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PVC bows

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  • John Edgerton
    PVC bows? I would like to learn what experience archers using PVC bows for target shooting are having with them.  Have they been breaking or folding?  Do
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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      PVC bows? I would like to learn what experience archers using PVC bows for target shooting are having with them. 
      Have they been breaking or folding? 
      Do they seem to shoot consistently or do they lose cast and fps over a days shooting? Etc?

      Jon
    • David Edwards
      In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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      In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.

       

      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Edgerton
      Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 12:35 PM
      To: sca-archery
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows

       

       

      PVC bows? I would like to learn what experience archers using PVC bows for target shooting are having with them. 

      Have they been breaking or folding? 

      Do they seem to shoot consistently or do they lose cast and fps over a days shooting? Etc?

       

      Jon

    • John Edgerton
      Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other
      Message 3 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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        Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other three had major variations in draw weight though out the day. I wonder what the problem was with those bows that their results were so different. The GWW bows seem to be an exception to the norm. 

        Jon


        From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 1:34 PM
        Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows [1 Attachment]

         
        In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.
          
      • richard johnson
        Not being an expert, but a few weeks on youtube watching people MAKE PVC-bows shows that there are a number of methods, some better than others. Backyard Bower
        Message 4 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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          Not being an expert, but a few weeks on youtube watching people MAKE PVC-bows shows that there are a number of methods, some better than others.
          Backyard Bower seems to be the best of the lot, showing WHY he does certain things that others do not.
          I wonder if there is a differnce in manudacturing proceedure as basically, PVC is PVC.. unless you leave it in the sun for a week or more.  PVC has no UV protection and degrades if left in the sun.
          Or the taper of the limbs could be a factor.
           
          I suppose tha tthe only way to know is to take the two sets of bows and compare them side-by-side.


          On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 4:25 PM, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
           

          Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other three had major variations in draw weight though out the day. I wonder what the problem was with those bows that their results were so different. The GWW bows seem to be an exception to the norm. 

          Jon


          From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 1:34 PM
          Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows [1 Attachment]

           
          In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.
            




          --
          Rick Johnson
          http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
        • David Edwards
          I have heard the same story, first hand from Their Graces, Duke Edward and Duchess Mora, who witnessed it, so I have no doubt it is true. I think the success
          Message 5 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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            I have heard the same story, first hand from Their Graces, Duke Edward and Duchess Mora, who witnessed it, so I have no doubt it is true. I think the success of the bow lies somewhat in the maker and the care that was taken in the construction of the bow. The ones I’ve made are modeled after the Backyard Bowyer’s. I created a jig that I press mine in so that the limbs are straight and I get a relatively consistent shape each time. That said, I have made 4 bows in this jig, following the same procedure for each, and each one performs slightly differently. It is quite likely that there would be a great deal of variation in results depending on the care and skill of the craftsman. I think this is the greatest obstacle to their widespread acceptance, particularly on the battlefield.

             

            I would also note that there are beautiful examples on the web of finely crafted horse bows made with PVC limbs and wood scias that I would place in a completely different league from the sort of utility bows I am discussing. I have not built or handled one of these so I cannot speak to their performance. I think they are more the exception than the rule in the word of homemade PVC bows.

             

            From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Edgerton
            Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:25 PM
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows

             

             

            Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other three had major variations in draw weight though out the day. I wonder what the problem was with those bows that their results were so different. The GWW bows seem to be an exception to the norm. 

             

            Jon

             


            From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 1:34 PM
            Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows [1 Attachment]

             

             

            In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.

              

          • John Edgerton
            Have any of your bows broken in use? An other factor that should be considered in PVC bow breakage is if the pipe had a long exposure to direct sunlight, which
            Message 6 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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              Have any of your bows broken in use?

              An other factor that should be considered in PVC bow breakage is if the pipe had a long exposure to direct sunlight, which would make it brittle.  

              Jon


              From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 5:25 PM
              Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows

               
              I have heard the same story, first hand from Their Graces, Duke Edward and Duchess Mora, who witnessed it, so I have no doubt it is true. I think the success of the bow lies somewhat in the maker and the care that was taken in the construction of the bow. The ones I’ve made are modeled after the Backyard Bowyer’s. I created a jig that I press mine in so that the limbs are straight and I get a relatively consistent shape each time. That said, I have made 4 bows in this jig, following the same procedure for each, and each one performs slightly differently. It is quite likely that there would be a great deal of variation in results depending on the care and skill of the craftsman. I think this is the greatest obstacle to their widespread acceptance, particularly on the battlefield.
               
