural fiber threads, like linen, will figure out to a lot more threads, but bear in mind these fibers are lighter in weight than dacron, so the overall weight of a linen string may be similar to a synthetic string.
                                            Concerning wax, when building flemish strings, you want the string to stay twisted and neatly laid while working. I use a mixture of beeswax and brewers pitch on the ends of the string that form the loop and the tapered tail. This mixture is called palm. Its stickier than beeswax, though once everything is laid up, it doesn't seem to attract more dirt than plain wax. It really keeps those errant treads in line.
                                            I use a bowyer's knot at one end of the bow. Some string makers will call this unacceptable, but I've never had one fail. For heavier bows, up in the 60 and 70 pound range it may be better to lay in the two loops.

                                            Edward le Kervere

                                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.
                                            >
                                            > Gaelen
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ________________________________
                                            >
                                          • richard johnson
                                            now THIS single post was extremely informative!!!! Brewers pitch? Is this common pine sap that can be melted down to make glue? I gather that it can also be
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              now THIS single post was extremely informative!!!!


                                              Brewers pitch?
                                              Is this common pine sap that can be melted down to make glue?
                                              I gather that it can also be used to coat the inside of leather or
                                              horn drinking vessels?
                                              What is the mixture with beeswax.. how much pitch to how much beeswax
                                              for archery?


                                              On 6/25/13, lekervere <edwoodguy@...> wrote:
                                              > For twisting the string, there are many tutorials online, with video. You
                                              > will notice not all of them use the same methods. You can pick and choose,
                                              > and find what works for you. Some people swear by two-strand strings. I
                                              > prefer three strands.
                                              > My own experience has shown me a few things, which I will offer here.
                                              > Lightweight strings shoot faster. Most string tutorials show overbuilt
                                              > strings, usually meant to achieve a particular diameter, to allow the arrow
                                              > nock to clip onto the string. With proper shooting form the arrow does not
                                              > have to grip the string, mostly. Thumb shooters may prefer it. Anyway, the
                                              > rule of thumb for safety is that a bow string should test at four times the
                                              > draw poundage of the bow. You don't need to build a whole string and test it
                                              > to failure. Just take a thread of whatever you want to use for string, tie
                                              > it to a secure dowel or peg, wrap it around a few times and attach a fish
                                              > scale to the tail. Now pull it until it breaks. You can repeat this several
                                              > times to be certain, but it is likely you will come up with a consistent
                                              > breaking strength. Take your bow weight, multiply by four and divide by the
                                              > breaking strength, and you will have the minimum number of threads for a bow
                                              > string. You can add a bit for more safety. The breaking strength of B-50 is
                                              > 33 pounds. Now you see what I mean by overbuilt. For roundness I make most
                                              > of my strings from three stands of three threads each. With a center
                                              > serving, these will catch a nock clip, barely. Natural fiber threads, like
                                              > linen, will figure out to a lot more threads, but bear in mind these fibers
                                              > are lighter in weight than dacron, so the overall weight of a linen string
                                              > may be similar to a synthetic string.
                                              > Concerning wax, when building flemish strings, you want the string to stay
                                              > twisted and neatly laid while working. I use a mixture of beeswax and
                                              > brewers pitch on the ends of the string that form the loop and the tapered
                                              > tail. This mixture is called palm. Its stickier than beeswax, though once
                                              > everything is laid up, it doesn't seem to attract more dirt than plain wax.
                                              > It really keeps those errant treads in line.
                                              > I use a bowyer's knot at one end of the bow. Some string makers will call
                                              > this unacceptable, but I've never had one fail. For heavier bows, up in the
                                              > 60 and 70 pound range it may be better to lay in the two loops.
                                              >
                                              > Edward le Kervere
                                              >
                                              > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our
                                              >> anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a
                                              >> 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.
                                              >>
                                              >> Gaelen
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> ________________________________
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              --
                                              Rick Johnson
                                              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                              security will soon find that they have neither."
                                            • lekervere
                                              I m glad you liked my post. Yes, brewer s pitch is pine sap, and I do also use it to seal leather vessels. I think its a mixture of pine sap and mineral oil,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 25, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I'm glad you liked my post.
                                                Yes, brewer's pitch is pine sap, and I do also use it to seal leather vessels. I think its a mixture of pine sap and mineral oil, mostly pine sap. For the palm, you could use plain pine sap. I think the mixture is one part pitch to four parts beeswax. Its been a while and I didn't take notes. One thumb size lump has done for maybe two dozen bow strings, and is still two thirds unused.
                                                I buy brewer's pitch by the pound from the James Townsend and Sons Catalog online. For those working on more period kits, and who have some skill with leather, look up bottels and leather jacks online. You can buy them made up, but some use an epoxy product to seal the inside. The trouble with this is, once its cracked, you can't fix it. When the brewer's pitch develops a leak, you warm it by the fire until the pitch flows and it reseals.

