Re: [SCA-Archery] Period, non-period, and crossbows. WAS: Re: Crossbows vs Others
- Jon Et Al,
>I started fighting wearing a freon can helmet. Once they became available, people debated whether it was possible to switch to SCA armorer made helmets. The hand formed helmets took a long time to make, were made by only a few people with specialized and hard to find tools, and they were expensive. It was considered to be impossible to switch from freon cans. Only the rich could afford them, so most fighters would have to give up armored combat if the switch was made. Then suddenly Freon can helmets were outlawed and grand-fathered. All new helmets had to be hand made. Suddenly every large SCA group was gathering tools and promoting armoring. Racks of ready made helmets for sale began appearing at events and prices dropped. Surprisingly people managed to buy the new helmets, even the people who swore they would quit the SCA if freon can helmets were ever banned.
>Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
> At 11:46 AM 5/19/2013, you wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what incentives could be used to further encourage the use of period style equipment?
okami49 <baiorofred@...> wrote:
The use of period gear is a topic near and dear to my heart. Really, its the intersection of two conflicting ideas: the encouragement and proliferation of period gear on the line and the "everyone can hop in" easily approached nature of SCA archery. That line of conflict, as Jon eluded to, is slowly dissolving away as entry level periodish gear becomes cheaper and more readily available.
I don't think we are at the stage yet where we should make period gear a requirement, but I do think we should consider adding more incentives to their use.
--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
> This could lead to an interesting discussion.
> The Society target archery rules allow the use of both non-period handbows and
> crossbows. If one wishes to limit crossbows to period only, then one would have
> to limit handbows to period only. This would mean no take-down bows with bolt
> on limbs and no built up risers with cut-outs with built in arrow rests. This
> would greatly reduce the number of archers shooting at our events. All handbows
> are not required by the Society target archery rules to meet period
> requirements. Kingdoms may make stricter rules regarding equipment such as
> requiring only period gear. However, they can not reduce the rules and allow
> compound bows and aluminum or fiberglass shafting or plastic vanes.
> The SCA target archery rules do not differentiate between period and non-period
> bows. The period versus non-period division of bows is either a kingdom rule or
> an IKAC rule. There is no SCA definition of "period gear".
> "October 2003
> Equipment Standards
> General Standards
> All equipment should be consistent with pre-17th century archery in looks and
> function. The
> construction, use, and knowledge of period-style equipment and its safe use are
> among the primary
> goals of SCA archery. However, the use of modern equipment is permitted provided
> it meets the
> equipment standards spelled out below."
> Nothing in these rules shall be interpreted as preventing a Kingdom or branch
> from making rules
> requiring the use of period style equipment in a period division or a specific
> competition. The rules
> allow the use of modern style bows, but do not require that all competitions
> allow their use."
> Does the East allow modern recurves with take-down bolt-on limbs and center-cut
> risers? If so, they are not requiring period style bows.
> The use of period style gear should be strongly encouraged at our events.
> However, it is not required.
> When the SCA target archery rules were written (I was involved in this)
> requiring only period style gear would have greatly limited the number of people
> that could afford to purchase or make it at that time. However, since that time
> the book "The Bowyer's Bible" with its information on lumber yard board bows is
> now available for building inexpensive longbows. Eastern style "Horse bows" with
> fiberglass limbs can be purchased for a reasonable price. And just recently the
> use of PVC water pipe, "The Impossible Bow", for building inexpensive period
> looking bows is being tried by some archers. So I think that is reasonable to
> consider that we more strongly encourage the use of period style gear. We should
> never completely restrict the use the use of modern gear. For this would
> discourage new archers, that do not yet have period gear, from participating in
> archery in the SCA.
> Adjustable rear peep sights on crossbows were used in late period and that is
> why they are allowed in the period crossbow division.
> I think this can become a worthwhile discussion of the goals of SCA target
> archery. However, let us all please keep it polite.
> From: William Davis <willied0296@...>
> To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 6:56:22 AM
> Subject: [SCA-Archery] Crossbows vs Others
> I know this has been hashed out numerous times, in numerous places, but this
> again brings up a point. Why are crossbows allowed to use peep sights, rifle
> stocks, pistol grips, and modern trigger releases, while aside from modern
> lamination, handbows are still required to meet period requirements (no
> mechanical releases, no sights other than elevation marks on the riser, and even
> the elevation mark issue gets argued in places)? That said, one other question,
> is this perhaps strictly an EK thing, or does the above apply in other Kingdoms
> as well?
> I'm sure there are those who will find some way to justify it,
> Let the fireworks begin.
- Having read comments, and having almost been driven away by one obsessed with perfection, my concern is omission. I like the concept that was presented that included archers like myself. Limiting a guild to only those with period equipment is exclusionary and could end up fragmenting our community. I could, however, be misunderstanding your use of the term "period" and the inclusion of those with non-period equipment. IMHO, if this guild is to be proposed as a society-wide entity it can't exclude any portion of our community and be successful.
Moire Ayres, archer