              I would also note that there are beautiful examples on the web of finely crafted horse bows made with PVC limbs and wood scias that I would place in a completely different league from the sort of utility bows I am discussing. I have not built or handled one of these so I cannot speak to their performance. I think they are more the exception than the rule in the word of homemade PVC bows.
               
              From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Edgerton
              Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:25 PM
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows
               
               
              Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other three had major variations in draw weight though out the day. I wonder what the problem was with those bows that their results were so different. The GWW bows seem to be an exception to the norm. 
               
              Jon
               

              From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 1:34 PM
              Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows [1 Attachment]
               
               
              In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.
                


            • David Edwards
              I have not experienced any of mine breaking in use. Sent from my iPad ... I have not experienced any of mine breaking in use. Sent from my iPad On Nov 25,
              Message 7 of 13 , Nov 25, 2013
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                I have not experienced any of mine breaking in use.

                Sent from my iPad

                On Nov 25, 2013, at 5:51 PM, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:

                 

                Have any of your bows broken in use?

                An other factor that should be considered in PVC bow breakage is if the pipe had a long exposure to direct sunlight, which would make it brittle.  

                Jon


                From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 5:25 PM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows

                 
                I have heard the same story, first hand from Their Graces, Duke Edward and Duchess Mora, who witnessed it, so I have no doubt it is true. I think the success of the bow lies somewhat in the maker and the care that was taken in the construction of the bow. The ones I’ve made are modeled after the Backyard Bowyer’s. I created a jig that I press mine in so that the limbs are straight and I get a relatively consistent shape each time. That said, I have made 4 bows in this jig, following the same procedure for each, and each one performs slightly differently. It is quite likely that there would be a great deal of variation in results depending on the care and skill of the craftsman. I think this is the greatest obstacle to their widespread acceptance, particularly on the battlefield.
                 
                I would also note that there are beautiful examples on the web of finely crafted horse bows made with PVC limbs and wood scias that I would place in a completely different league from the sort of utility bows I am discussing. I have not built or handled one of these so I cannot speak to their performance. I think they are more the exception than the rule in the word of homemade PVC bows.
                 
                From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Edgerton
                Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:25 PM
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows
                 
                 
                Interesting.  I have just read in another group of a case in Caid, GWW, that two PVC bows broke before they even got to the battle field and that the other three had major variations in draw weight though out the day. I wonder what the problem was with those bows that their results were so different. The GWW bows seem to be an exception to the norm. 
                 
                Jon
                 

                From: David Edwards <davidedw@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 1:34 PM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows [1 Attachment]
                 
                 
                In Gyldenholt Barony, Caid, we have been making and using pvc bows as loaner bows for our target archery practice for about six months. We have about 5 of them that have been used pretty extensively for practice during that time. To date we have had no issues with breaking, folding or any other type of failure with any of them. The bows I have made used ¾” schedule 40 pvc plumbing pipe. They are 56” long and have about 6” of recurve. They are strung with 14 strand B55 Flemish twist bowstings that I made. The attached picture is of  the first one I made, which is slightly smaller and has a premade bowstring. Draw weight is around 30 lbs. I have not done any type of calibrated study of draw weight or power loss, but I can say from observation that take a bit of cast and loose some draw weight during the first use then seem to stabilize. The draw weight to power ration is fairly low compared to laminated fiberglass or wood, and they are definitely not as accurate. In my opinion  they are adequate as loaner bows for beginning archers who can learn the basics then be encouraged to move on and get their own bow. They are an inexpensive way to outfit a group with loaner bows for beginners, but I would not recommend their use in competition simply because they would not be competitive.
                  


              • John Edgerton
                I found this write up on the World Archery site. It seems that are using PVC bows to encourage archery in countries where bows are hard to find or too
                Message 8 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                  I found this write up on the "World Archery" site. It seems that are using PVC bows to encourage archery in countries where bows are hard to find or too expensive. They feel that they make a good starter bow to introduce people to archery. I feel that well made and attractive PVC bows have a place in SCA archery to help introduce new people to archery as starter and loaner bows.
                  If you search for PVC on their site, they have other articles on it as well.


                • Robert Sandusky
                  At the moment PVC bows are illegal for East Kingdom competition (and I imagine official practices) due to a catastrophic failure that the Archery Captain
                  Message 9 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                    At the moment PVC bows are illegal for East Kingdom competition (and I imagine official practices) due to a "catastrophic failure" that the Archery Captain General was made aware of.

