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  • russ register
    Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting. They are not the same. I see several people get so upset just for asking. But its true
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 17, 2013
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      Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
      They are not the same.
      I see several people get so upset just for asking.
      But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills
       
    • Caley
      ... Some groups do, some don t. Caley
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 18, 2013
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        > Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
        > They are not the same.
        > I see several people get so upset just for asking.
        > But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills


        Some groups do, some don't.

        Caley
      • jameswolfden
        I would say it is because we are a medieval group first and archery group second. Our goal is to recreate a medieval period where crossbows and hand bows were
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 18, 2013
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          I would say it is because we are a medieval group first and archery group second. Our goal is to recreate a medieval period where crossbows and hand bows were used at the same time whether it be in war or hunting.


          Competitions are fun but if your goal in the SCA is to shoot the highest Royal Round or win the most competitions, you are really missing most of the fun. 


          Of course, you can always set up a competition that requires different divisions. Most Royal Rounds and the IKAC already do that.


          However, look at the rest of the Society. Is the fighter who fights Florentine not allowed to fight against a sword and heater fighter? If you really want to see an Apples and Oranges situation, volunteer to judge an Arts and Science competition where you could be judging an Iron Helm against a 14th Century Cotehardie. 


          Have fun. Shoot against yourself first and foremost. Don't worry too much about the other archers on the line and what they are shooting. Cheer or jeer (in a friendly manner) as you see fit. After the range closes, quaff a few with your fellow archers. 


          Cheers, James



          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
          They are not the same.
          I see several people get so upset just for asking.
          But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills
           
        • russ register
          thanks for the great answer lord James Wolfden To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com From: jameswolfden@yahoo.ca Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:26:43 -0700 Subject:
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 18, 2013
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            thanks for the great answer lord James Wolfden

             

            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            From: jameswolfden@...
            Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:26:43 -0700
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] RE: ???

             

            I would say it is because we are a medieval group first and archery group second. Our goal is to recreate a medieval period where crossbows and hand bows were used at the same time whether it be in war or hunting.


            Competitions are fun but if your goal in the SCA is to shoot the highest Royal Round or win the most competitions, you are really missing most of the fun. 


            Of course, you can always set up a competition that requires different divisions. Most Royal Rounds and the IKAC already do that.


            However, look at the rest of the Society. Is the fighter who fights Florentine not allowed to fight against a sword and heater fighter? If you really want to see an Apples and Oranges situation, volunteer to judge an Arts and Science competition where you could be judging an Iron Helm against a 14th Century Cotehardie. 


            Have fun. Shoot against yourself first and foremost. Don't worry too much about the other archers on the line and what they are shooting. Cheer or jeer (in a friendly manner) as you see fit. After the range closes, quaff a few with your fellow archers. 


            Cheers, James



            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
            They are not the same.
            I see several people get so upset just for asking.
            But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills
             

          • talonoak
            IMHO, there is not a lot of difference between them. You still have to be able to aim (instinctive shooting is still aiming, you ve just done it for so long
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 18, 2013
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              IMHO, there is not a lot of difference between them. You still have to be able to aim (instinctive shooting is still aiming, you've just done it for so long that you don't realize you are still aiming), and release the arrow/bolt at the target. Granted there are some archers who shoot so well with a crossbow and have done it for so long, that if they tried to shoot a recurve or a longbow, they wouldn't know what to do ;), but there are some of us who like to shoot so much that they have to switch from a bow to a crossbow for health reasons. And, as has been said before, you are actually shooting against yourself, not against others. When tournaments are set up, they are usually set up to make it challenging for both types of archers and make it fun for both.
              Also, in some areas, there aren't enough crossbowmen to make it worthwhile to set up different tournaments. After all, if you went that route you would need to set up one tournament for a crossbowman, one for a long bow user, one for a recurve user and even one for a horse bow user. Just think of how much work you would have to go into to get even one tournament going if you did that.

              Eoin Dubh
              Company Captain of Archers
              Iron Bog


              From: "russ register" <russellregister@...>
              To: "SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com" <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 11:04:36 PM
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] ???

               


              Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
              They are not the same.
              I see several people get so upset just for asking.
              But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills
               



            • Janyn Fletcher
              Caley, the SCA makes very few rules that govern things like this. For safety issues there are a set of SCA rules that all of the Kingdoms use as a basis for
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 18, 2013
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                Caley, the SCA makes very few rules that govern things like this. For safety issues there are a set of SCA rules that all of the Kingdoms use as a basis for their sets of rules. It is then up to each Kingdom to modify the rules as they see fit for safety and other issues. In Atlantia we do not separate Crossbows from Hand Bows in the Royal Rounds rankings. Most of our shoots do have separate classes for handbows and crossbows for awards but both compete against each other. I am not someone who favors exclusion in any form so the key we preach in our Kingdom is for shoot designers to try to level the playing field so a shoot is not just an accuracy shoot that a crossbow would be better at, and introduce movement, timed stations, etc that would make the shoot the same difficulty for both handbows and crossbows. The St. Sebastian's shoot I run at Pennsic each year is designed with this in mind so there is no real advantage for either group.
                 
                In Service,
                 
                Janyn
                 

                From: Caley <caoillainn1@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:01 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] ???
                 
                > Why do SCA no make Bows and Crossbows Different groups in shooting.
                > They are not the same.
                > I see several people get so upset just for asking.
                > But its true Appels and oranges and not same skills

                Some groups do, some don't.

                Caley
              • Michael Scherrer
                Calontir Archery events are set up for three disciplines, recurve, long bow and cross bow. The disciplines compete against like weapons, recurve against
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 19, 2013
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                  Calontir Archery events are set up for three disciplines, recurve, long bow and cross bow.
                  The disciplines compete against like weapons, recurve against recurve, long bow against long bow.
                  Shooter know who their completion is and how will they will need to shoot to be on top.
                  Most of our archers will switch weapons form one event to an other to be competent in several
                  weapon forms.
                   Larger Archery events may have over 100 Archers taking the line.   Recurve use here has declined
                  as Archers have moved to long bows as bow of chose.
                   
                  Thomas of Cologne
                  Calontir Archer
                   

                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  From: stalek@...
                  Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:50:34 +0000
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] ???

                   
                  IMHO, there is not a lot of difference between them. You still have to be able to aim (instinctive shooting is still aiming, you've just done it for so long that you don't realize you are still aiming), and release the arrow/bolt at the target. Granted there are some archers who shoot so well with a crossbow and have done it for so long, that if they tried to shoot a recurve or a longbow, they wouldn't know what to do ;), but there are some of us who like to shoot so much that they have to switch from a bow to a crossbow for health reasons. And, as has been said before, you are actually shooting against yourself, not against others. When tournaments are set up, they are usually set up to make it challenging for both types of archers and make it fun for both.
                  Also, in some areas, there aren't enough crossbowmen to make it worthwhile to set up different tournaments. After all, if you went that route you would need to set up one tournament for a crossbowman, one for a long bow user, one for a recurve user and even one for a horse bow user. Just think of how much work you would have to go into to get even one tournament going if you did that.

                  Eoin Dubh
                  Company Captain of Archers
                  Iron Bog


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