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Horse bow shooters? (grip question)

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  • aelric_southlake
    Looking for some help from any horsebow shooters out there, expert or otherwise - or even people who maybe just own a horsebow and are still learning... I have
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 15, 2013
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      Looking for some help from any horsebow shooters out there, expert or otherwise - or even people who maybe just own a horsebow and are still learning...

      I have an inexpensive "horsebow" that came with a rubber grip, but the grip was NOT attached, with no directions for its proper placememnt. I don't want to use the rubber grip, am making a leather grip to soften the hard edge of the squared-off shape of the handle section of the bow, and realized I don't know where the arrow is SUPPOSED to pass on a horsebow.

      That is: Does the archer grip the bow favoring the lower half, allowing the arrow to pass by the middle of the bow (which I've been doing, probably wrong), or does the archer grip the bow in the middle, putting the arrow pass favoring the upper half of the bow?

      It is a "Korean" style horsebow (probably not even a "true" horsebow, because the upper limbs are working modern recurve, not static), but I think due to the "cupid bow" shape (double recurve? set-back handle? not sure what that's called) any kind of similarly shaped bow's mechanics would be applicable to this question. Turkish, Mongol, whatever.

      If this didn't make sense, and any horsebow people want further explanation of my question, I'd happily try to re-explain. Or contact me off list, or whatever works best.

      Thank you!

      ~ A
    • Bai-Or
      Sounds like your bow has a Scythian shape. Keep in mind, Scythians also all had working limbs but were still shot from horseback. For my Scythian, I keep my
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 15, 2013
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        Sounds like your bow has a Scythian shape.  Keep in mind, Scythians also all had working limbs but were still shot from horseback.  For my Scythian, I keep my hand low on the handle but still fire off the top portion of the grip so the arrow is perfectly centered.


        On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:42 PM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
         

        Looking for some help from any horsebow shooters out there, expert or otherwise - or even people who maybe just own a horsebow and are still learning...

        I have an inexpensive "horsebow" that came with a rubber grip, but the grip was NOT attached, with no directions for its proper placememnt. I don't want to use the rubber grip, am making a leather grip to soften the hard edge of the squared-off shape of the handle section of the bow, and realized I don't know where the arrow is SUPPOSED to pass on a horsebow.

        That is: Does the archer grip the bow favoring the lower half, allowing the arrow to pass by the middle of the bow (which I've been doing, probably wrong), or does the archer grip the bow in the middle, putting the arrow pass favoring the upper half of the bow?

        It is a "Korean" style horsebow (probably not even a "true" horsebow, because the upper limbs are working modern recurve, not static), but I think due to the "cupid bow" shape (double recurve? set-back handle? not sure what that's called) any kind of similarly shaped bow's mechanics would be applicable to this question. Turkish, Mongol, whatever.

        If this didn't make sense, and any horsebow people want further explanation of my question, I'd happily try to re-explain. Or contact me off list, or whatever works best.

        Thank you!

        ~ A




        --
        Eógan
        Archery Captain, Shire of Mynydd Seren
        http://rangersofmynyddseren.wix.com/archery
      • aelric_southlake
        So, the V of your thumb/pointer finger sits slightly south of the middle of the bow, allowing arrow to be in the center? You write ...low on the handle, but
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 15, 2013
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          So, the "V" of your thumb/pointer finger sits slightly south of the middle of the bow, allowing arrow to be in the center?

          You write "...low on the handle, but still FIRE OFF THE TOP PORTION OF THE GRIP..." I don't think you are describing a grip with an arrow shelf. So, are you saying that although you grip low, the arrow is still being fired from the upper part of the leather grip area - and not riding on your knuckle? Or are you saying that although you grip low, and the arrow passes by the top of the grip, the arrow is still centered because the grip is NOT centered (offset low)? Most horsebows I've seen, it looks like the grip is somewhat of a vague affair, but centered in the bow, leaving the archer to "decide," if you will.

          Of course, if the lower limb of your bow was shorter, then firing off the top of the grip would be center of the bow... Hmmm...

          You probably want to strangle me right now :) This would be easier if we could show each other. I think the "but still fire off the top portion" is what confuses me, because on an evenly limbed bow, the "top portion" of the grip would be north of the center of the bow, no?

          Forgive me! I am easily confused!

