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Re: [SCA-Archery] What to do when you are always overspined?

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  • Guy Taylor
    Those arrows do sound overspined for your bow. Try the 100gr tips on a couple arrows and see if that helps. The heavier tip will lower the dynamic spine. It
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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      Those arrows do sound overspined for your bow.
      Try the 100gr tips on a couple arrows and see if that helps. The
      heavier tip will lower the dynamic spine. It may even be worth it to
      give the 125gr tips a try.
      For lighter spine shafts try Hildebrand in Washington state. Until
      recently they were making some beautiful 9/32" Sitka spruce shafts
      that worked great for lower weight bows. Now they have 5/16" shafts
      that are barrel tapered to 9/32". They are available down to 25/30#
      spine. If you call them be sure to ask about those 9/32" shafts,
      Roxane may have some available but not listed on their website.
      http://www.hildebrandarrowshafts.com/products.htm

      Guy

      On 3/4/13, Jim Pickette <pickette@...> wrote:
      > It might also be sight picture or stance.
      >
      > JoO
      >
      > ---- Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
      >> Hello all,
      >>
      >> I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
      >> question.
      >>
      >> From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow
      >> at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In order to
      >> hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards maybe 2-3
      >> feet
      >> to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are
      >> very overspined. I shoot left handed.
      >>
      >> I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
      >> loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
      >> an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
      >> shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the
      >> lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.
      >> I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the
      >> suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is
      >> what
      >> I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
      >>
      >> I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.
      >> I
      >> can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim at a
      >> point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of
      >> years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point
      >> weights on the market)?
      >>
      >> Thank you for the assistance,
      >> -Cate.
      >
      >


      --
      The Greenman Archery <http://www.greenmanarchery.com/index.html> Website
      Fine custom wood arrows for traditional archers.
    • Bill Tait
      Have you also checked your centershot? When viewed from behind, the point of an arrow on the string should appear to be sitting slightly to the right of the
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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        Have you also checked your centershot? When viewed from behind, the point of an arrow on the string should appear to be sitting slightly to the right of the string:

        Nock arrow to string. View bow from behind, line string up with the middle of the limbs / riser. The point should be 1/2 - 1 tip diameter "outside" of centered". If it is more than that, then not only will you be hitting far to the right, but that offset will change with the distance you're shooting.

        You can shim your arrow rest out with thicker double-sided tape as needed.

        this is only the "static centershot". For true centershot setting, a "walkback test" is required.


        That said, you can run heavier points. That will help soften the spine of your arrows.

        As mentioned above, your sight picturemay be a factor. Where do you line your string up with when sighting?

        William Arwemakere

        On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Jim Pickette <pickette@...> wrote:
         

        It might also be sight picture or stance.

        JoO



        ---- Catherine Townson cate.townson@...> wrote:
        > Hello all,
        >
        > I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
        > question.
        >
        > From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow
        > at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In order to
        > hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet
        > to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are
        > very overspined. I shoot left handed.
        >
        > I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
        > loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
        > an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
        > shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the
        > lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.
        > I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the
        > suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what
        > I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
        >
        > I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows. I
        > can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim at a
        > point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of
        > years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point
        > weights on the market)?
        >
        > Thank you for the assistance,
        > -Cate.


      • Frank Schalles
        Cate, Could you tell us a little more about your bow. First, is this a right hand or left hand bow model? I know you are shooting left handed. Is this a one
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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          Cate,

          Could you tell us a little more about your bow.
          First, is this a right hand or left hand bow model? I know you are shooting left handed.
          Is this a one piece bow flat bow, or a take down?
          Or even a long bow?

          Shooting 2-3 feet left to hit the target, I am thinking it's not the spine of the arrows.
          Have someone else, both right and left handed archers shoot your bow with your arrows,
          preferably a Marshal or other more experienced archer.

          Inspect the bow to see if the bow has warped limbs,
          make sure the string has the correct brace height.

          Obtaining this information should point to either a bow issue or an
          archer stance/form issue.

          I hope this helped.

          Lord Francois de Lions,
          Keeper of the Royal Rounds,
          Kingdom of Ansteorra

          On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:


          Hello all,

          I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

          From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

          I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

          I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

          Thank you for the assistance,
          -Cate.





        • Sean Powell
          Hello Cate, I experienced a similar problem when I was learning to shoot. As a right handed shooter I needed to target hard to the right of the target as well
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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            Hello Cate,

            I experienced a similar problem when I was learning to shoot. As a right handed shooter I needed to target hard to the right of the target as well as adjust elevation for range. Turns out it wasn't my equipment, it was my stance. I was holding my head upright and while my knock point was close to below my eye it wasn't exactly below my eye. Since my eye was left of the arrow it made a well aimed arrow tip look far right of the target.

