Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

On the subject of binding/whipping fletching

Expand Messages
  • aelric_southlake
    I have a few sets of arrows that I ve spiral wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally accepted/common term for this? Please
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
    • 0 Attachment

      I have a few sets of arrows that I've spiral wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally accepted/common term for this? Please advise).  The binding has come undone (broken, really), where the cording passes over the hard, 90 degree angle caused by the modern processing of fletching on the quill - on all sets, regardless of what kind of thread or cording I've used. If I can figure out how to load a pic of what I'm trying to explain, I will.


      I've a video of a guy doing fletch binding using feathers he's cut himself. I'm starting to think that's where my trouble lies - when you split a feather with a knife, and do minimal processing, you don't have that hard, 90 degree edge; it is curved (the radius of the quill).  But before I start investing in bulk, uncut primary and secondary feathers, I was hoping some others who've been down this road could weigh in too.


      1) Does anyone even know what I'm trying to explain? ha ha ha  I realize that's a fairly odd set of sentences in the previous paragraphs, and for that I apologize...


      2) That is: Has anyone else experienced this damage to their binding where it runs over the sharp edge of the quill?  It doesn't happen right away, and not to all of the arrows in a given set, but over much repeated use it seems to invariably occur.


      3) What kind of cordage are people using to bind their fletch? Where do you get it? Annecdotes? I have tried waxed artificial sinew. My experience is that it comes unwound eventually, and because of the wax, if you want to coat it with anything like glue, or shellac it resists. So I went to heavy duty threads, like button hole, "jeans top stitching," carpet thread, 10lb hemp cord (like heavy thread), etc. I would like to investigate silk at some point, and of course, REAL linen - but without knowing sources, weights, "kinds," I'm at a bit of a loss. Real period linen is no better than cotton or cotton/poly thread if it's the WRONG linen thread, so...  There I am.


      I have started the process of making a little tool to take off the hard edge (so's not to have to begin the aforementioned investment in feathers), to make it more of a 45 degree - but quickly came to the conclusion, "well that's stupid, there's gotta be a better way of doing this."


      Interestingly, I really noticed this when I switched from primarily using my longbow (where the arrows pass by nothing but the hardwood of the bow), to my "horsebow," which has a little patch of suede over the leather grip where the arrow passes. The binding of the fletching creates, obviously, a "ribbed" effect on the arrow - could it be just a combination of the hard angle (as a fulcrum point for the thread) and repeated friction with suede?


      I can't imagine going back to un-bound arrows, so any thoughts or advice would be GREATLY appreciated.  Looking to make a new set soon, and would like to avoid this happening again.


      Cheers,

      Aelric,

      West K.







    • richard johnson
      I just use ordinary cotton thread which I cover with clear nail polish. But I only whip the front and back of the feathers as i ve never been very good at
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        I just use ordinary cotton thread which I cover with clear nail polish.
        But I only whip the front and back of the feathers as i've never been very good at wrapping the fletching as you describe.
        Still, I never had any problems.
         
        Yes, it isn't completly<g> Period but works and passes the 20' rule.

        On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:33 PM, <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
         

        I have a few sets of arrows that I've spiral wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally accepted/common term for this? Please advise).  The binding has come undone (broken, really), where the cording passes over the hard, 90 degree angle caused by the modern processing of fletching on the quill - on all sets, regardless of what kind of thread or cording I've used. If I can figure out how to load a pic of what I'm trying to explain, I will.

        etc..... 