          --- Bai-Or wrote:

          > ...I keep my hand low on the handle but still fire off the top portion of the grip so the arrow is perfectly centered...
        • The Greys
          My horse bow is a Flagella Dai. I grip the bow in the middle so the arrow pass is slightly above center. In truth, as the bow has no arrow rest I could
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 16, 2013
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            My "horse bow" is a Flagella Dai. I grip the bow in the middle so the arrow pass is slightly above center. In truth, as the bow has no arrow rest I could shoot it up or down, right or left, just depends upon how I grip it. Originally my bow had no wrap on the grip. I have since put a leather grip wrap on it as well as a small patch of leather at the arrow pass. Over time my arrows were scratching the bow handle. Not a big deal, just a cosmetic deal hence the small leather patch.

            I put leather grips on all my bows. My preference for leather is elk hide. It is soft but thick and makes a great cushion grip. The real trick when putting on a leather grip is to do it so that it doesn't twist with use. So when you cut the leather leave a gap in it where you sew it up. As you sew the leather will stretch around the bow handle and make a nice tight, non-twisting grip cover.

            I've also added arrow rests on bows using stacked leather or antler chips. But for my horse bow I prefer shooting off my knuckle.

            cog
          • Laura Barrett
            Greetings,   I got into archery due to my husband Lord Reinmar & now we are training for mounted archery. I have had my horse bow for a little over a year
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 16, 2013
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              Greetings, 
               I got into archery due to my husband Lord Reinmar & now we are training for mounted archery. I have had my horse bow for a little over a year and just got it set up (as in a friend added the knocking point and gave me a guide for where the arrow should be sitting). I am a rank newbie at this and with no arrow rest it has been tricky. Fortunately we have a number of great archers willing to teach.
                My bow has a wrapped section in the middle and just about equal clearance on both ends. I found a spot on the string where the serving was different, and that's where he put the knock point.
              Last night I was given 2 things to work on getting my picture and simultaneously pulling the string & pushing the bow as I bring it up. I am left handed, left eye dominant, and I don't see the arrow tip as I sight down the shaft, I find I am shooting down. I have full deerskin gloves and have several stripes where the fletching is coming in contact at the v where the thumb joins the hand. I find myself wrapping my index finger around the shaft until I am set to shoot. This is all before I try it from the saddle, LOL!  Any advice for better techniques is what I am looking for. 
              YIS, 
              Alienor

              Love Conquers All

              --- On Tue, 4/16/13, The Greys <cogworks@...> wrote:

              From: The Greys <cogworks@...>
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Horse bow shooters? (grip question)
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 8:26 AM

               

              My "horse bow" is a Flagella Dai. I grip the bow in the middle so the arrow pass is slightly above center. In truth, as the bow has no arrow rest I could shoot it up or down, right or left, just depends upon how I grip it. Originally my bow had no wrap on the grip. I have since put a leather grip wrap on it as well as a small patch of leather at the arrow pass. Over time my arrows were scratching the bow handle. Not a big deal, just a cosmetic deal hence the small leather patch.

              I put leather grips on all my bows. My preference for leather is elk hide. It is soft but thick and makes a great cushion grip. The real trick when putting on a leather grip is to do it so that it doesn't twist with use. So when you cut the leather leave a gap in it where you sew it up. As you sew the leather will stretch around the bow handle and make a nice tight, non-twisting grip cover.

              I've also added arrow rests on bows using stacked leather or antler chips. But for my horse bow I prefer shooting off my knuckle.

              cog

            • aelric_southlake
              Thank you all! I too am a lefty, left eye dom, no arrow rest, no glove. I whip, or spiral wrap, all my arrows. For any no-shelf bow I believe you need to
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 16, 2013
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                Thank you all!

                I too am a lefty, left eye dom, no arrow rest, no glove. I "whip," or
                spiral wrap, all my arrows. For any no-shelf bow I believe you need to
                at least whip the leading edge of the fletch where it meets the shaft.
                I may be wrong, others may have experienced no problems with shooting
                bare fletching off their gloves or hands (since I'm "no glove," I don't
                want a quill buried in my skin).

                I cheat; I use heavy weight jeans stitching thread (not linen, hemp, or
                silk), soak it in a little bit of super glue so it never moves, and then
                polyurethane over it with a little brush to give it some amount of
                life-expectancy.

                Would really love to shoot from a horse someday - having trouble just
                being a decent shot on the ground though.