                    I'm not privy to the details but the announcement went out just before Pensic.

                    Robert the Tall

                    Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

                    From:"John Edgerton sirjon1@... [SCA-Archery]" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date:Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:55 PM
                    Subject:[SCA-Archery] PVC bows

                     

                    I found this write up on the "World Archery" site. It seems that are using PVC bows to encourage archery in countries where bows are hard to find or too expensive. They feel that they make a good starter bow to introduce people to archery. I feel that well made and attractive PVC bows have a place in SCA archery to help introduce new people to archery as starter and loaner bows.
                    If you search for PVC on their site, they have other articles on it as well.


                  • Jonathas
                    Same with Atlantia, PVC bows illegal here too. Jonthas On Oct 29, 2014 4:44 PM, Robert Sandusky rdsandusky@yahoo.com
                    Message 10 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                      Same with Atlantia, PVC bows illegal here too.

                      Jonthas

                      On Oct 29, 2014 4:44 PM, "Robert Sandusky rdsandusky@... [SCA-Archery]" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      At the moment PVC bows are illegal for East Kingdom competition (and I imagine official practices) due to a "catastrophic failure" that the Archery Captain General was made aware of.

                      I'm not privy to the details but the announcement went out just before Pensic.

                      Robert the Tall

                      Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

                      From:"John Edgerton sirjon1@... [SCA-Archery]" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date:Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:55 PM
                      Subject:[SCA-Archery] PVC bows

                       

                      I found this write up on the "World Archery" site. It seems that are using PVC bows to encourage archery in countries where bows are hard to find or too expensive. They feel that they make a good starter bow to introduce people to archery. I feel that well made and attractive PVC bows have a place in SCA archery to help introduce new people to archery as starter and loaner bows.
                      If you search for PVC on their site, they have other articles on it as well.


                    • richard johnson
                      I have a scar over my right eye from a catastrophic failure of my wood recurve. Of course, I didn t call it that when it happened, I think I used about
                      Message 11 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                        I have a scar over my right eye from a 'catastrophic failure" of my wood recurve.  Of course, I didn't call it that when it happened, I think I used about three lines of profanity!
                         
                        I'd like to know what happened though I suspect that the PVC suffered UV-degradation and shattered under stress.
                         
                        Although I've never made a PVC bow, I HAVE made other things from PVC and find that they shatter into pieces when they degrade over the years and suffer any stress.
                         

                         
                        On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Robert Sandusky rdsandusky@... [SCA-Archery] <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        At the moment PVC bows are illegal for East Kingdom competition (and I imagine official practices) due to a "catastrophic failure" that the Archery Captain General was made aware of.

                        I'm not privy to the details but the announcement went out just before Pensic.

                        Robert the Tall

                        Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

                        From:"John Edgerton sirjon1@... [SCA-Archery]" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date:Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:55 PM
                        Subject:[SCA-Archery] PVC bows

                         

                        I found this write up on the "World Archery" site. It seems that are using PVC bows to encourage archery in countries where bows are hard to find or too expensive. They feel that they make a good starter bow to introduce people to archery. I feel that well made and attractive PVC bows have a place in SCA archery to help introduce new people to archery as starter and loaner bows.
                        If you search for PVC on their site, they have other articles on it as well.





                        --
                        Rick Johnson
                        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
                      • randal_of_camusfearna
                        Interesting! I knew PVC bows were not allowed for combat archery, but this is the first I ve heard that they were banned for target archery as well. I too
                        Message 12 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                          Interesting!  I knew PVC bows were not allowed for combat archery, but this is the first I've heard that they were banned for target archery as well.  I too would be interested in details regarding the failures.


                          Randal

                        • Arion the Wanderer
                          My limited experience with some PVC bows made in An Tir is that if you scale one and do it several times more, the draw weight drops each time. Arion the
                          Message 13 of 13 , Oct 29, 2014
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                            My limited experience with some PVC bows made in An Tir is that if you scale one and do it several times more, the draw weight drops each time.

                            Arion the Wanderer


                            From: "randal_of_camusfearna@... [SCA-Archery]" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 7:00:29 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] PVC bows

                             

                            Interesting!  I knew PVC bows were not allowed for combat archery, but this is the first I've heard that they were banned for target archery as well.  I too would be interested in details regarding the failures.


                            Randal

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