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Re: Which Bitzenburger do you recommend

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  • aelric_southlake
    Hey Tom, That s a nice fletch jig, widely considered the industry standard. I use a Jo-Jan, and love it. And congratulations on taking your first steps into
    Message 1 of 11 , May 5, 2013
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      Hey Tom, That's a nice fletch jig, widely considered the industry
      standard. I use a Jo-Jan, and love it. And congratulations on taking
      your first steps into the world of making your own arrows!

      You say you are shooting a longbow - modern (arrow shelf, pistol-ish
      grip) or "period" (off the knuckle)? I ask because if you are shooting
      a modern longbow you might as well fletch helical. But if you are
      shooting a period-ish type bow, I'd HIGHLY RECOMMEND you fletch
      straight.

      Heck, even if you ARE shooting a modern style longbow, I'd fletch
      straight - that way, later when you take your next step into "whipping"
      (spiral wrapping) your arrows, you can do that to the sets you've
      already made. Some might endorse the helical to you for its "rifling"
      effects, but... this is a medieval club. My modern bow shoots helical
      fletch carbon arrows. But I wouldn't do that to the wooden arrows I
      make to shoot SCA. Up to you. Straight fletch shoots nice too. The
      trick is keeping those wooden arrow shafts straight, ha ha ha, not the
      style of fletch so much...

      If you aren't totally strapped for cash, I'd recommend a fletching
      chopper from 3 Rivers Archery too. They've got some shapes that are
      more period-ish than the standard "parabolic," or "shield" shapes.
      Chopping your own fletching is fun! You might get lucky and find some
      period-ish pre-cut fletching on e-bay (I did once). In this household
      we have a "traditional," and a "Pope & Young" chopper (sometimes called
      "raptor," if you are looking for pre-cut). Putting period-ish shaped
      fletching on your own arrows makes the effort you put in really
      worthwhile. ...Or, if you live in West Kingdom, or ever get out this
      way, you are welcome to come over and chop away!

      Anyway, just my 2 cents. But my philosophy, as regards this kinda thing,
      is: "You can't always be completely period - and sometimes not even
      close - but when a choice arises where leaning toward the period IS an
      option, well then..."

      I'm no arrow expert (there are a bunch of them here) but I've been
      through a bit of this, so if you have any questions don't hesitate to
      contact me off list either. There's lots of stuff to know, like, how to
      align nocks, etc.

      ~ Aelric, West K.


      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "tomjulessca" wrote:
      >
      > Relatively new to archery (now shooting a 45# longbow) and have never
      made an arrow. The two dozen arrows I purchased have (had) helical
      fletching.
      >
      > After reading lots of reviews and other research, I am going to buy a
      Bitzenburger jig. However, none of my research described comparison
      between using a helical jig & clamp vs a straight jig & left hand clamp.
      >
      > Any input regarding relative merit will be appreciated. Thanks.
      >
      > Tom
      >
    • Carolus
      You can t get better. I ve got 2 of these with straight and left helical clamps. Some say you should match the helical twist to your shooting style; if you
      Message 2 of 11 , May 5, 2013
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        You can't get better.  I've got 2 of these with straight and left helical clamps.  Some say you should match the helical twist to your shooting style; if you shoot right-handed, use right helical, if left-handed, left helical.  A few say use the reverse.  I don't think it matters.  Personally, I prefer the straight for most uses.  I can set the twist either direction that way.  Some say you get better rifling with helical but I don't rally see a difference.  FWIW, I've been shooting nearly 50 years, both SCA and Olympic form including national level competition and I've made a lot of arrows over the years. 
        On 5/5/2013 6:25 PM, tomjulessca wrote:
         

        Relatively new to archery (now shooting a 45# longbow) and have never made an arrow. The two dozen arrows I purchased have (had) helical fletching.

        After reading lots of reviews and other research, I am going to buy a Bitzenburger jig. However, none of my research described comparison between using a helical jig & clamp vs a straight jig & left hand clamp.