                Thank you for your grip description/approaches. Yeah... I THINK it's
                supposed to be shot a little north of center. I was trying to center
                shoot, but that put my "V," and some of my hand, on the under-slope of
                the grip - a somehwat unatural position for the hand, based on the shape
                of the bow. I dunno... Definitely going to put both a leather grip,
                and a bit of cordovan leather where the the arrow passes. I don't have
                an arrow pass on my longbow - doesn't seem right. I just add a touch of
                poly when it looks like it's getting worn, and really, it SHOULD get a
                bit worn there. But with the horsebow, I think it would be right, and
                aesthetically pleasing too.

                Thanks COG for your method description. I also cheat when I do leather
                grips too! I put Barge cement on them! But I do leave a gap so they
                cinch up nice. Problem is, my stitching looks goofy (I call it
                "rustic"), but I get a bit better each time. The cool thing about Barge
                is that if you EPICALLY fail, you can pull it back off without too much
                cursing...

                I saw on some longbow site where they FOLD OVER the top and bottom edges
                of their leather grips, prior to stitching, to give a nice finished
                edge. I'm gonna try that this time.

                Good luck with with horseback shooting Alienor! Jealous! I guess that's
                the POINT of these bows though... maybe oughtta redouble efforts to try
                that sometime...

                ~ A


                --- Laura wrote: Greetings, I got into archery due to my husband Lord
                Reinmar & now we are training for mounted archery...

                --- The Greys wrote: I grip the bow in the middle so the arrow pass is
                slightly above center...
              • Bai-Or
                Yeah, I meant to say that I grip in the center with arrow pass just slightly above center. My bow is so curvy, I don t think there is really any other way to
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 16, 2013
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                  Yeah, I meant to say that I grip in the center with arrow pass just slightly above center.  My bow is so curvy, I don't think there is really any other way to do it.  I have shot from horseback on rare occasion and can't wait to get into it seriously.

                  You should also give thumb draw a try.  Not enough of us thumb ringers out there. ;)


                  On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:28 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
                   


                  Thank you all!

                  I too am a lefty, left eye dom, no arrow rest, no glove. I "whip," or
                  spiral wrap, all my arrows. For any no-shelf bow I believe you need to
                  at least whip the leading edge of the fletch where it meets the shaft.
                  I may be wrong, others may have experienced no problems with shooting
                  bare fletching off their gloves or hands (since I'm "no glove," I don't
                  want a quill buried in my skin).

                  I cheat; I use heavy weight jeans stitching thread (not linen, hemp, or
                  silk), soak it in a little bit of super glue so it never moves, and then
                  polyurethane over it with a little brush to give it some amount of
                  life-expectancy.

                  Would really love to shoot from a horse someday - having trouble just
                  being a decent shot on the ground though.

                  Thank you for your grip description/approaches. Yeah... I THINK it's
                  supposed to be shot a little north of center. I was trying to center
                  shoot, but that put my "V," and some of my hand, on the under-slope of
                  the grip - a somehwat unatural position for the hand, based on the shape
                  of the bow. I dunno... Definitely going to put both a leather grip,
                  and a bit of cordovan leather where the the arrow passes. I don't have
                  an arrow pass on my longbow - doesn't seem right. I just add a touch of
                  poly when it looks like it's getting worn, and really, it SHOULD get a
                  bit worn there. But with the horsebow, I think it would be right, and
                  aesthetically pleasing too.

                  Thanks COG for your method description. I also cheat when I do leather
                  grips too! I put Barge cement on them! But I do leave a gap so they
                  cinch up nice. Problem is, my stitching looks goofy (I call it
                  "rustic"), but I get a bit better each time. The cool thing about Barge
                  is that if you EPICALLY fail, you can pull it back off without too much
                  cursing...

                  I saw on some longbow site where they FOLD OVER the top and bottom edges
                  of their leather grips, prior to stitching, to give a nice finished
                  edge. I'm gonna try that this time.

                  Good luck with with horseback shooting Alienor! Jealous! I guess that's
                  the POINT of these bows though... maybe oughtta redouble efforts to try
                  that sometime...

                  ~ A

                  --- Laura wrote: Greetings, I got into archery due to my husband Lord
                  Reinmar & now we are training for mounted archery...

                  --- The Greys wrote: I grip the bow in the middle so the arrow pass is
                  slightly above center...




                  --
                  Eógan
                  Archery Captain, Shire of Mynydd Seren
                  http://rangersofmynyddseren.wix.com/archery
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