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SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question

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  • JDS
    Thank You William I am curious about that. Would you be willing to share a few examples? I guess the Touching rule maybe less practical in SCA since there
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 1 10:03 AM
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      Thank You William

      I am curious about that.
      Would you be willing to share a few examples?

      I guess the Touching rule maybe less practical in SCA since
      there might be any where from 6 To 60 arrows in one target

      Johan
      An Tir


      From: Bill Tait <arwemakere@...>
      To: sca-archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question
      Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:19 -0700

      SNIP
      But. There are a number of rules in sca archery that are more restrictive than in FITA.
      SNIP
    • Bill Tait
      I ll speak specifically to An Tir, I have not been able to find Ansteorran RR rules online. Distances must be measured, not paced off . This makes sense, to
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 1 11:28 AM
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        I'll speak specifically to An Tir, I have not been able to find Ansteorran RR rules online.

        "Distances must be measured, not paced off". This makes sense, to have some degree of accuracy in range setup. There is, however, to statement regarding tolerance in said measurements. This suggests then that on a measured length of 120ft, the shooting line must be exactly 120'-0" with no deviation. World Archery rules (formerly FITA) allows for up to a +/- 12" on the long distances.

        No switching of bows except for safety reasons. Perfectly acceptable under WA rules. People generally dont shoot multiple setups, as the secomd bow may not be sighted in for the day's shooting conditions. I do kmow one person who would shoot heavier limbs for 90m then switch for lighter ones for the short ends.

        I do not recall what kingdom it was, but I recall discussion some time ago regarding TA authorizations. That one Kingdom r3quired an archer notnonly to authorize to participate, but also to re qualify if he wanted to shoot a heavier bow.

        Nothing like that in modern shooting...

        William Arwemakere

        On 2013-07-01 10:04 AM, "JDS" <ren.touch@...> wrote:
        Thank You William

        I am curious about that.
        Would you be willing to share a few examples?

        I guess the Touching rule maybe less practical in SCA since
        there might be any where from 6 To 60 arrows in one target

        Johan
        An Tir


        From: Bill Tait <arwemakere@...>
        To: sca-archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery rules question
        Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:19 -0700

        SNIP
        But. There are a number of rules in sca archery that are more restrictive than in FITA.
        SNIP


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      • The Greys
        While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 1 12:15 PM
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          While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for consistency. Thus if the clout is 100 yards, it is 100 yards. But if we consider how many folks NEVER get inside the "castle" at 100 yards much less hit the man sized target inside or even the ring on it's belt does 12 inches or so really make that much difference?

          As for flattening target paper to define touching line or not, I've seen that too. But I ask the larger question, "Is one point really that important?" I have seen several folks strutting about the ranges at Gulf Wars and Pennsic telling all within earshot what amazing archers they are and how many deer they harvest each season only to see them step to the line and be hard pressed to hit the ground! I'm not a hunter but I do have deer walk through my yard daily. I have yet to get one single deer stand at exactly 20, 30 or even 40 yards! I've considered leaving signs in the front and back yard to assist them but I don't know if they can read.......

          My point is, I personally am significantly more impressed by an archer who can step to the line in a novelty shoot where the distance is unknown and hit the target. I'm am not terribly impressed by archers who only shoot Royal Rounds. However, I do fully understand the value of Royal Round scores when comparing myself to other archers whom I may never shoot on the same line with, i.e. other kingdoms. In Atlantia our top archers have great RR scores but also shoot amazing at novelty shoots. Simply stated, they are great complete archers. My opinion.

          But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.

          This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their scores.

          Just saying,
          cog
        • Janyn Fletcher
          Well said COG and I have to agree whole heartedly with you. Of course here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time again that many
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 1 3:08 PM
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            Well said COG and I have to agree whole heartedly with you. Of course here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at novelty shoots. I would hate to see our game swing to slide rules and lasers to determine if an archer gets the extra point or not? I think I speak for most Atlantia archers we would much rather give up a point and keep smiling/ have fun than vise versa.
             
            Janyn
             

            From: The Greys <cogworks@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 3:15 PM
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question
             
            While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary. While ranges should be laid out measured instead of paced, I would think that for consistency. Thus if the clout is 100 yards, it is 100 yards. But if we consider how many folks NEVER get inside the "castle" at 100 yards much less hit the man sized target inside or even the ring on it's belt does 12 inches or so really make that much difference?

            As for flattening target paper to define touching line or not, I've seen that too. But I ask the larger question, "Is one point really that important?" I have seen several folks strutting about the ranges at Gulf Wars and Pennsic telling all within earshot what amazing archers they are and how many deer they harvest each season only to see them step to the line and be hard pressed to hit the ground! I'm not a hunter but I do have deer walk through my yard daily. I have yet to get one single deer stand at exactly 20, 30 or even 40 yards! I've considered leaving signs in the front and back yard to assist them but I don't know if they can read.......

            My point is, I personally am significantly more impressed by an archer who can step to the line in a novelty shoot where the distance is unknown and hit the target. I'm am not terribly impressed by archers who only shoot Royal Rounds. However, I do fully understand the value of Royal Round scores when comparing myself to other archers whom I may never shoot on the same line with, i.e. other kingdoms. In Atlantia our top archers have great RR scores but also shoot amazing at novelty shoots. Simply stated, they are great complete archers. My opinion.