        Any input regarding relative merit will be appreciated. Thanks.

        Tom


      • tomjulessca
        Aelric, Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take
        Message 3 of 11 , May 6, 2013
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          Aelric,

          Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take you up on guidance through the process - thanks.

          Tom

          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hey Tom, That's a nice fletch jig, widely considered the industry
          > standard. I use a Jo-Jan, and love it. And congratulations on taking
          > your first steps into the world of making your own arrows!
          >
          > You say you are shooting a longbow - modern (arrow shelf, pistol-ish
          > grip) or "period" (off the knuckle)? I ask because if you are shooting
          > a modern longbow you might as well fletch helical. But if you are
          > shooting a period-ish type bow, I'd HIGHLY RECOMMEND you fletch
          > straight.
          >
          > Heck, even if you ARE shooting a modern style longbow, I'd fletch
          > straight - that way, later when you take your next step into "whipping"
          > (spiral wrapping) your arrows, you can do that to the sets you've
          > already made. Some might endorse the helical to you for its "rifling"
          > effects, but... this is a medieval club. My modern bow shoots helical
          > fletch carbon arrows. But I wouldn't do that to the wooden arrows I
          > make to shoot SCA. Up to you. Straight fletch shoots nice too. The
          > trick is keeping those wooden arrow shafts straight, ha ha ha, not the
          > style of fletch so much...
          >
          > If you aren't totally strapped for cash, I'd recommend a fletching
          > chopper from 3 Rivers Archery too. They've got some shapes that are
          > more period-ish than the standard "parabolic," or "shield" shapes.
          > Chopping your own fletching is fun! You might get lucky and find some
          > period-ish pre-cut fletching on e-bay (I did once). In this household
          > we have a "traditional," and a "Pope & Young" chopper (sometimes called
          > "raptor," if you are looking for pre-cut). Putting period-ish shaped
          > fletching on your own arrows makes the effort you put in really
          > worthwhile. ...Or, if you live in West Kingdom, or ever get out this
          > way, you are welcome to come over and chop away!
          >
          > Anyway, just my 2 cents. But my philosophy, as regards this kinda thing,
          > is: "You can't always be completely period - and sometimes not even
          > close - but when a choice arises where leaning toward the period IS an
          > option, well then..."
          >
          > I'm no arrow expert (there are a bunch of them here) but I've been
          > through a bit of this, so if you have any questions don't hesitate to
          > contact me off list either. There's lots of stuff to know, like, how to
          > align nocks, etc.
          >
          > ~ Aelric, West K.
          >
          >
          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "tomjulessca" wrote:
          > >
          > > Relatively new to archery (now shooting a 45# longbow) and have never
          > made an arrow. The two dozen arrows I purchased have (had) helical
          > fletching.
          > >
          > > After reading lots of reviews and other research, I am going to buy a
          > Bitzenburger jig. However, none of my research described comparison
          > between using a helical jig & clamp vs a straight jig & left hand clamp.
          > >
          > > Any input regarding relative merit will be appreciated. Thanks.
          > >
          > > Tom
          > >
          >
        • tomjulessca
          Carolus, If there isn t much difference I do prefer the aesthetic of the straight. Thanks for the input. Tom
          Message 4 of 11 , May 6, 2013
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            Carolus,

            If there isn't much difference I do prefer the aesthetic of the straight. Thanks for the input.