            My solution was a crouch or golfers lean. No I make certain that my bow is at a consistent angle to my spine and then lean forward until not only is the tip below the center of the target but that the knock-point is as well and the arrow is in a vertical line. This helped me immensely.

            Before changing your equipment I'd recommend borrowing a similar weight bow (harder as you are lefty) from someone with properly spined arrows to see if the problem persists. If so then it's not the equipment, it's technique. If their bow doesn't have the same problem then try their arrows in your bow and vice versa. If the problem corrects itself with their ammo and your bow then it's the ammo you need to fix. If your ammo works with their bow then you might want to experiment with ammo spinned heavier or lighter until you get the right combo and then buy that spine weight... but my money is on technique.

            Sean


            On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
             

            Hello all,


            I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

            From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

            I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

            I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

            Thank you for the assistance,
            -Cate.



          • Bill Tait
            Substituting bad form to fix a non-issue like aiming off is never a good idea. Misaligning your body when it s under load will lead to phyical problems in the
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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              Substituting bad form to fix a non-issue like aiming off is never a good idea. Misaligning your body when it's under load will lead to phyical problems in the future.

              I have hip issues now from having my torso shifted rearward for too many years. I also dislocated a rib (under my bowside shoulder from bad bow arm alignment.

              William

              On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:
               

              Hello Cate,

              I experienced a similar problem when I was learning to shoot. As a right handed shooter I needed to target hard to the right of the target as well as adjust elevation for range. Turns out it wasn't my equipment, it was my stance. I was holding my head upright and while my knock point was close to below my eye it wasn't exactly below my eye. Since my eye was left of the arrow it made a well aimed arrow tip look far right of the target.

              My solution was a crouch or golfers lean. No I make certain that my bow is at a consistent angle to my spine and then lean forward until not only is the tip below the center of the target but that the knock-point is as well and the arrow is in a vertical line. This helped me immensely.

              Before changing your equipment I'd recommend borrowing a similar weight bow (harder as you are lefty) from someone with properly spined arrows to see if the problem persists. If so then it's not the equipment, it's technique. If their bow doesn't have the same problem then try their arrows in your bow and vice versa. If the problem corrects itself with their ammo and your bow then it's the ammo you need to fix. If your ammo works with their bow then you might want to experiment with ammo spinned heavier or lighter until you get the right combo and then buy that spine weight... but my money is on technique.

              Sean


              On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
               

              Hello all,


              I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

              From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

              I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

              I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

              Thank you for the assistance,
              -Cate.




            • Catherine Townson
              William Arwemakere: I will check my centreshot. To be honest I can t think of where I am lining up my string. I will keep it in mind. It s very possible my
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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                William Arwemakere: I will check my centreshot.  To be honest I can't think of where I am lining up my string.  I will keep it in mind.  It's very possible my failure is in technique - I am a beginner.

                 

                Lord Robert Runewald: Thank you for the numbers.  This will give me a good guide to work from.  I'll see what increasing my point weight does.

                 

                Lord Francois de Lions: It's your basic starter Samick sage takedown.  Left handed.  It's almost new and appears to be in good shape, but I'll give it a thorough go over.  I'll try to get an experienced archer to test it as soon as I can.

                 

                I learn more from you guys in five minutes here than I do anywhere else.  Thank you all for answering my questions and giving me a number of things I can check. I really, really appreciate the help.

                 

                -Cate.


                On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Frank Schalles <francisschalles@...> wrote:


                Cate,

                Could you tell us a little more about your bow.
                First, is this a right hand or left hand bow model? I know you are shooting left handed.
                Is this a one piece bow flat bow, or a take down?
                Or even a long bow?

                Shooting 2-3 feet left to hit the target, I am thinking it's not the spine of the arrows.
                Have someone else, both right and left handed archers shoot your bow with your arrows,
                preferably a Marshal or other more experienced archer.

                Inspect the bow to see if the bow has warped limbs,
                make sure the string has the correct brace height.

                Obtaining this information should point to either a bow issue or an
                archer stance/form issue.

                I hope this helped.

                Lord Francois de Lions,
                Keeper of the Royal Rounds,
                Kingdom of Ansteorra

                On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:


                Hello all,

                I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

                From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

                I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

                I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

                Thank you for the assistance,
                -Cate.








              • lekervere
                Trying other bows and other arrows on your bow is a good way to see if you have arrow spine issues. Archers ask about this at practice all the time. The surest
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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                  Trying other bows and other arrows on your bow is a good way to see if you have arrow spine issues. Archers ask about this at practice all the time. The surest way I know to check arrow spine is to stand behind the archer and watch to see that the arrow is flying in the direction its pointing when its anchored and ready to shoot. If the arrow goes straight where it was pointing, its probably not a spine issue. When it is a spine issue, it is very obvious. See if you can get a friend to watch you shoot.

                  Hildebrand Archery recently came out with shafts spined for 10-15#.

