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Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question

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  • Ronald Klick
    Exactly the practice as I ve always known it. And as a marshal, if it is THAT close, just give them the one point. Osmond East ________________________________
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2013
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      Exactly the practice as I've always known it. And as a marshal, if it is THAT close, just give them the one point.

      Osmond
      East


      From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 1:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question

       
      For myself and for archers that I teach, I tell them to only pull the arrows that there is no question on, if there is any question, leave it and have the marshal in charge or another marshal score it.

      Vincenti
      Ansteorra 


      On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Groff, Garth (ggg9y) <ggg9y@...> wrote:
       
      M’Lord Arpad,
       
      We have no such rule here in Atlantia. We are an honorable society, and (until proven otherwise, which I hope never happens) assume that all archers are likewise honest and honorable. In addition, when there is any question, a scoring decision is always in favor of the archer.
       
      Yours Aye,
       
      Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir (Atlantia) TA Marshal
      Read “The Tale of Mungo Napier”:
       
       
       
      From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bernhard Rohrer
      Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 9:44 AM
      To: SCA-Archery yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question
       


      Greetings good gentles

      I have just come back to SCA Archery after 10 year's abstention and have reread all rules to refamiliarise myself. I have noticed with interest that no rulset mentions a rule that all mundane archers have in flesh and blood - an arrow that got touched before it got scored does not count, as a touch can induce a line break. Is this an intentional ommission? If so, I would be interested in the intent behind it.

      YIS

      Arpad








    • Dierk zem Grauen Wolf
      To me, this entire discussion is really pretty petty. It s a game. Does it really matter what you score? If something as nitpicky as touching an arrow causing
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 1, 2013
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        To me, this entire discussion is really pretty petty. It's a game. Does it really matter what you score? If something as nitpicky as touching an arrow causing a line to break really cause you any concern at all, you're in the wrong society. So what if your score goes up a point or two? Does it really matter??? Go out and shoot, enjoy the comraderie, laugh, b.s. with your fellow archers, and don't worry about what you score. I go out to have fun. I couldn't care less whether I win, lose, or do better than other archers. In the end, if I had fun, that is all that matters.

        Sincerely,
        Dierk zem grauen wolf
        Great household of the dark horde

        On Jul 1, 2013 2:45 PM, "Bernhard Rohrer" <graylion@...> wrote:
        >
        >  
        >
        > As I said - my point is not about active cheating but about inadvertent falsification of results. Let me put it this way: I don't want to be scored higher on a miss, just because somebody touched my arrow and broke the line. I want to earn my points. And this does concern my honour.
        >
        > Am I making sense?
        >
        > /Arpad
        >
        >
        > On 01/07/13 18:30, Suzanne Lacey wrote:
        >>
        >>  
        >>
        >> I've seen some excited discussion of where exactly a line might be (I now use Sharpies to make novelty target lines very clear), but I've never seen any deliberate cheating in an SCA shoot. I agree that the loss of honor would be significant in our Society and never worth a point even if no one but the cheater knew. So, yes, most likely a deliberate omission.
        >>
        >> Suzanne
        >>
        >> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:32 AM, <drosen105@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>  
        >>>
        >>> I believe it's a deliberate omission since the SCA is based on honor and chivalry
        >>> Rupert.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Dave Rosen
        >>> drosen105@...
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> -----Original Message-----
        >>> From: Bernhard Rohrer <graylion@...>
        >>> To: SCA-Archery yahoogroups.com <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        >>> Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 11:38 am
        >>> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question
        >>>
        >>>  
        >>> Greetings good gentles
        >>>
        >>> I have just come back to SCA Archery after 10 year's abstention and have reread all rules to refamiliarise myself. I have noticed with interest that no rulset mentions a rule that all mundane archers have in flesh and blood - an arrow that got touched before it got scored does not count, as a touch can induce a line break. Is this an intentional ommission? If so, I would be interested in the intent behind it.
        >>>
        >>> YIS
        >>>
        >>> Arpad
        >>> ________________________________
        >>>
        >>
        >
        >

      • Jim Pickette
        It seems that in all of these mentioned cases Honour was well served. We do not need to inspect or re-inspect a target, but in the most severe conditions. JoO
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 1, 2013
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          It seems that in all of these mentioned cases Honour was well served. We do not need to inspect or re-inspect a target, but in the most severe conditions.