            But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.

            This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their scores.

            Just saying,
            cog

          • Siegfried
            ... Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to try to get
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 1 6:11 PM
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              On 7/1/13 6:08 PM, Janyn Fletcher wrote:
              > here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time
              > again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at
              > novelty shoots

              Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There
              are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to
              try to get pinpoint accuracy at specific ranges (IE, a RR) ...

              Fall much shorter than their skill at Novelty Shoots would indicate :)

              Siegfried


              --
              Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
              http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
            • Nicholas Calabria
              Siegfried and Janyn, Agreed . Also when combat blunt arrows are used for target archery this is a very different dynamic to using points even for the same
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 2 12:48 AM
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                Siegfried and Janyn,

                Agreed .  Also when combat blunt arrows are used for target archery this is a very different dynamic to using
                points even for the same type of target. 

                Add to this accuracy when moving compared to being stationary.  Each change tends to to change the skill requirement in
                some way which for me makes it more challenging, more interesting and more fun. 

                Getting good in all areas would be nice.

                Just my 2c worth.

                Anselm da Calabria
                Barony of Ynys Fawr





                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                CC: janynfletcher@...
                From: siegfried@...
                Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 21:11:33 -0400
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] SCA & Fita rules Re:Archery rules question

                 
                On 7/1/13 6:08 PM, Janyn Fletcher wrote:
                > here in Atlantia we value our novelty shoots and have seen time and time
                > again that many archers who excel at RR are much less effective at
                > novelty shoots

                Well said, but also the exact opposite has also often been seen. There
                are those archers who can excel at novelty shoots. But when pressed to
                try to get pinpoint accuracy at specific ranges (IE, a RR) ...

                Fall much shorter than their skill at Novelty Shoots would indicate :)

                Siegfried

                --
                Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/

              • bradb17703
                Scores improve??? In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 5 11:18 AM
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                  Scores improve???

                  In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
                  present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
                  to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
                  I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
                  Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
                  I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
                  add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
                  an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
                  scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
                  chance of "cheating" the score.

                  Brada

                  > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.

                  (snippage)
                  >
                  > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
                  > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
                  > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
                  > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
                  >
                  > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
                  > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
                  > scores.
                  >
                  > Just saying,
                  > cog
                  >
                  >
                • Jim Pickette
                  No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society. JoO
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 5 8:15 PM
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                    No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society.

                    JoO

                    ---- bradb@... wrote:
                    > Scores improve???
                    >
                    > In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
                    > present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
                    > to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
                    > I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
                    > Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
                    > I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
                    > add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
                    > an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
                    > scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
                    > chance of "cheating" the score.
                    >
                    > Brada
                    >
                    > > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.
                    >
                    > (snippage)
                    > >
                    > > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
                    > > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
                    > > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
                    > > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
                    > >
                    > > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
                    > > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
                    > > scores.
                    > >
                    > > Just saying,
                    > > cog
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • tompilcher
                    We normally allow people shooting Royal Rounds to score themselves on the honour system. For most tournaments we have the marshal score all shots. *I*often
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 5 10:36 PM
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                      We normally allow people shooting Royal Rounds to score themselves on the honour system.
                       
                      For most tournaments we have the marshal score all shots.
                       
                      *I* often ‘seed’ people in the tournaments I run by their RR scores submitted. People who “fudge” their Royal Rounds scores only handicap themselves.
                       
                      And, yes, we have some who are known to do it. For the most part they are in the middle of the pack and it’s not a huge issue in the submitted scores.
                       
                       
                      James Llewellyn ap Gruffydd, OP
                      OGGS
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      Sent from Windows Mail
                       
                      From: Jim Pickette
                      Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎July‎ ‎05‎, ‎2013 ‎8‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: bradb@...
                       
                       

                      No chance of cheating exists among our honourable archers. If they do, I will ignore it rather than sew discord within our Society.

                      JoO

                      ---- bradb@... wrote:

                      > Scores improve???
                      >
                      > In Æthelmearc no one touches any arrows until the scoring marshal is
                      > present (exception - deadwood or *noncounters*) Seldom do we allow archers
                      > to 'score' their own rounds and report to the marshal that score (although
                      > I *have* done that on occasion with archers I personally trust [usually a
                      > Marshal in their own right]) The count is added as the arrow is pulled and
                      > I can watch for any inadvertant 'movement' of the target. (Other marshals
                      > add all the arrows *prior* to removal if the target is not "buried" with
                      > an intense cluster of arrows in one area.) Either method requires a
                      > scoring Marshal to be present and witnissing the score. Ergo, little
                      > chance of "cheating" the score.
                      >
                      > Brada
                      >
                      > > While I find this entire thread interesting I also find it unnecessary.
                      >
                      > (snippage)
                      > >
                      > > But I have also seen and heard archers who have their scores "improve" as
                      > > they walk back to the shooting line to report their score. Really? You
                      > > know, if it's that important to you, no problem. But YOU and I both know
                      > > what you did and who can shoot honestly and who can't.
                      > >
                      > > This is a hobby not a profession. I have yet to see anyone get a huge
                      > > contract to represent some archery company from an SCA shoot due to their
                      > > scores.
                      > >
                      > > Just saying,
                      > > cog
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >

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