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Re: [SCA-Archery] Period, non-period, and crossbows. WAS: Re: Crossbows vs Others

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  • richard johnson
    ... True. When I started, I was one of the few people in my Barony who was fortunate enough to have found a wooden self-bow at a swap meet. It DID have a
    Message 1 of 94 , May 20 12:47 PM
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      >>Period equipment
      >>Its the intersection of two conflicting ideas: the encouragement and proliferation of period gear on the line and the "everyone can hop in" easily approached nature of SCA archery. That line of conflict, as Jon eluded to, is slowly dissolving away as entry level periodish gear becomes cheaper and more readily available.

      True.
      When I started, I was one of the few people in my Barony who was
      fortunate enough to have found a wooden self-bow at a swap meet. It
      DID have a cut-out arrow-shelf but it was the only wood bow on the
      line, all others being fiberglass recurves or wham-o crossbows with
      aluminum bows.

      >> If one wishes to limit crossbows to period only, then one would have to limit handbows to period only. This would mean no take-down bows with bolt on limbs and no built up risers with cut-outs with built in arrow rests.

      It is fairly easy to buy a non-compound crossbow, but to find one with
      a wood stock is extremely difficult. To find ne with a Period trigger
      & gear is extremely diffifcult, unless you can spend a large amount of
      money.
      My crossbow was the old wood-stock wham-o. I now have an aluminum
      stock & steel bow but this is not an SCA bow<g>.
      For some time I used my Vietnamese mahogony crossbow but the draw was
      too great and I could never find a string that would survive long.
      plus the trigger was, at best, touchy and no safety.

      Fortunatly, it is getting easier and easier to find wood self bows at
      a very reasonable price. GI-Bow.com is my preferred dealer. Others
      rave equally about other dealers. but you can purchase a decent
      Period longbow for under $100 which makes me wonder why people will
      still spend $200 and up for a fiberglass recurve when they can get a
      really decent longbow for far less.