         










        --
        Rick Johnson
        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
      • John Chapin
        I use artificial sinew and coat the front and rear wrap with fletch tite. It seems to last pretty good. Thorin
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          I use artificial sinew and coat the front and rear wrap with fletch
          tite. It seems to last pretty good. Thorin

          On 2/13/14, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
          > I just use ordinary cotton thread which I cover with clear nail polish.
          > But I only whip the front and back of the feathers as i've never been very
          > good at wrapping the fletching as you describe.
          > Still, I never had any problems.
          >
          > Yes, it isn't completly<g> Period but works and passes the 20' rule.
          >
          > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:33 PM, <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> I have a few sets of arrows that I've spiral
          >> wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally
          >> accepted/common term for this? Please advise). The binding has come
          >> undone
          >> (broken, really), where the cording passes over the hard, 90 degree angle
          >> caused by the modern processing of fletching on the quill - on all sets,
          >> regardless of what kind of thread or cording I've used. If I can figure
          >> out
          >> how to load a pic of what I'm trying to explain, I will.
          >>
          > etc.....
          >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Rick Johnson
          > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
          > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
          > security will soon find that they have neither."
          >
        • Carolus
          Fasten a piece of 120 grit sandpaper to your bench top and lightly sand the base of the quill. It will thin the quill and make it fit the arrow better. It
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            Fasten a piece of 120 grit sandpaper to your bench top and lightly sand the base of the quill.  It will thin the quill and make it fit the arrow better.  It lowers the thread so it doesn't rub as much.
            Carolus
            On 2/13/2014 4:01 PM, John Chapin wrote:
             

            I use artificial sinew and coat the front and rear wrap with fletch
            tite. It seems to last pretty good. Thorin

            On 2/13/14, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
            > I just use ordinary cotton thread which I cover with clear nail polish.
            > But I only whip the front and back of the feathers as i've never been very
            > good at wrapping the fletching as you describe.
            > Still, I never had any problems.
            >
            > Yes, it isn't completly<g> Period but works and passes the 20' rule.
            >
            > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:33 PM, <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> I have a few sets of arrows that I've spiral
            >> wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally
            >> accepted/common term for this? Please advise). The binding has come
            >> undone
            >> (broken, really), where the cording passes over the hard, 90 degree angle
            >> caused by the modern processing of fletching on the quill - on all sets,
            >> regardless of what kind of thread or cording I've used. If I can figure
            >> out
            >> how to load a pic of what I'm trying to explain, I will.
            >>
            > etc.....
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Rick Johnson
            > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
            > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
            > security will soon find that they have neither."
            >





            This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


          • aelric_southlake
            Carolus, yes, good idea! I was thinking of putting the feathers in a fletching jig clamp (to maintain straightness), and giving them a go on my little 1 belt
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
            • 0 Attachment

              Carolus, yes, good idea!  I was thinking of putting the feathers in a fletching jig clamp (to maintain straightness), and giving them a go on my little 1" belt sander - but sanding by hand sounds MUCH wiser, lol


              Have you ever had such a problem (string breakage over high angled quill)?  What do you use to bind your fletch?


              And Thorfin, interesting to hear you get glue to stick to the waxed "sinew." I've never tried fletch tite.  I DO like the way the sinew looks as a binding. I may further experiment in that direction...


              Anyone know where to get period correct linen thread?  Whatever weight that'd be for fletch binding, that is...

            • wolfharley@verizon.net
              Look me up at Crown,I have done a few sets of period arrows. Baron Sveinn Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
              • 0 Attachment

                Look me up at Crown,I have done a few sets of period arrows.

                Baron Sveinn

                Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



                From: magnetcoil@... <magnetcoil@...>;
                To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>;
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] On the subject of binding/whipping fletching
                Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:33:51 PM

                 

                I have a few sets of arrows that I've spiral wrapped/bound/whipped/whatever-you-wanna-call-it (Is there a generally accepted/common term for this? Please advise).  The binding has come undone (broken, really), where the cording passes over the hard, 90 degree angle caused by the modern processing of fletching on the quill - on all sets, regardless of what kind of thread or cording I've used. If I can figure out how to load a pic of what I'm trying to explain, I will.


                I've a video of a guy doing fletch binding using feathers he's cut himself. I'm starting to think that's where my trouble lies - when you split a feather with a knife, and do minimal processing, you don't have that hard, 90 degree edge; it is curved (the radius of the quill).  But before I start investing in bulk, uncut primary and secondary feathers, I was hoping some others who've been down this road could weigh in too.