                                                Edward le Kervere

                                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > now THIS single post was extremely informative!!!!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Brewers pitch?
                                                > Is this common pine sap that can be melted down to make glue?
                                                > I gather that it can also be used to coat the inside of leather or
                                                > horn drinking vessels?
                                                > What is the mixture with beeswax.. how much pitch to how much beeswax
                                                > for archery?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On 6/25/13, lekervere <edwoodguy@...> wrote:
                                                > > For twisting the string, there are many tutorials online, with video. You
                                                > > will notice not all of them use the same methods. You can pick and choose,
                                                > > and find what works for you. Some people swear by two-strand strings. I
                                                > > prefer three strands.
                                                > > My own experience has shown me a few things, which I will offer here.
                                                > > Lightweight strings shoot faster. Most string tutorials show overbuilt
                                                > > strings, usually meant to achieve a particular diameter, to allow the arrow
                                                > > nock to clip onto the string. With proper shooting form the arrow does not
                                                > > have to grip the string, mostly. Thumb shooters may prefer it. Anyway, the
                                                > > rule of thumb for safety is that a bow string should test at four times the
                                                > > draw poundage of the bow. You don't need to build a whole string and test it
                                                > > to failure. Just take a thread of whatever you want to use for string, tie
                                                > > it to a secure dowel or peg, wrap it around a few times and attach a fish
                                                > > scale to the tail. Now pull it until it breaks. You can repeat this several
                                                > > times to be certain, but it is likely you will come up with a consistent
                                                > > breaking strength. Take your bow weight, multiply by four and divide by the
                                                > > breaking strength, and you will have the minimum number of threads for a bow
                                                > > string. You can add a bit for more safety. The breaking strength of B-50 is
                                                > > 33 pounds. Now you see what I mean by overbuilt. For roundness I make most
                                                > > of my strings from three stands of three threads each. With a center
                                                > > serving, these will catch a nock clip, barely. Natural fiber threads, like
                                                > > linen, will figure out to a lot more threads, but bear in mind these fibers
                                                > > are lighter in weight than dacron, so the overall weight of a linen string
                                                > > may be similar to a synthetic string.
                                                > > Concerning wax, when building flemish strings, you want the string to stay
                                                > > twisted and neatly laid while working. I use a mixture of beeswax and
                                                > > brewers pitch on the ends of the string that form the loop and the tapered
                                                > > tail. This mixture is called palm. Its stickier than beeswax, though once
                                                > > everything is laid up, it doesn't seem to attract more dirt than plain wax.
                                                > > It really keeps those errant treads in line.
                                                > > I use a bowyer's knot at one end of the bow. Some string makers will call
                                                > > this unacceptable, but I've never had one fail. For heavier bows, up in the
                                                > > 60 and 70 pound range it may be better to lay in the two loops.
                                                > >
                                                > > Edward le Kervere
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Taslen <taslen2000@> wrote:
                                                > >>
                                                > >> As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our
                                                > >> anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a
                                                > >> 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Gaelen
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> ________________________________
                                                > >>
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Rick Johnson
                                                > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                                > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
                                                > security will soon find that they have neither."
                                                >
                                              • Taslen
                                                thanks for the information I will be starting soon Gaelen ________________________________ From: lekervere To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 26, 2013
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                                                  thanks for the information I will be starting soon

                                                  Gaelen


                                                  From: lekervere <edwoodguy@...>
                                                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:06 PM
                                                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Strings newbie help?

