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Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

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  • Frank Schalles
    Lady Moire Ayres, In Ansteorra: I think that most archery practices are physically separated from normal fighter practice locations because many cities have
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
      Lady Moire Ayres,

      In Ansteorra:
      I think that most archery practices are physically separated from
      normal fighter practice locations
      because many cities have ordinances again shooting arrows within the
      city limits. Most fighter
      practice locations are at public parks, so no co-located archery
      practice. And, normally, the only
      people that attend archery practices are those that wish to practice
      or their families.

      I hope this answers your question.

      Ld Francois de Lions
      Ansteorra

      On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Pat <pat_auten@...> wrote:
      > with non-archers attending practice?
      >
      > Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?
      >
      > Lady Moire Ayres
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    • cecilyodonell@...
      I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I ve been to have had much less space available for
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
        I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

        -Cecily O'Donell
        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

        From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
        Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

         

        with non-archers attending practice?

        Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

        Lady Moire Ayres

      • Chris Ivins
        Lady Moire, I have seen non-archers at our local practices (Barony of Adiantum, Kingdom of An Tir), part of it depends on the location and time of day. We did
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
          Lady Moire,

          I have seen non-archers at our local practices (Barony of Adiantum, Kingdom of An Tir), part of it depends on the location and time of day. We did a lot of shooting at a member's house for some time, and it was fairly convenient/close for others to attend, so we often had a few non-archers attend to chat and watch the shooting. In fact, I got my start showing up and chatting with the archers, then offering to keep score, and then at one point was handed a loaner bow and offered the chance to shoot. That was about a year-and-a-half ago, and I got hooked and have been shooting ever since.
          By the same token, our current outdoor shooting location is a fair distance outside of town, so less non-archers will show up because of the driving distance and time to get there.
          Our indoor/Winter range is in town, and we have occasional non-archers drop by and watch/chat, though they are limited by the amount of space on the range.

          - IS,
                  Iurii Levchenich
                  Deputy to HL Johanna Trewpeny, Adiantum Archery Officer



          From: Pat <pat_auten@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:26 AM
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

          with non-archers attending practice?

          Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

          Lady Moire Ayres



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        • Jude Harrison
          Hello Lady Moire Well, in my Barony we are blessed with a large indoor range on two levels. Non archers routinely come out just to visit and then join us
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
            Hello Lady Moire
             
            Well, in my Barony we are blessed with a large indoor range on two levels.  Non archers routinely come out just to visit and then join us after our Friday evening practice for a pint at the local pub.
             
            Its pretty common to have non archers come visit, bring projects and generally encourage us and we appreciate their support.  Because the archery centre we shoot at is a mundane business, we get some fair amount of crossover too.  The latest couple of members of our barony is a result of meeting folks at the archery centre, being friendly and encouraging.
             
            Morrigan
            Barony of Montengarde
            Avacal, An Tir


            We must learn to live together as brothers
            or perish together as fools.

            ~ Martin Luther King Jr

             
            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > From: pat_auten@...
            > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:26:23 +0000
            > Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...
            >
            > with non-archers attending practice?
            >
            > Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?
            >
            > Lady Moire Ayres
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > --
            > THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL SCA SITE.
            >
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/
            >
            > <*> Your email settings:
            > Individual Email | Traditional
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          • Sean Powell
            Interesting. My first heavy practice site at a college had little to no socialization. The second in a park had more. My first archery practice was a SCAdian
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
              Interesting. My first heavy practice site at a college had little to no socialization. The second in a park had more. My first archery practice was a SCAdian backyard and the house had more socalizing then shooting.

              I suspect that archery is a 'solitary' activity since you can shoot without an opponent. It is also something that almost anyone can try with minimal investment in equipment and without physical harm. This means that any attendie can participate.

              Fighting on the other hand is a 'group' activity as you need an opponent and a practice with only 3 fighters is dull (archery range with 3 people is efficient). People who attend a fighter practice may make the commitment to fight but it's a steep investment so it keeps many more people in the social/watching category.

              Example: If I bring my wife and daughter to the range they will bring their bows and shoot some. That means they aren't counted as social watchers. If they come to heavy practice there is no way for either to participate so all they can be is social... I suspect that the gathering with greatest social facets is youth fighter practice as parents need to attend but have little to do other then watch.
               
              Sean


              On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
               

              I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

              -Cecily O'Donell

              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

              From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
              Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

               

              with non-archers attending practice?

              Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

              Lady Moire Ayres


            • Doug Copley
              The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                Vincenti
                Ansteorra


                On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                 

                I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                -Cecily O'Donell

                Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                 

                with non-archers attending practice?

                Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                Lady Moire Ayres


              • killergi_2006
                Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn t stop much activities during war. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Doug Copley
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                  Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war.
                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                  From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                  Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                  To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                   

                  The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                  Vincenti
                  Ansteorra


                  On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                   

                  I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                  -Cecily O'Donell

                  Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                  From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                  Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                   

                  with non-archers attending practice?

                  Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                  Lady Moire Ayres


                • killergi_2006
                  Summer, drink more water, winter add clothing. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Doug Copley Sender:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                    Summer, drink more water, winter add clothing.
                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                    From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                    Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                    To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                     

                    The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                    Vincenti
                    Ansteorra


                    On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                     

                    I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                    -Cecily O'Donell

                    Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                    From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                    Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                     

                    with non-archers attending practice?

                    Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                    Lady Moire Ayres


                  • The Greys
                    First off, I m lucky to live on 4 1/2 acres so I can host archery practices at my house. When we first started several years back we regularly got 10 - 14
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                      First off, I'm lucky to live on 4 1/2 acres so I can host archery practices at my house. When we first started several years back we regularly got 10 - 14 archers and 8 - 12 A&S socializers. If you will, it was a mini non-garb event.

                      But I think the larger issue of why archery events don't have the onlookers like the heavy practices do is archery itself. I LOVE archery BUT watching someone else shoot at five colored rings is BORING! Recently I have had several non-archers tell me how exciting it was watching paired archers shoot off against each other. I firmly believe, and my personal experience has proved this, that if you make the shooting exciting, people will watch. At practices shooting something other than the five colored rings will also make you a better archer, plus it's more fun.

                      I recall a shoot at the Gulf Wars GET a few years back. The purpose of the GET is to showcase the best of the best and bring archery out in front of the populous. The archers were divided into two teams, challengers and champions. One archer from each side shot one shaft, then the next archer in line moved up. The target was a horizontal arm with small water balloons hanging from each side. The objective was for each team to pop their balloons before the other team could. This shoot was fun and exciting to watch and we had a good crowd of non-archer onlookers.

                      Often at Atlantian Royal Archer Champion shoots the final shoot comes down to a speed round between the two finalists. It usually is something like a pool noodle at 40 yards, a target at 30 yards, something at 20. Each archer has their own "side" set like this. The final is a skeet clay at about 15 yards. The objective is for the archers to hit each target starting at the farthest then moving closer with the winner being the archer who first hits the skeet clay after hitting all targets on their side.

                      These types of shoots show case archery and the archers. I can't tell you how many times I have heard heavy fighters who "just happen to be watching" say "I had no idea they could shoot like that!". We all know of the arrow storms of the Medieval battles but to actually see an archer, handbow or crossbow, get off 6 - 9 shafts in 30 seconds is impressive and exciting to watch. I personally have heard comments from onlookers like "How do they hit that? It's so small!", i.e. tennis ball on a stick at about 20 yards.

                      Besides, we archers are inviting, friendly, intelligent, fun people to be around! Make your shoots fun and inviting and you will get not only the new folks but some A&S onlookers.

                      cog
                    • Doug Copley
                      lol, nope it sure didn t! I cancel when it is getting down to freezing to protect people and equipment and when it is over 100. In the winter I have practices
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                        lol, nope it sure didn't! I cancel when it is getting down to freezing to protect people and equipment and when it is over 100. In the winter I have practices later in the day to let it get as warm as possible, in the summer I move it earlier in the day.

                        Vincenti


                        On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:24 AM, <killergi_2006@...> wrote:
                         

                        Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war.

                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                        Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                         

                        The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                        Vincenti
                        Ansteorra


                        On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                         

                        I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                        -Cecily O'Donell

                        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                        From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                        Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                         

                        with non-archers attending practice?

                        Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                        Lady Moire Ayres



                      • James of the Lake
                        Yes. War arrows were the king s arrows in those days. But when the wind starts breaking *our* arrows, it s time to quit for the day. My Mistress and I host
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                          Yes.  War arrows were the king's arrows in those days.

                          But when the wind starts breaking *our* arrows, it's time to quit for the day.  My Mistress and I host the range for the Barony of Naevehjem, Caid, and we hold outdoor practices on Sundays throughout the year.  Even a few miles out of town limits bystanders; we do not cancel practices due to heat or cold, but people vote with their feet. ;-)

                          James


                          On Jun 4, 2013, at 6:24 AM, killergi_2006@... wrote:

                           

                          Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war.

                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                          From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                          Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                           

                          The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                          Vincenti
                          Ansteorra



                        • Chris Ivins
                          Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn t stop much activities during war. The other side to that is that it was their LIFE, for us it is a
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                            "Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war."