            Tom

            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
            >
            > You can't get better. I've got 2 of these with straight and left
            > helical clamps. Some say you should match the helical twist to your
            > shooting style; if you shoot right-handed, use right helical, if
            > left-handed, left helical. A few say use the reverse. I don't think it
            > matters. Personally, I prefer the straight for most uses. I can set the
            > twist either direction that way. Some say you get better rifling with
            > helical but I don't rally see a difference. FWIW, I've been shooting
            > nearly 50 years, both SCA and Olympic form including national level
            > competition and I've made a lot of arrows over the years.
            > On 5/5/2013 6:25 PM, tomjulessca wrote:
            > >
            > > Relatively new to archery (now shooting a 45# longbow) and have never
            > > made an arrow. The two dozen arrows I purchased have (had) helical
            > > fletching.
            > >
            > > After reading lots of reviews and other research, I am going to buy a
            > > Bitzenburger jig. However, none of my research described comparison
            > > between using a helical jig & clamp vs a straight jig & left hand clamp.
            > >
            > > Any input regarding relative merit will be appreciated. Thanks.
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > >
            >
          • aelric_southlake
            Been trying to make it to a Windymeads practice myself. Just went there a couple weekends ago for the hunt, which was cool. We live in Concord now, so it s
            Message 5 of 11 , May 6, 2013
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              Been trying to make it to a Windymeads practice myself. Just went there a couple weekends ago for the "hunt," which was cool. We live in Concord now, so it's a bit of a drive - but it's the only "SCA" practice around here now (I think).

              Well, that settles it, I was thinking of trying to arrange some kind of open "arrow making" night at my place, to share ideas and tricks, and inspire those interested in giving it a try, or to help motivate one another kinda-thing. I'll redouble my efforts toward that...

              I'll try to get to Windymeads this coming Sunday, and seek you out.

              ~ A

              --- In SCA-Archery "tomjulessca" wrote:
              >
              > Aelric,
              >
              > Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take you up on guidance through the process - thanks.
              >
              > Tom
            • Carolus
              Tom, In fact I think you have better control with the straight because you can adjust the angle more precisely. I think I can even get better spin with it.
              Message 6 of 11 , May 6, 2013
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                Tom,
                In fact I think you have better control with the straight because you can adjust the angle more precisely.  I think I can even get better spin with it.  The helical is pretty critical in its optimal setting.

                Try making some sets of 4 arrows with different fletching setups to try them out and find what works best for you.  If one set turns out really bad, you can strip and re-fletch it.  I find this gives me an end of 3 with a spare for testing.
                Carolus
                On 5/6/2013 8:17 PM, tomjulessca wrote:
                 

                Carolus,

                If there isn't much difference I do prefer the aesthetic of the straight. Thanks for the input.

                Tom

                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                >
                > You can't get better. I've got 2 of these with straight and left
                > helical clamps. Some say you should match the helical twist to your
                > shooting style; if you shoot right-handed, use right helical, if
                > left-handed, left helical. A few say use the reverse. I don't think it
                > matters. Personally, I prefer the straight for most uses. I can set the
                > twist either direction that way. Some say you get better rifling with
                > helical but I don't rally see a difference. FWIW, I've been shooting
                > nearly 50 years, both SCA and Olympic form including national level
                > competition and I've made a lot of arrows over the years.
                > On 5/5/2013 6:25 PM, tomjulessca wrote:
                > >
                > > Relatively new to archery (now shooting a 45# longbow) and have never
                > > made an arrow. The two dozen arrows I purchased have (had) helical
                > > fletching.
                > >
                > > After reading lots of reviews and other research, I am going to buy a
                > > Bitzenburger jig. However, none of my research described comparison
                > > between using a helical jig & clamp vs a straight jig & left hand clamp.
                > >
                > > Any input regarding relative merit will be appreciated. Thanks.
                > >
                > > Tom
                > >
                > >
                >


              • lekervere
                Don t you know there s a war on? There is no practice in Windy Meads this Sunday, due to the Mists-Cynagua War and Mothers Day activities. That means I won t
                Message 7 of 11 , May 6, 2013
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                  Don't you know there's a war on?
                  There is no practice in Windy Meads this Sunday, due to the Mists-Cynagua War and Mothers' Day activities. That means I won't be there with the loaner equipment. On the other hand, its a public park, so there is no reason you guys can't meet there for some practice.
                  I will hold practice on Sunday 5/19. The following weekend, 5/24 to 5/27 is Cynagua Coronet Tournament, and I will have an archery range open at the fairgrounds in Quincy.

