Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Crossbow period back quiver

Expand Messages
  • John Edgerton
    I found, in the online Philadelphia Art Museum collection, this Spanish 1505 depiction of a back quiver on a crossbowman. This is the first I have seen of such
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 16, 2014
      I found, in the online Philadelphia Art Museum collection, this Spanish 1505 depiction of a back quiver on a crossbowman. This is the first I have seen of such an example. Has anyone else seen one before?

      Jon

      http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/103629.html?mulR=118402833|2
    • Karl W. Evoy
      Shooting at Holy Cows, tisk tisk :) Interesting quiver; I m not sure I see the advantage over a hip quiver for crossbows, though. Maybe one less thing on the
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 17, 2014
        Shooting at Holy Cows, tisk tisk :)
         
        Interesting quiver; I'm not sure I see the advantage over a hip quiver for crossbows, though.
        Maybe one less thing on the belt, esp. while riding?
        Ancel
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:27 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow period back quiver

         

        I found, in the online Philadelphia Art Museum collection, this Spanish 1505 depiction of a back quiver on a crossbowman. This is the first I have seen of such an example. Has anyone else seen one before?

        Jon

      • JonThomme De Claydon
        It seems viable. Grasping the bolt thru the cut away part of the quiver, up and out the cut. I could see them bouncing out if not closed before riding. I have
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 17, 2014
          It seems viable. Grasping the bolt thru the cut away part of the quiver, up and out the cut. I could see them bouncing out if not closed before riding. I have not seen this before.

          ​JT
        • J. Hughes
          Sir Jon, I found the image very interesting for more than just the quiver. Donahoe s Magazine, Volume 18 July 1887 to January 1888 p 91 gives the legend of
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 17, 2014
            Sir Jon,
            I found the image very interesting for more than just the quiver.
            Donahoe's Magazine, Volume 18 July 1887 to January 1888 p 91 gives the legend of shooting the bull. A arrow shot into a cave during the shooting of the bull was flung back at the archer. A bishop praying revealed that it was St Michael himself in the cave and the saint wanted a church built on the spot. Since the depictions show crossbowmen as well as hand bowmen, I would presume that one could switch out bolt for arrow.
            There are several paintings of this legend ranging from early Spanish to colonial Mexico. The Shooting of the Bull on Mount Gargano by Master of Armures is for auction at Sotheby’s is one of them
             I was unable to firmly date and place the image from the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Do you have details or should I dispatch my agents in the Philadelphia area?
             Charles O'Connor
            On Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:40 AM, Karl W. Evoy <kweancel@...> wrote:
             
            Shooting at Holy Cows, tisk tisk :)
             
            Interesting quiver; I'm not sure I see the advantage over a hip quiver for crossbows, though.
            Maybe one less thing on the belt, esp. while riding?
            Ancel
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:27 PM
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow period back quiver

             
            I found, in the online Philadelphia Art Museum collection, this Spanish 1505 depiction of a back quiver on a crossbowman. This is the first I have seen of such an example. Has anyone else seen one before?

            Jon



          • John Edgerton
            If you click on the site: http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/103629.html?mulR=118402833|2 The information is in the center. Spain c.1515. I think
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 17, 2014
              If you click on the site:
              The information is in the center. Spain c.1515.

              I think a reason for the back quiver, rather than the more common belt quiver, would be to remove excess items from the belt. In the future I am going to observe period illustrations of archers more carefully to see if there are any archers that do not have belt quivers or a quiver on the ground, to see if they have a pair of straps on their chest that might support a back quiver of this style. It seems likely that the straps would either cross each other or have a connecting strap between them. Otherwise one might think that the quiver would slide down the back as the archer moved. 