                            The other side to that is that it was their LIFE, for us it is a hobby(I hope), and many people have jobs with bosses that get upset when someone gets sick from pneumonia and/or heatstroke and can't be at their job. ;-)

                            Plus, no one likes to be miserable while flinging arrows, especially when they are practicing.

                            From what I know of medieval times, they didn't use porta-potties or even toilet paper, but we don't duplicate their historical practices, either.

                            - Iurii


                            From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:38 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...



                            lol, nope it sure didn't! I cancel when it is getting down to freezing to protect people and equipment and when it is over 100. In the winter I have practices later in the day to let it get as warm as possible, in the summer I move it earlier in the day.

                            Vincenti


                            On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:24 AM, <killergi_2006@...> wrote:
                             
                            Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war.
                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                            From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                            Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                             
                            The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                            Vincenti
                            Ansteorra


                            On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                             
                            I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                            -Cecily O'Donell
                            Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                            From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                            Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                             
                            with non-archers attending practice?

                            Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                            Lady Moire Ayres







                          • tompilcher
                            I would think weather WOULD have made a difference. Using sinew and other natural products, archery was not as effective range-wise in the heavy rain. There
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                              I would think weather WOULD have made a difference. Using sinew and other natural products, archery was not as effective range-wise in the heavy rain. There was a reason the archers sometimes kept spare strings under their hat to keep them dry. And for the most part the campaign season was spring to fall. Wars were overly hard and expensive during the winter months, something Napoleon failed to learn.
                               
                               
                              Baron James 
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              Sent from Windows Mail
                               
                              From: Chris Ivins
                              Sent: ‎June‎ ‎4‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎44‎ ‎AM
                              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...
                               
                               

                              "Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war."

                              The other side to that is that it was their LIFE, for us it is a hobby(I hope), and many people have jobs with bosses that get upset when someone gets sick from pneumonia and/or heatstroke and can't be at their job. ;-)

                              Plus, no one likes to be miserable while flinging arrows, especially when they are practicing.

                              From what I know of medieval times, they didn't use porta-potties or even toilet paper, but we don't duplicate their historical practices, either.

                              - Iurii


                              From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:38 AM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...



                              lol, nope it sure didn't! I cancel when it is getting down to freezing to protect people and equipment and when it is over 100. In the winter I have practices later in the day to let it get as warm as possible, in the summer I move it earlier in the day.

                              Vincenti


                              On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:24 AM, <killergi_2006@...> wrote:
                               
                              Well from what I know of medeival times, weather didn't stop much activities during war.
                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                              From: Doug Copley <doug.copley@...>
                              Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:58:01 -0500
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                               
                              The problem for the Barony of Namron. Ansteorra, is that to give us the room we want and storage our practice has always been held a ways out of the city, so not many people want to travel out to it unless we are doing a special cookout or something. We shoot outdoors year round, we have to cancel as many practices because of heat as we do cold:-)

                              Vincenti
                              Ansteorra


                              On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:05 PM, <cecilyodonell@...> wrote:
                               
                              I feel like a possible reason for this may be space limitation. The archery practice locations I've been to have had much less space available for socialization than the fighter practices I've been to. This is especially true during the months when weather prevents outdoor archery practices. Indoor archery ranges can be... a bit cramped.

                              -Cecily O'Donell
                              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                              From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>
                              Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:26:23 -0000
                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                               
                              with non-archers attending practice?

                              Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                              Lady Moire Ayres

                               

                               



                               


                               

                            • Wanda Lee Kinnie
                              In Bright Hills (Kingdom of Atlantia), our Archery Practices are held on Sundays; our Fighter practices are held Friday Eves with other stuff going on at the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 5, 2013

                                In Bright Hills (Kingdom of Atlantia), our Archery Practices are held on Sundays; our Fighter practices are held Friday Eves with other stuff going on at the same time. But then again, the fighter practice is indoors and the archery is not. Is is not often that non-archers show up on Sundays, but if they did, I am quite sure that we “will” end up putting a bow in the hands and having them enjoy themselves.



                                LadyWanda Ostojowna
                                http://tinyurl.com/ankdx2n

                                 

                                 

                                 


                                From: "Pat" <pat_auten@...>

                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] What is your experience...

                                 

                                  with non-archers attending practice?

                                Often there are non-fighters at fighter practice, but it doesn't seem that this reciprocates with the archery community. My observation is that only archers (and maybe their immediate families) show up to archery practice. Or is that different in other parts of the Known World?

                                Lady Moire Ayres

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