                  Edward le Kervere
                  Minister of the Bow for Cynagua

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Been trying to make it to a Windymeads practice myself. Just went there a couple weekends ago for the "hunt," which was cool. We live in Concord now, so it's a bit of a drive - but it's the only "SCA" practice around here now (I think).
                  >
                  > Well, that settles it, I was thinking of trying to arrange some kind of open "arrow making" night at my place, to share ideas and tricks, and inspire those interested in giving it a try, or to help motivate one another kinda-thing. I'll redouble my efforts toward that...
                  >
                  > I'll try to get to Windymeads this coming Sunday, and seek you out.
                  >
                  > ~ A
                  >
                  > --- In SCA-Archery "tomjulessca" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Aelric,
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take you up on guidance through the process - thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Tom
                  >
                • aelric_southlake
                  Ha ha ha... oh yeah, Right. Well... maybe the weekend after THAT! Thanks Edward!
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 7, 2013
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                    Ha ha ha... oh yeah, Right. Well... maybe the weekend after THAT! Thanks Edward!

                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "lekervere" <edwoodguy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Don't you know there's a war on?
                    > There is no practice in Windy Meads this Sunday, due to the Mists-Cynagua War and Mothers' Day...
                  • tomjulessca
                    Aelric, I am in Dixon but if you hold an arrow making workshop in Concord I will be there if at all possible. tom
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 7, 2013
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                      Aelric,

                      I am in Dixon but if you hold an arrow making workshop in Concord I will be there if at all possible.

                      tom

                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Been trying to make it to a Windymeads practice myself. Just went there a couple weekends ago for the "hunt," which was cool. We live in Concord now, so it's a bit of a drive - but it's the only "SCA" practice around here now (I think).
                      >
                      > Well, that settles it, I was thinking of trying to arrange some kind of open "arrow making" night at my place, to share ideas and tricks, and inspire those interested in giving it a try, or to help motivate one another kinda-thing. I'll redouble my efforts toward that...
                      >
                      > I'll try to get to Windymeads this coming Sunday, and seek you out.
                      >
                      > ~ A
                      >
                      > --- In SCA-Archery "tomjulessca" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Aelric,
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take you up on guidance through the process - thanks.
                      > >
                      > > Tom
                      >
                    • tomjulessca
                      I am off to Eureka this weekend but should be at practice on the 19th. Tom
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 7, 2013
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                        I am off to Eureka this weekend but should be at practice on the 19th.

                        Tom

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "lekervere" <edwoodguy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Don't you know there's a war on?
                        > There is no practice in Windy Meads this Sunday, due to the Mists-Cynagua War and Mothers' Day activities. That means I won't be there with the loaner equipment. On the other hand, its a public park, so there is no reason you guys can't meet there for some practice.
                        > I will hold practice on Sunday 5/19. The following weekend, 5/24 to 5/27 is Cynagua Coronet Tournament, and I will have an archery range open at the fairgrounds in Quincy.
                        >
                        > Edward le Kervere
                        > Minister of the Bow for Cynagua
                        >
                        > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Been trying to make it to a Windymeads practice myself. Just went there a couple weekends ago for the "hunt," which was cool. We live in Concord now, so it's a bit of a drive - but it's the only "SCA" practice around here now (I think).
                        > >
                        > > Well, that settles it, I was thinking of trying to arrange some kind of open "arrow making" night at my place, to share ideas and tricks, and inspire those interested in giving it a try, or to help motivate one another kinda-thing. I'll redouble my efforts toward that...
                        > >
                        > > I'll try to get to Windymeads this coming Sunday, and seek you out.
                        > >
                        > > ~ A
                        > >
                        > > --- In SCA-Archery "tomjulessca" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Aelric,
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for all the good info. As it happens I am in the West and recently started attending the Windymeads practices. Once I get started I may take you up on guidance through the process - thanks.
                        > > >
                        > > > Tom
                        > >
                        >
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