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RE: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

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  • Holly Decker
    Just picked mine up. Can t wait to crack it open. Thanks for the recommendation! ... Just picked mine up.á Can t wait to crack it open. Thanks for the
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 24, 2013
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      Just picked mine up.  Can't wait to crack it open. Thanks for the recommendation!

      On Sep 24, 2013 11:41 AM, "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <ggg9y@...> wrote:
       

      Noble Friends of the Bow,

      This issue of PRIMITIVE ARCHER also includes a feature on Hector Cole, and shows step-by-step close-ups of him forging arrowheads. This was the first issue of PA I've bought, but I am going to look closely at future issues at my local B&N.

      Yours Aye,

      Lord Mungo Napier, The Archer of Mallard Lodge
      Read “The Tale of Mungo Napier”:
      http://people.virginia.edu/~ggg9y/napier1.html



      -----Original Message-----
      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John R. Edgerton
      Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 12:27 PM
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups com; SCA-West-Archery@yahoogroups com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

      The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

      Jon

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    • JOHN C SHEPHERD
      The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding. This is very similar to a
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
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        The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding.  This is very similar to a bow my father build in the early 1930's which I still have and have actually launched arrows from.  Such an arrow rest would probably not survived the test of time for very old bows.  My fathers bow arrow rest appears to made from some sort of horn which has been carved into an "L".

        Baron John Garr
         
         
        On 09/24/13, John R. Edgerton wrote:
         
         

        The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

        Jon

      • houseofgrey
        Here are a few thoughts to cross-pollinate the discussion about arrow rests on bows. I subscribe to the idea that it is unlikely bows had cut out arrow shelves
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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          Here are a few thoughts to cross-pollinate the discussion about arrow rests on bows. 


          I subscribe to the idea that it is unlikely bows had cut out arrow shelves as modern traditional bows do.  However, having an arrow rest does increase the consistency of the shot as discussed here.  Therefore it is not unlikely that archers in Medieval times knew this and took advantage of this.  However, as their bows did not have cut out arrow shelves they could easily have wrapped something under the hand grip to serve in this manner.  It could have been a piece of antler or bone or a stack of leather.  I have used all of these on some of my bows and they work just fine.  However, all of these items do not survive the ages very well as they are tasty to critters and tend to dissolve faster in (sea) water than wood or metal.


          Now IF, big if, they used a glue it is totally reasonable to assume they used a glue similar to the glues used to create musical instruments of the era.  Having studied this are a bit I discovered that many of the musical instruments of this era have had to be repaired with modern glues.  It seems the hide glue used, best glue of the time, is also quite tasty to small critters including bacteria.  Thus the instruments fall apart as the glue gets eaten.  Would it not be reasonable to assume the same happened with arrow rests added to bows if done with glue?


          Just asking,

          cog



          ---In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding.  This is very similar to a bow my father build in the early 1930's which I still have and have actually launched arrows from.  Such an arrow rest would probably not survived the test of time for very old bows.  My fathers bow arrow rest appears to made from some sort of horn which has been carved into an "L".

          Baron John Garr
           
           
          On 09/24/13, John R. Edgerton wrote:
           
           

          The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

          Jon

        • Groff, Garth (ggg9y)
          COG, It has been suggested in various books and articles that arrows were fletched with fish scale glue. I don’t know if fish glue was as strong as glue made
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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            COG,

             

            It has been suggested in various books and articles that arrows were fletched with fish scale glue. I don’t know if fish glue was as strong as glue made from hides or hoofs and could have been used for an arrow rest, but it is one more thing to consider. It was probably made in a very similar way to hide glues – lots of stinky boiling stuff, and probably applied hot. (Yecch!).

             

            Yours Aye,

             

            Lord Mungo Napier, The Archer of Mallard Lodge

            Read “The Tale of Mungo Napier”:

            http://people.virginia.edu/~ggg9y/napier1.html

             

             

             

             

            From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cogworks@...
            Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:24 AM
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

             




            Here are a few thoughts to cross-pollinate the discussion about arrow rests on bows. 