                1) Does anyone even know what I'm trying to explain? ha ha ha  I realize that's a fairly odd set of sentences in the previous paragraphs, and for that I apologize...


                2) That is: Has anyone else experienced this damage to their binding where it runs over the sharp edge of the quill?  It doesn't happen right away, and not to all of the arrows in a given set, but over much repeated use it seems to invariably occur.


                3) What kind of cordage are people using to bind their fletch? Where do you get it? Annecdotes? I have tried waxed artificial sinew. My experience is that it comes unwound eventually, and because of the wax, if you want to coat it with anything like glue, or shellac it resists. So I went to heavy duty threads, like button hole, "jeans top stitching," carpet thread, 10lb hemp cord (like heavy thread), etc. I would like to investigate silk at some point, and of course, REAL linen - but without knowing sources, weights, "kinds," I'm at a bit of a loss. Real period linen is no better than cotton or cotton/poly thread if it's the WRONG linen thread, so...  There I am.


                I have started the process of making a little tool to take off the hard edge (so's not to have to begin the aforementioned investment in feathers), to make it more of a 45 degree - but quickly came to the conclusion, "well that's stupid, there's gotta be a better way of doing this."


                Interestingly, I really noticed this when I switched from primarily using my longbow (where the arrows pass by nothing but the hardwood of the bow), to my "horsebow," which has a little patch of suede over the leather grip where the arrow passes. The binding of the fletching creates, obviously, a "ribbed" effect on the arrow - could it be just a combination of the hard angle (as a fulcrum point for the thread) and repeated friction with suede?


                I can't imagine going back to un-bound arrows, so any thoughts or advice would be GREATLY appreciated.  Looking to make a new set soon, and would like to avoid this happening again.


                Cheers,

                Aelric,

                West K.







              • Carolus
                I never had any problems with the one set I did this way. Of course, I was shooting from a bow with a very smooth arrow plate. I used a fine crimson silk
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 13, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  I never had any problems with the one set I did this way.  Of course, I was shooting from a bow with a very smooth arrow plate.  I used a fine crimson silk thread coated in a thin glue.
                  Carolus
                  On 2/13/2014 7:19 PM, magnetcoil@... wrote:
                   

                  Carolus, yes, good idea!  I was thinking of putting the feathers in a fletching jig clamp (to maintain straightness), and giving them a go on my little 1" belt sander - but sanding by hand sounds MUCH wiser, lol


                  Have you ever had such a problem (string breakage over high angled quill)?  What do you use to bind your fletch?


                  And Thorfin, interesting to hear you get glue to stick to the waxed "sinew." I've never tried fletch tite.  I DO like the way the sinew looks as a binding. I may further experiment in that direction...


                  Anyone know where to get period correct linen thread?  Whatever weight that'd be for fletch binding, that is...





                  This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


                • Michael
                  If you strip your feathers off the quill by hand, rather than using the machine cut commercial fletching, you get a much lower, smoother base that is naturally
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 14, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    If you strip your feathers off the quill by hand, rather than using the machine cut commercial fletching, you get a much lower, smoother base that is naturally curved and will let the thread sit a lot closer to the shaft. This helps, but from experience, I also can say don't use cotton crochet thread; it is not strong enough. A thin multi-strand linen like sold for shoemaking, or silk would probably be better. Search online for "Barbour's linen" for one good possibility. A thread that is not waxed seems to hold glue better. I've used a dot of glue on each wrap where it crosses a feather, and this at least confines the break to only some parts of the wrapping. With use, passing through the target seems more harmful to the thread than passing by the arrow shelf or strike plate does.

                    Eirik


                  • aelric_southlake
                    Yeah, having the natural curve of the quill would probably be the BEST way, and certainly closest to period. I ll see about the Barbour s Linen. Sveinn, if I
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 14, 2014
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Yeah, having the natural curve of the quill would probably be the BEST way, and certainly closest to period.  I'll see about the Barbour's Linen.


                      Sveinn, if I can make it to Crown, I'll certainly enjoy a Q&A session, 


                      Thank you all,


                      Aelric

                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.