                                                   
                                                  For twisting the string, there are many tutorials online, with video. You will notice not all of them use the same methods. You can pick and choose, and find what works for you. Some people swear by two-strand strings. I prefer three strands.
                                                  My own experience has shown me a few things, which I will offer here. Lightweight strings shoot faster. Most string tutorials show overbuilt strings, usually meant to achieve a particular diameter, to allow the arrow nock to clip onto the string. With proper shooting form the arrow does not have to grip the string, mostly. Thumb shooters may prefer it. Anyway, the rule of thumb for safety is that a bow string should test at four times the draw poundage of the bow. You don't need to build a whole string and test it to failure. Just take a thread of whatever you want to use for string, tie it to a secure dowel or peg, wrap it around a few times and attach a fish scale to the tail. Now pull it until it breaks. You can repeat this several times to be certain, but it is likely you will come up with a consistent breaking strength. Take your bow weight, multiply by four and divide by the breaking strength, and you will have the minimum number of threads for a bow string. You can add a bit for more safety. The breaking strength of B-50 is 33 pounds. Now you see what I mean by overbuilt. For roundness I make most of my strings from three stands of three threads each. With a center serving, these will catch a nock clip, barely. Natural fiber threads, like linen, will figure out to a lot more threads, but bear in mind these fibers are lighter in weight than dacron, so the overall weight of a linen string may be similar to a synthetic string.
                                                  Concerning wax, when building flemish strings, you want the string to stay twisted and neatly laid while working. I use a mixture of beeswax and brewers pitch on the ends of the string that form the loop and the tapered tail. This mixture is called palm. Its stickier than beeswax, though once everything is laid up, it doesn't seem to attract more dirt than plain wax. It really keeps those errant treads in line.
                                                  I use a bowyer's knot at one end of the bow. Some string makers will call this unacceptable, but I've never had one fail. For heavier bows, up in the 60 and 70 pound range it may be better to lay in the two loops.

                                                  Edward le Kervere

                                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Taslen <taslen2000@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > As the newest string maker here (my lady made me a string jig for our anniversary) where do I start looking for how to articles I shoot a 35pound pull ELB that I had made for me.
                                                  >
                                                  > Gaelen
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ________________________________
                                                  >



                                                • Caterina Fortuna
                                                  My lord has experimented some with modern materials, like certain types of fishing line, dacron, fast flight,... What this means it s some of his strings are
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jul 2, 2013
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                                                    My lord has experimented some with modern materials, like certain types of fishing line, dacron, fast flight,...
                                                    What this means it's some of his strings are very thin. So thin that I requested a thicker serving to keep my fingers from hurting. The thicker the bowstring the slower it responds. We check our arrow velocity at our local archery shop. This is helpful when tuning your bow...
                                                    Serving (thread) comes in different thicknesses. You can also add an extra layer or two in the area where your fingers pull.
                                                    We compromised by making a thin string with a thicker serving where my fingers pull.
                                                    Cat

                                                  • Bill Tait
                                                    There is also a risk of making the string too thin, resulting in what is called a critical string. If it is too thin, it will not react the same from shot to
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                                      There is also a risk of making the string too thin, resulting in what is called a "critical" string. If it is too thin, it will not react the same from shot to shot. I played once with different string thicknesses and brace heights. The guideline for B-50 (Dacron) is 3-4 lbs (bow poundage) per strand. My 30# should have had 8 as a "thin" string. 6 was far too few :) It lasted 13 shots before letting go. Thankfully it didn't fail catastrophically, but rather the brace height dropped to just a few inches.