             

            I subscribe to the idea that it is unlikely bows had cut out arrow shelves as modern traditional bows do.  However, having an arrow rest does increase the consistency of the shot as discussed here.  Therefore it is not unlikely that archers in Medieval times knew this and took advantage of this.  However, as their bows did not have cut out arrow shelves they could easily have wrapped something under the hand grip to serve in this manner.  It could have been a piece of antler or bone or a stack of leather.  I have used all of these on some of my bows and they work just fine.  However, all of these items do not survive the ages very well as they are tasty to critters and tend to dissolve faster in (sea) water than wood or metal.

             

            Now IF, big if, they used a glue it is totally reasonable to assume they used a glue similar to the glues used to create musical instruments of the era.  Having studied this are a bit I discovered that many of the musical instruments of this era have had to be repaired with modern glues.  It seems the hide glue used, best glue of the time, is also quite tasty to small critters including bacteria.  Thus the instruments fall apart as the glue gets eaten.  Would it not be reasonable to assume the same happened with arrow rests added to bows if done with glue?

             

            Just asking,

            cog



            ---In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding.  This is very similar to a bow my father build in the early 1930's which I still have and have actually launched arrows from.  Such an arrow rest would pr obably not survived the test of time for very old bows.  My fathers bow arrow rest appears to made from some sort of horn which has been carved into an "L".

            Baron John Garr

             

             

            On 09/24/13, John R. Edgerton wrote:

             

             

            The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

            Jon




          • John R. Edgerton
            I think that is possible that rests might sometimes have used. However, I do not believe that there has been any actual evidence presented to prove this
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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              I think that is possible that rests might sometimes have used. However, I do not believe that there has been any actual evidence presented to prove this theory.

              Jon

              cogworks@... wrote:

               

              Here are a few thoughts to cross-pollinate the discussion about arrow rests on bows. 


              I subscribe to the idea that it is unlikely bows had cut out arrow shelves as modern traditional bows do.  However, having an arrow rest does increase the consistency of the shot as discussed here.  Therefore it is not unlikely that archers in Medieval times knew this and took advantage of this.  However, as their bows did not have cut out arrow shelves they could easily have wrapped something under the hand grip to serve in this manner.  It could have been a piece of antler or bone or a stack of leather.  I have used all of these on some of my bows and they work just fine.  However, all of these items do not survive the ages very well as they are tasty to critters and tend to dissolve faster in (sea) water than wood or metal.


              Now IF, big if, they used a glue it is totally reasonable to assume they used a glue similar to the glues used to create musical instruments of the era.  Having studied this are a bit I discovered that many of the musical instruments of this era have had to be repaired with modern glues.  It seems the hide glue used, best glue of the time, is also quite tasty to small critters including bacteria.  Thus the instruments fall apart as the glue gets eaten.  Would it not be reasonable to assume the same happened with arrow rests added to bows if done with glue?


              Just asking,

              cog



              ---In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding.  This is very similar to a bow my father build in the early 1930's which I still have and have actually launched arrows from.  Such an arrow rest would probably not survived the test of time for very old bows.  My fathers bow arrow rest appears to made from some sort of horn which has been carved into an "L".

              Baron John Garr
               
               
              On 09/24/13, John R. Edgerton wrote:
               
               

              The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

              Jon

            • John Edgerton
              The fact that something could have happened, does not necessarily mean that it did.  The fact that there is no proof of something happening, does not
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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                The fact that something could have happened, does not necessarily mean that it did. 
                The fact that there is no proof of something happening, does not necessarily mean that it did not 

                Jon  ;-)


                From: John R. Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                To:
                Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:44 AM
                Subject: RE: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

                 
                I think that is possible that rests might sometimes have used. However, I do not believe that there has been any actual evidence presented to prove this theory.

                Jon
              • Karl W. Evoy
                All these statements are true; however, without proof that an item was in use by the persona you are depicting and the time and place you are depicting (this
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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                  All these statements are true; however, without proof that an item was in use by the persona you are depicting and the time and place you are depicting (this can include a range of times and places, for the more "general" depictions), then you can not use it and still say you are recreating or re-enacting, history.
                  So logic games are pointless.
                  Ancel
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:58 PM
                  Subject: Re: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

                   

                  The fact that something could have happened, does not necessarily mean that it did. 
                  The fact that there is no proof of something happening, does not necessarily mean that it did not 

                  Jon  ;-)


                  From: John R. Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                  To:
                  Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:44 AM
                  Subject: RE: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article

                   
                  I think that is possible that rests might sometimes have used. However, I do not believe that there has been any actual evidence presented to prove this theory.