              Jon


              From: J. Hughes <jphughessr@...>
              To: "SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 8:36 AM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow period back quiver

               
              Sir Jon,
              I found the image very interesting for more than just the quiver.
              Donahoe's Magazine, Volume 18 July 1887 to January 1888 p 91 gives the legend of shooting the bull. A arrow shot into a cave during the shooting of the bull was flung back at the archer. A bishop praying revealed that it was St Michael himself in the cave and the saint wanted a church built on the spot. Since the depictions show crossbowmen as well as hand bowmen, I would presume that one could switch out bolt for arrow.
              There are several paintings of this legend ranging from early Spanish to colonial Mexico. The Shooting of the Bull on Mount Gargano by Master of Armures is for auction at Sotheby’s is one of them
               I was unable to firmly date and place the image from the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Do you have details or should I dispatch my agents in the Philadelphia area?
               Charles O'Connor
              On Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:40 AM, Karl W. Evoy <kweancel@...> wrote:
               
              Shooting at Holy Cows, tisk tisk :)
               
              Interesting quiver; I'm not sure I see the advantage over a hip quiver for crossbows, though.
              Maybe one less thing on the belt, esp. while riding?
              Ancel
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:27 PM
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Crossbow period back quiver

               
              I found, in the online Philadelphia Art Museum collection, this Spanish 1505 depiction of a back quiver on a crossbowman. This is the first I have seen of such an example. Has anyone else seen one before?

              Jon





            • John Edgerton
              Here is one of a shoulder quiver in an Italian fresco of Genoese crossbowmen c. 1583-1588.
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 17, 2014
                Here is one of a shoulder quiver in an Italian fresco of Genoese crossbowmen c. 1583-1588.

                http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lazzaro_Tavarone-Balestrieri_genovesi.jpg

                Jon
              • houseofgrey
                In looking at the picture it appears to me that the quiver is open on the sides. This would allow the crossbowman to reach back, grab a bolt on the side and
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 18, 2014
                  In looking at the picture it appears to me that the quiver is open on the sides.  This would allow the crossbowman to reach back, grab a bolt on the  side and remove it from the quiver.  3Rivers used to sell a side style quiver like this.  It was basically a tube with a large section in the middle upper side cut out.  This way the archer could grab the arrow, slide it up a bit to clear the point from the bottom of the quiver, then slide it back down to extract it from the quiver.  The thought process was that if one were hunting it would involve very small, quiet movements thereby not spooking the game.  For a crossbowman it would, as pointed out, remove clutter from the belt.

                  Just my observations,
                  cog
                • richard johnson
                  I ve seen this design often. BUT is it actually workable? or just to be used for hunting varmants close to home? Try running with that and see how many arrows
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 18, 2014
                    I've seen this design often.
                    BUT
                    is it actually workable?
                    or just to be used for hunting varmants close to home?

                    Try running with that and see how many arrows fall out.


                    On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 5:10 AM, <cogworks@...> wrote:
                     

                    In looking at the picture it appears to me that the quiver is open on the sides.  This would allow the crossbowman to reach back, grab a bolt on the  side and remove it from the quiver.  3Rivers used to sell a side style quiver like this.  It was basically a tube with a large section in the middle upper side cut out.  This way the archer could grab the arrow, slide it up a bit to clear the point from the bottom of the quiver, then slide it back down to extract it from the quiver.  The thought process was that if one were hunting it would involve very small, quiet movements thereby not spooking the game.  For a crossbowman it would, as pointed out, remove clutter from the belt.


                    Just my observations,
                    cog




                    --
                    Rick Johnson
                    http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                    "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
                  • Jonathas
                    I think a large part of that is the huge flap of leather over the top. I d be willing to bet this provides a consistant down pressure helping to keep all
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 18, 2014
                      I think a large part of that is the huge flap of leather over the top.  I'd be willing to bet this provides a consistant down pressure helping to keep all bolts in, yet is still loose so by grabbing the point and pushing up will allow the arrow to come up and out.

                      Jonathas


                      On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                       

                      I've seen this design often.
                      BUT
                      is it actually workable?
                      or just to be used for hunting varmants close to home?

                      Try running with that and see how many arrows fall out.

                    • JDS
                      I have not seen the (particular) picture/ quiver in questionHowever it does not take much to hold bolts or arrows down .A flap or cap of leather should work
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 18, 2014
                        I have not seen the (particular) picture/ quiver  in question
                        However it does not take much to hold bolts or arrows down .
                        A flap or cap of leather should work fine for running & motion.
                        is
                        Johann
                        An Tir
                         


                        On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                         
                         
                        I've seen this design often.
                        BUT
                        is it actually workable?
                        or just to be used for hunting varmants close to home?
                         
                        Try running with that and see how many arrows fall out.
                         
                         
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.