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SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question

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  • The Greys
    While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 1, 2013
      While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for consistency. Thus if the clout is 100 yards, it is 100 yards. But if we consider how many folks NEVER get inside the "castle" at 100 yards much less hit the man sized target inside or even the ring on it's belt does 12 inches or so really make that much difference?

      As for flattening target paper to define touching line or not, I've seen that too. But I ask the larger question, "Is one point really that important?" I have seen several folks strutting about the ranges at Gulf Wars and Pennsic telling all within earshot what amazing archers they are and how many deer they harvest each season only to see them step to the line and be hard pressed to hit the ground! I'm not a hunter but I do have deer walk through my yard daily. I have yet to get one single deer stand at exactly 20, 30 or even 40 yards! I've considered leaving signs in the front and back yard to assist them but I don't know if they can read.......

      My point is, I personally am significantly more impressed by an archer who can step to the line in a novelty shoot where the distance is unknown and hit the target. I'm am not terribly impressed by archers who only shoot Royal Rounds. However, I do fully understand the value of Royal Round scores when comparing myself to other archers whom I may never shoot on the same line with, i.e. other kingdoms. In Atlantia our top archers have great RR scores but also shoot amazing at novelty shoots. Simply stated, they are great complete archers. My opinion.

      But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.

      This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their scores.

      Just saying,
      cog
    • Janyn Fletcher
      Well said COG and I have to agree whole heartedly with you. Of course here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time again that many
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 1, 2013
        Well said COG and I have to agree whole heartedly with you. Of course here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at novelty shoots. I would hate to see our game swing to slide rules and lasers to determine if an archer gets the extra point or not? I think I speak for most Atlantia archers we would much rather give up a point and keep smiling/ have fun than vise versa.
         
        Janyn
         

        From: The Greys <cogworks@...>
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 3:15 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question
         
        While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for consistency. Thus if the clout is 100 yards, it is 100 yards. But if we consider how many folks NEVER get inside the "castle" at 100 yards much less hit the man sized target inside or even the ring on it's belt does 12 inches or so really make that much difference?

        As for flattening target paper to define touching line or not, I've seen that too. But I ask the larger question, "Is one point really that important?" I have seen several folks strutting about the ranges at Gulf Wars and Pennsic telling all within earshot what amazing archers they are and how many deer they harvest each season only to see them step to the line and be hard pressed to hit the ground! I'm not a hunter but I do have deer walk through my yard daily. I have yet to get one single deer stand at exactly 20, 30 or even 40 yards! I've considered leaving signs in the front and back yard to assist them but I don't know if they can read.......

        My point is, I personally am significantly more impressed by an archer who can step to the line in a novelty shoot where the distance is unknown and hit the target. I'm am not terribly impressed by archers who only shoot Royal Rounds. However, I do fully understand the value of Royal Round scores when comparing myself to other archers whom I may never shoot on the same line with, i.e. other kingdoms. In Atlantia our top archers have great RR scores but also shoot amazing at novelty shoots. Simply stated, they are great complete archers. My opinion.

        But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.

        This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their scores.

        Just saying,
        cog

      • Siegfried
        ... Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to try to get
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 1, 2013
          On 7/1/13 6:08 PM, Janyn Fletcher wrote:
          > here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time
          > again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at
          > novelty shoots

          Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There
          are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to
          try to get pinpoint accuracy at specific ranges (IE, a RR) ...

          Fall much shorter than their skill at Novelty Shoots would indicate :)

          Siegfried


          --
          Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
          http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
        • Nicholas Calabria
          Siegfried and Janyn, Agreed . Also when combat blunt arrows are used for target archery this is a very different dynamic to using points even for the same
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 2, 2013
            Siegfried and Janyn,

            Agreed .  Also when combat blunt arrows are used for target archery this is a very different dynamic to using
            points even for the same type of target. 

            Add to this accuracy when moving compared to being stationary.  Each change tends to to change the skill requirement in
            some way which for me makes it more challenging, more interesting and more fun. 

            Getting good in all areas would be nice.

            Just my 2c worth.

            Anselm da Calabria
            Barony of Ynys Fawr





            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            CC: janynfletcher@...
            From: siegfried@...
            Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 21:11:33 -0400
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question

             
            On 7/1/13 6:08 PM, Janyn Fletcher wrote:
            > here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time
            > again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at
            > novelty shoots

            Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There
            are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to
            try to get pinpoint accuracy at specific ranges (IE, a RR) ...

            Fall much shorter than their skill at Novelty Shoots would indicate :)

            Siegfried

            --
            Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
            http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/

          • bradb17703
            Scores improve??? In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 5, 2013
              Scores improve???

              In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
              present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
              to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
              I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
              Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
              I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
              add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
              an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
              scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
              chance of "cheating" the score.

              Brada

              > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.

              (snippage)
              >
              > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
              > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
              > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
              > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
              >
              > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
              > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
              > scores.
              >
              > Just saying,
              > cog
              >
              >
            • Jim Pickette
              No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society. JoO
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 5, 2013
                No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society.

                JoO

                ---- bradb@... wrote:
                > Scores improve???
                >
                > In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
                > present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
                > to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
                > I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
                > Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
                > I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
                > add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
                > an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
                > scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
                > chance of "cheating" the score.
                >
                > Brada
                >
                > > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.
                >
                > (snippage)
                > >
                > > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
                > > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
                > > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
                > > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
                > >
                > > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
                > > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
                > > scores.
                > >
                > > Just saying,
                > > cog
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
              • tompilcher
                We normally allow people shooting Royal Rounds to score themselves on the honour system. For most tournaments we have the marshal score all shots. *I*often
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 5, 2013
                  We normally allow people shooting Royal Rounds to score themselves on the honour system.
                   
                  For most tournaments we have the marshal score all shots.
                   
                  *I* often ‘seed’ people in the tournaments I run by their RR scores submitted. People who “fudge” their Royal Rounds scores only handicap themselves.
                   
                  And, yes, we have some who are known to do it. For the most part they are in the middle of the pack and it’s not a huge issue in the submitted scores.
                   
                   
                  James Llewellyn ap Gruffydd, OP
                  OGGS
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  Sent from Windows Mail
                   
                  From: Jim Pickette
                  Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎July‎ ‎05‎, ‎2013 ‎8‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: bradb@...
                   
                   

                  No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society.

                  JoO

                  ---- bradb@... wrote:

                  > Scores improve???
                  >
                  > In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
                  > present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
                  > to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
                  > I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
                  > Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
                  > I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
                  > add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
                  > an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
                  > scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
                  > chance of "cheating" the score.
                  >
                  > Brada
                  >
                  > > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.
                  >
                  > (snippage)
                  > >
                  > > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
                  > > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
                  > > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
                  > > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
                  > >
                  > > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
                  > > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
                  > > scores.
                  > >
                  > > Just saying,
                  > > cog
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >

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