          JoO

          ---- Chris Ivins <yuriilev@...> wrote:
          > Because I am disabled, I usually end up with someone retrieving arrows for me, but I always tell the retriever and marshals that if there is the slightest doubt, default it to the lower score/outer ring, that way there is no controversy about whether it 'cut' the line or not.
          >
          > - Iurii
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: Bernhard Rohrer <graylion@...>
          > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          > >Cc: Suzanne Lacey <goldenhind05@...>
          > >Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:44 AM
          > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >As I said - my point is not about active cheating but about inadvertent falsification of results. Let me put it this way: I don't want to be scored higher on a miss, just because somebody touched my arrow and broke the line. I want to earn my points. And this does concern my honour.
          > >
          > >Am I making sense?
          > >
          > >/Arpad
          > >
          > >On 01/07/13 18:30, Suzanne Lacey wrote:
          > >
          > > 
          > >>I've seen some excited discussion of where exactly a line might be (I now use Sharpies to make novelty target lines very clear), but I've never seen any deliberate cheating in an SCA shoot. I agree that the loss of honor would be significant in our Society and never worth a point even if no one but the cheater knew. So, yes, most likely a deliberate omission.
          > >>
          > >>Suzanne
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:32 AM, <drosen105@...> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> 
          > >>>I believe it's a deliberate omission since the SCA is based on honor and chivalry
          > >>>Rupert.
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>Dave Rosen
          > >>>drosen105@...
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>-----Original Message-----
          > >>>From: Bernhard Rohrer <graylion@...>
          > >>>To: SCA-Archery yahoogroups.com <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 11:38 am
          > >>>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules
          > question
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> 
          > >>>Greetings good gentles
          > >>>
          > >>>I have just come back to SCA
          > Archery after 10 year's
          > abstention and have reread
          > all rules to refamiliarise
          > myself. I have noticed with
          > interest that no rulset
          > mentions a rule that all
          > mundane archers have in
          > flesh and blood - an arrow
          > that got touched before it
          > got scored does not count,
          > as a touch can induce a line
          > break. Is this an
          > intentional ommission? If
          > so, I would be interested in
          > the intent behind it.
          > >>>
          > >>>YIS
          > >>>
          > >>>Arpad
          > >>>
          > >>>________________________________
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • Carolus
          I can address this for Caid since I was there for the writing of the first handbook. It was not consciously addressed because the majority of archers at the
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 1, 2013
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            I can address this for Caid since I was there for the writing of the first handbook.  It was not consciously addressed because the majority of archers at the time came from the ranks of collegiate or avocational competitive shooters and it is an ingrained habit for them.  We always taught it to new archers and so was simply a part the the culture.  It simply wasn't a needed rule at the time.  The worry was not so much one of gaining an undeserved point as it was costing another archer a point they deserved. 
            Carolus
            On 7/1/2013 10:30 AM, Suzanne Lacey wrote:
             

            I've seen some excited discussion of where exactly a line might be (I now use Sharpies to make novelty target lines very clear), but I've never seen any deliberate cheating in an SCA shoot. I agree that the loss of honor would be significant in our Society and never worth a point even if no one but the cheater knew. So, yes, most likely a deliberate omission.

            Suzanne

            On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:32 AM, <drosen105@...> wrote:
             

            I believe it's a deliberate omission since the SCA is based on honor and chivalry
            Rupert.



            Dave Rosen
            drosen105@...


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bernhard Rohrer <graylion@...>
            To: SCA-Archery yahoogroups.com <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 11:38 am
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question

             
            Greetings good gentles

            I have just come back to SCA Archery after 10 year's abstention and have reread all rules to refamiliarise myself. I have noticed with interest that no rulset mentions a rule that all mundane archers have in flesh and blood - an arrow that got touched before it got scored does not count, as a touch can induce a line break. Is this an intentional ommission? If so, I would be interested in the intent behind it.

            YIS

            Arpad




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