                                                      PS: A good finger tab will keep your fingers from hurting, and will improve your consistency.

                                                      William Arwemakere



                                                      On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Caterina Fortuna <cat4tuna@...> wrote:
                                                       

                                                      My lord has experimented some with modern materials, like certain types of fishing line, dacron, fast flight,...
                                                      What this means it's some of his strings are very thin. So thin that I requested a thicker serving to keep my fingers from hurting. The thicker the bowstring the slower it responds. We check our arrow velocity at our local archery shop. This is helpful when tuning your bow...
                                                      Serving (thread) comes in different thicknesses. You can also add an extra layer or two in the area where your fingers pull.
                                                      We compromised by making a thin string with a thicker serving where my fingers pull.
                                                      Cat


                                                    • The Greys
                                                      Considering the bow is an ancient weapon it is truly amazing how much physics goes into it s functioning. How many on this list have ever wondered how far
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                                        Considering the bow is an ancient weapon it is truly amazing how much physics goes into it's functioning. How many on this list have ever wondered how far they could throw an arrow? I know I couldn't throw one even 20 yards much less with any degree of accuracy. Thus when a bow is drawn the energy of the bent limbs is stored. Upon release of the string that energy is transferred to the arrow causing it to fly to the bulls eye - or at least that's what we hope! :-) ANYTHING added to the string or bow limbs takes away from the energy going to the arrow. Thus thicker strings, nock points, string silencers, servings all detract from the energy transferred to the arrow. Even things like end caps some folks put on their limb tips detracts. Again, basic physics, it takes energy to move these things, energy that does not go into the arrow.

                                                        Personally I like string silencers and nock points. I use Dacron B-50 on most of my bows as that is what's recommended by their maker. I have one Cold Mountain longbow that I use FastFlight strings on because, again, that's what the maker recommends. However, I will say one day shooting, I rather stupidly pulled the arrow nock off the string during the draw without knowing it, and fired the bow. Fortunately it did not break but it snapped off a sliver of the limb tip veneer. So "Don't dry fire your bow" means a great deal to me these days!

                                                        cog

                                                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Caterina Fortuna <cat4tuna@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > My lord has experimented some with modern materials, like certain types of
                                                        > fishing line, dacron, fast flight,...
                                                        > What this means it's some of his strings are very thin. So thin that I
                                                        > requested a thicker serving to keep my fingers from hurting. The thicker
                                                        > the bowstring the slower it responds. We check our arrow velocity at our
                                                        > local archery shop. This is helpful when tuning your bow...
                                                        > Serving (thread) comes in different thicknesses. You can also add an extra
                                                        > layer or two in the area where your fingers pull.
                                                        > We compromised by making a thin string with a thicker serving where my
                                                        > fingers pull.
                                                        > Cat
                                                        >
                                                      • Siegfried
                                                        Your rule is simpler than mine. Mine has always been walking through the following mention formula: 1. B-50 is rated at 50 lbs 2.1 However on an endless loop
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                                          Your rule is simpler than mine. Mine has always been walking through
                                                          the following mention formula:

                                                          1. B-50 is rated at 50 lbs

                                                          2.1 However on an endless loop string, you have half as many at the ends
                                                          2.2 On a Flemish string, the 'weave' is only 50% as strong.

                                                          3. Therefore, you need to at least double it.

                                                          4. Now, multiply by 4 for a safety factor. Because, ummm, yeah. BE SAFE.

                                                          ;)

                                                          So that meant to me: 30# bow? means I need at least 2 strands, so I
                                                          make an 8 strand string.

                                                          80# combat crossbow? I'd need 4 strands. So I make a 16 strand string.

                                                          130# crossbow? I'd need 6 strands, so I make a 24 strand string.

                                                          ... It's a lot more rough of math, and if I'm close to a limit (50, 100,
                                                          150), I'll add an extra bundle of 4. So a 50# bow gets 12 strand, 100#
                                                          crossbow gets 20 strand, and 150# crossbow gets 28.