                  Jon

                • Jim Pickette
                  I suggest we encourage Periodicity. None of our attempts at being better than we are, are either games or pointless. James of Odo, Fidelibus Lonely Tower in
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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                    I suggest we encourage Periodicity. None of our attempts at being better than we are, are either games or pointless.

                    James of Odo, Fidelibus
                    Lonely Tower in Calontir




                    ---- "Karl W. Evoy" <kweancel@...> wrote:
                    > All these statements are true; however, without proof that an item was in use by the persona you are depicting and the time and place you are depicting (this can include a range of times and places, for the more "general" depictions), then you can not use it and still say you are recreating or re-enacting, history.
                    > So logic games are pointless.
                    > Ancel
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: John Edgerton
                    > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:58 PM
                    > Subject: Re: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The fact that something could have happened, does not necessarily mean that it did.
                    > The fact that there is no proof of something happening, does not necessarily mean that it did not
                    >
                    >
                    > Jon ;-)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > From: John R. Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                    > To:
                    > Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:44 AM
                    > Subject: RE: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I think that is possible that rests might sometimes have used. However, I do not believe that there has been any actual evidence presented to prove this theory.
                    >
                    > Jon
                    >
                    >
                  • J. Hughes
                    Cog,   The use of glues was an essential part of making composite bows and crossbows with composite prods. The exact recipe for the glues differed from one
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013
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                      Cog,
                       
                      The use of glues was an essential part of making composite bows and crossbows with composite prods. The exact recipe for the glues differed from one region to another. They did not use the same glues in the Holy Land as they did on the Prussian frontier. They did not use the same glue for crossbows intended for use on ships as those that were expected only to see use on land. I have run across references to both hide and fish glues. But I have run into references from both Italy and Germany that the recipe for the glue was a guild trade secret. Mistress Tux has gone much further in her study of glues than I have.
                       
                      Charles O'Connor

                      From: "cogworks@..." <cogworks@...>
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 8:24 AM
                      Subject: RE: Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching article
                       
                      Here are a few thoughts to cross-pollinate the discussion about arrow rests on bows. 

                      I subscribe to the idea that it is unlikely bows had cut out arrow shelves as modern traditional bows do.  However, having an arrow rest does increase the consistency of the shot as discussed here.  Therefore it is not unlikely that archers in Medieval times knew this and took advantage of this.  However, as their bows did not have cut out arrow shelves they could easily have wrapped something under the hand grip to serve in this manner.  It could have been a piece of antler or bone or a stack of leather.  I have used all of these on some of my bows and they work just fine.  However, all of these items do not survive the ages very well as they are tasty to critters and tend to dissolve faster in (sea) water than wood or metal.

                      Now IF, big if, they used a glue it is totally reasonable to assume they used a glue similar to the glues used to create musical instruments of the era.  Having studied this are a bit I discovered that many of the musical instruments of this era have had to be repaired with modern glues.  It seems the hide glue used, best glue of the time, is also quite tasty to small critters including bacteria.  Thus the instruments fall apart as the glue gets eaten.  Would it not be reasonable to assume the same happened with arrow rests added to bows if done with glue?

                      Just asking,
                      cog
                      ---In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      The issue also has some very interesting pictures of bows with arrow rests that are attached to the bow with the hand grip binding.  This is very similar to a bow my father build in the early 1930's which I still have and have actually launched arrows from.  Such an arrow rest would probably not survived the test of time for very old bows.  My fathers bow arrow rest appears to made from some sort of horn which has been carved into an "L". Baron John Garr
                       
                       
                      On 09/24/13, John R. Edgerton wrote:
                       
                       
                      The current issue of "Primitive Archer" has a good article on fletching. It includes stripping the feathers and attaching and trimming them by hand without a fletching jig.

                      Jon
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