      On 5/20/13, Ken Dolphin <kldolphin@...> wrote:
      > The Barony of Lions Gate has a company of archers. To become a part of this
      > company you have to do a number of things, including having a royal round
      > average in period longbow, period open ( horsebows, etc), and period
      > crossbow. It was formed to encourage more people to shoot in the period
      > categories.
      >
      > Kenneth
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: John R. Edgerton
      > To: okami49
      > Cc: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:46 AM
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Period, non-period, and crossbows. WAS: Re:
      > Crossbows vs Others
      >
      >
      >
      > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what incentives could be used to
      > further encourage the use of period style equipment?
      >
      > Jon
      >
      > okami49 <baiorofred@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > [u]Period equipment[/u]
      > The use of period gear is a topic near and dear to my heart. Really, its
      > the intersection of two conflicting ideas: the encouragement and
      > proliferation of period gear on the line and the "everyone can hop in"
      > easily approached nature of SCA archery. That line of conflict, as Jon
      > eluded to, is slowly dissolving away as entry level periodish gear becomes
      > cheaper and more readily available.
      >
      > I don't think we are at the stage yet where we should make period gear a
      > requirement, but I do think we should consider adding more incentives to
      > their use.
      >
      > -Eogan
      >
      > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > This could lead to an interesting discussion.
      > >
      > > The Society target archery rules allow the use of both non-period
      > handbows and
      > > crossbows. If one wishes to limit crossbows to period only, then one
      > would have
      > > to limit handbows to period only. This would mean no take-down bows with
      > bolt
      > > on limbs and no built up risers with cut-outs with built in arrow rests.
      > This
      > > would greatly reduce the number of archers shooting at our events. All
      > handbows
      > > are not required by the Society target archery rules to meet period
      > > requirements. Kingdoms may make stricter rules regarding equipment such
      > as
      > > requiring only period gear. However, they can not reduce the rules and
      > allow
      > > compound bows and aluminum or fiberglass shafting or plastic vanes.
      > >
      > > The SCA target archery rules do not differentiate between period and
      > non-period
      > > bows. The period versus non-period division of bows is either a kingdom
      > rule or
      > > an IKAC rule. There is no SCA definition of "period gear".
      > >
      > > "October 2003
      > > 3
      > > Equipment Standards
      > > General Standards
      > > 1.
      > > All equipment should be consistent with pre-17th century archery in
      > looks and
      > > function. The
      > > construction, use, and knowledge of period-style equipment and its safe
      > use are
      > > among the primary
      > > goals of SCA archery. However, the use of modern equipment is permitted
      > provided
      > > it meets the
      > >
      > > equipment standards spelled out below."
      > >
      > > 2.
      > > Nothing in these rules shall be interpreted as preventing a Kingdom or
      > branch
      > > from making rules
      > > requiring the use of period style equipment in a period division or a
      > specific
      > > competition. The rules
      > >
      > > allow the use of modern style bows, but do not require that all
      > competitions
      > > allow their use."
      > >
      > > Does the East allow modern recurves with take-down bolt-on limbs and
      > center-cut
      > > risers? If so, they are not requiring period style bows.
      > >
      > > The use of period style gear should be strongly encouraged at our
      > events.
      > > However, it is not required.
      > >
      > > When the SCA target archery rules were written (I was involved in this)
      >
      > > requiring only period style gear would have greatly limited the number
      > of people
      > > that could afford to purchase or make it at that time. However, since
      > that time
      > > the book "The Bowyer's Bible" with its information on lumber yard board
      > bows is
      > > now available for building inexpensive longbows. Eastern style "Horse
      > bows" with
      > > fiberglass limbs can be purchased for a reasonable price. And just
      > recently the
      > > use of PVC water pipe, "The Impossible Bow", for building inexpensive
      > period
      > > looking bows is being tried by some archers. So I think that is
      > reasonable to
      > > consider that we more strongly encourage the use of period style gear.
      > We should
      > > never completely restrict the use the use of modern gear. For this would
      >
      > > discourage new archers, that do not yet have period gear, from
      > participating in
      > > archery in the SCA.
      > >
      > > Adjustable rear peep sights on crossbows were used in late period and
      > that is
      > > why they are allowed in the period crossbow division.
      > >
      > > I think this can become a worthwhile discussion of the goals of SCA
      > target
      > > archery. However, let us all please keep it polite.
      > >
      > > Jon
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: William Davis <willied0296@...>
      > > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 6:56:22 AM
      > > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Crossbows vs Others
      > >
      > >
      > > I know this has been hashed out numerous times, in numerous places, but
      > this
      > > again brings up a point. Why are crossbows allowed to use peep sights,
      > rifle
      > > stocks, pistol grips, and modern trigger releases, while aside from
      > modern
      > > lamination, handbows are still required to meet period requirements (no
      >
      > > mechanical releases, no sights other than elevation marks on the riser,
      > and even
      > > the elevation mark issue gets argued in places)? That said, one other
      > question,
      > > is this perhaps strictly an EK thing, or does the above apply in other
      > Kingdoms
      > > as well?
      > > I'm sure there are those who will find some way to justify it,
      > >
      > >
      > > Let the fireworks begin.
      > >
      > > Gwilym
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Rick Johnson
      http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
      "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
      security will soon find that they have neither."
    • pat_auten
      Having read comments, and having almost been driven away by one obsessed with perfection, my concern is omission. I like the concept that was presented that
      Message 94 of 94 , May 25 9:48 AM
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        Having read comments, and having almost been driven away by one obsessed with perfection, my concern is omission. I like the concept that was presented that included archers like myself. Limiting a guild to only those with period equipment is exclusionary and could end up fragmenting our community. I could, however, be misunderstanding your use of the term "period" and the inclusion of those with non-period equipment. IMHO, if this guild is to be proposed as a society-wide entity it can't exclude any portion of our community and be successful.

        Moire Ayres, archer
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