                                                          Siegfried


                                                          On 7/3/13 3:06 AM, Bill Tait wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > There is also a risk of making the string too thin, resulting in what is
                                                          > called a "critical" string. If it is too thin, it will not react the
                                                          > same from shot to shot. I played once with different string thicknesses
                                                          > and brace heights. The guideline for B-50 (Dacron) is 3-4 lbs (bow
                                                          > poundage) per strand. My 30# should have had 8 as a "thin" string. 6 was
                                                          > far too few :) It lasted 13 shots before letting go. Thankfully it
                                                          > didn't fail catastrophically, but rather the brace height dropped to
                                                          > just a few inches.
                                                          >
                                                          > PS: A good finger tab will keep your fingers from hurting, and will
                                                          > improve your consistency.
                                                          >
                                                          > William Arwemakere
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Caterina Fortuna <cat4tuna@...
                                                          > <mailto:cat4tuna@...>> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > __
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > My lord has experimented some with modern materials, like certain
                                                          > types of fishing line, dacron, fast flight,...
                                                          > What this means it's some of his strings are very thin. So thin that
                                                          > I requested a thicker serving to keep my fingers from hurting. The
                                                          > thicker the bowstring the slower it responds. We check our arrow
                                                          > velocity at our local archery shop. This is helpful when tuning your
                                                          > bow...
                                                          > Serving (thread) comes in different thicknesses. You can also add an
                                                          > extra layer or two in the area where your fingers pull.
                                                          > We compromised by making a thin string with a thicker serving where
                                                          > my fingers pull.
                                                          > Cat
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >

                                                          --
                                                          Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                                                          http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
                                                        • Fritz
                                                          ... Argh! The dreaded string jig! OK _I_ dread it. I have enough STUFF already and this bulky item only does _one_ thing. BTW, the infinitive of the verb for
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                                            > Flemish Twist is at
                                                            > http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/features/flemishstring/flemishstring.html

                                                            Argh! The dreaded string jig!
                                                            OK _I_ dread it.
                                                            I have enough STUFF already and this bulky item only does _one_ thing.

                                                            BTW, the infinitive of the verb for the twisting we do to make one of
                                                            these strings is "to twine".

                                                            -----------------

                                                            "FLEMISH" BOWSTRINGS - WITHOUT THE JIG

                                                            All you need to make a bowstring is the string material, some beeswax,
                                                            the bow, a sharp knife (scissors will do if you aren't safe with a
                                                            knife), and two hands (though I know a kid who I bet can do this with
                                                            his only hand.)

                                                            Cut all your strands the same length; about a hand-span longer than the bow.

                                                            Cut enough strands for their total strength to equal four times the
                                                            poundage of the bow. This number is X. Make sure it's an even number,
                                                            have an extra instead of going short.

                                                            Make two bundles with equal numbers of strands.

                                                            Shift the strands in each bundle relative to each other, 1/8", 3/16",
                                                            even 1/4".
                                                            It depends on the size and number of the strands and the sort of taper
                                                            you want.

                                                            Draw the strands over the wax in a group until you have wax enough on
                                                            them to keep them in order.

                                                            Add X/4 10" strands at one end of each bundle, these will strengthen the
                                                            loop.

                                                            Stagger their ends too.

                                                            Wax them in.

                                                            Lay the reinforced ends of the bundles next to each other with the
                                                            remaining strands headed in opposite directions.
                                                            (This is more awkward than having the bundles heading in the same
                                                            direction, but I'm more comfortable with the idea of the actual bundles
                                                            pulling _against_ each other. Same direction may be fine, but I don't
                                                            know it.)

                                                            Twine the center until you have enough for the loop to slide partway
                                                            down the top of the bow.

                                                            Join the legs together, long with short, and twine about an inch past
                                                            the end of the last reinforcing strand.

                                                            Leave the strands straight (and _equally_ tensioned) until about four
                                                            inches above your expected nocking point. (Everything's going to
                                                            stretch, you may even have to re-twine this string once it has. It's a
                                                            learning experience.)

                                                            Twine the bundles for an inch.

                                                            Add in a 12" or 14" strand by its center. Adding half of it to each bundle.

                                                            Twine about 1/4".

                                                            Add another such strand by its center.

                                                            Continue adding strands in this manner until you have achieved the
                                                            thickness required to fit the nocks of your arrows.
                                                            (Do a test beforehand so you know how many to cut.)

                                                            Twine about an inch past the end of the last reinforcing strand.

                                                            About 11" from the ends of the bundles, twine the bundles for an inch.

                                                            As with the nocking area, add in X/4 20" strands by their centers. These
                                                            will reinforce the area that will become the bowyer's knot or timber
                                                            hitch, your choice.

                                                            Twine until there's nothing left.

                                                            I often finish with the smallest figure-8 knot I can manage at the very tip.

                                                            Ta da! Bowstring!
                                                            One that you need not worry about untwisting.

                                                            -----------------

                                                            I leave the straight parts as long as I can, a string that is entirely
                                                            twined is springy and less efficient than otherwise. And it's faster to
                                                            make.

                                                            Make your major brace-height adjustments by altering the knot. When the
                                                            string has stretched (in the heat of the day (can we not talk about how
                                                            I know this)) you can make fine adjustments by twisting the string
                                                            tighter. And if need be, looser.

                                                            I have made strings in this manner _on_the_range_ at Pensic for myself
                                                            and for others. No jigs, just wax, string, and a knife. 30 to 45 minutes.
                                                            You can do it too.
                                                            Amaze your friends.


                                                            Fritz, Sagg, OL, etc.


                                                            P.S. I once watch Edward the Grey make a quick string in about 3
                                                            minutes. Two colors at that! It was heavy, but it worked.
                                                          • ladyjohannatrewpeny
                                                            Share some Pictures next time you make one that way Fritz. It sounds interesting! I have forgotten my jig when I was running an archery repair night but
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jul 4, 2013
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                                                              Share some Pictures next time you make one that way Fritz. It sounds interesting!


                                                              I have forgotten my jig when I was running an 'archery repair' night but found that one can make twisted loop flemish strings without it. We wrapped the strings around two chair backs to get the proper length (bow length + about 10 inches per end) and used scissors to nip 1/2 inches off creating that frayed end which allows the bundle to fade into the string rather than leave a clump.
                                                              It worked better than I thought and we had several loaner bows up and ready by that evening.

                                                              When teaching new string makers I give them a mnemonic that helps me remember which way I'm going. "Twist away, fold back."

                                                              I do advise new stringmakers to use two different colors. It's much easier to match which bundle is which when weaving the ends back in to form the loop and this is one thing that can make your string fail if you get it wrong......and they're pretty! Baronial or Kingdom colors if you're using the Dacron make a nice touch to your loaner gear. Black stays looking nicer than white due to the dust and stuff the wax picks up, but a red/white striped 'candycane' string is almost worth remaking occasionally for the kids.



                                                              Ladies can also use this twist for their hair with a long scarf. Split hair in half, drape scarf on neck, lean forward. Starting at the nape of the neck and working toward the temple on each side fold hair around scarf until the temple is reached. Now separate scarf from hair and 'Flemish Twist'. Twist the other side of the hair in reverse. Cross the two, Making sure the 'rope' is laid on the downhill side of the roll that's attached to your head. Wrap the finished 'ropes' around and tie them in the back. No pins are needed, if done properly it will last all day. It's great for keeping that lovely hair out of the way of your bow's string, is cool for summmer, makes a good foundation for a hat or something to pin your veil to without killing your scalp. Gentlemen need not wait for your maid to braid your locks for 3 hours as it can be done in 3 minutes or less with practice!

                                                              Brightly,
                                                              Lady Johanna
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