                  Edward

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
                  > question.
                  >
                  > From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow
                  > at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In order to
                  > hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet
                  > to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are
                  > very overspined. I shoot left handed.
                  >
                  > I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
                  > loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
                  > an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
                  > shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the
                  > lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.
                  > I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the
                  > suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what
                  > I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
                  >
                  > I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows. I
                  > can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim at a
                  > point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of
                  > years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point
                  > weights on the market)?
                  >
                  > Thank you for the assistance,
                  > -Cate.
                  >
                • Harry Billings
                  try longer arrows and or heaver points first one then add the other if the first does not help also have some one check your form. plachoya Ansteorra Hello
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
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                    try longer arrows and or heaver points first one then add the other if the first does not help also have some one check your form.

                    plachoya
                    Ansteorra

                     


                     
                    Hello all,

                    I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

                    From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

                    I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

                    I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

                    Thank you for the assistance,
                    -Cate.



                  • Fritz
                    When Catherine Townson put fingers to keys it was 3/4/13 1:51 PM... Cate, Heavier heads will help pull the arrow around the bow. Longer shafts will help too.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                      When Catherine Townson put fingers to keys it was 3/4/13 1:51 PM...
                      Cate,

                      Heavier heads will help 'pull' the arrow around the bow.

                      Longer shafts will help too.

                      Raising your brace height (your draw is a little short so the bow will
                      likely take it) will help.

                      Are you right-eyed? or left-eyed?

                      Where are you anchoring before release?

                      - Fritz


                      > Hello all,
                      >
                      > I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
                      > question.
                      >
                      > From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the
                      > arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In
                      > order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards
                      > maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it
                      > appears my arrows are very overspined. I shoot left handed.
                      >
                      > I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
                      > loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
                      > an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
                      > shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was
                      > the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts
                      > on the way. I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs
                      > to the suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points,
                      > which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
                      >
                      > I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.
                      > I can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim
                      > at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple
                      > of years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft
                      > point weights on the market)?
                      >
                      > Thank you for the assistance,
                      > -Cate.


                      --
                      Fritz
                      Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
                    • Carl Nelson
                      Catherine; Those are all good questions & good answers however with out seeing you shoot and getting a good inspection of you archery tackle/equipment I can t
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                        Catherine;

                               Those are all good questions & good answers however with out seeing you shoot and getting a good inspection of you archery tackle/equipment I can't really give you any definitive answers.


                        On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Fritz <carl.west@...> wrote:
                         

                        When Catherine Townson put fingers to keys it was 3/4/13 1:51 PM...
                        Cate,

                        Heavier heads will help 'pull' the arrow around the bow.

                        Longer shafts will help too.

                        Raising your brace height (your draw is a little short so the bow will
                        likely take it) will help.

                        Are you right-eyed? or left-eyed?

                        Where are you anchoring before release?

                        - Fritz



                        > Hello all,
                        >
                        > I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
                        > question.
                        >
                        > From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the
                        > arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In
                        > order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards
                        > maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it
                        > appears my arrows are very overspined. I shoot left handed.
                        >
                        > I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
                        > loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
                        > an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
                        > shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was
                        > the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts
                        > on the way. I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs
                        > to the suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points,
                        > which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
                        >
                        > I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.
                        > I can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim
                        > at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple
                        > of years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft
                        > point weights on the market)?
                        >
                        > Thank you for the assistance,
                        > -Cate.

                        --
                        Fritz
                        Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.




                        --
                        Carl Nelson
                        626-297-6513
                      • The Greys
                        Cate, You have received some very good advice here about your aiming issue. However, it strikes me that the main issue is your aiming technique. Being an
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                          Cate,
                          You have received some very good advice here about your aiming issue. However, it strikes me that the main issue is your aiming technique. Being an archer geek (Yeah, like I'm the ONLY one on this list!?!) I have recruve, reflex/deflex, english longbows and a horse bow I shoot. Only the recurves are close to center shot bows. Having 14 bows, I also have at least 14 sets of arrows matched to the bows. However, and being lazy, I often shoot seriously over spined arrows out of some of the bows. But I still hit what I aim at.

                          So here is a trick to try before you make up a new set of arrows, I use this in my beginning archery classes. With your bow hand index finger point at the target where you want to hit. With your draw hand, put it at your anchor point and lift your thumb. The top of your thumb and your index finger should be lined up. If not, you are not (or would not if actually holding a bow with an arrow drawn) be sighting down the arrow shaft. Where you point the tip is irrelevant if your eye is not aligned with the back of the shaft. You will find, as was mentioned elsewhere on this list, that the raised thumb of your draw hand does not lineup under your eye if your head is held vertically. A slight tilt towards your draw hand puts your eye just above your thumb and in line of sight.

                          Of course stance and draw form also are major contributors. Start with both feet perpendicular to a line to the target, about shoulder width apart. When you draw, your body should be in alignment such that your bow arm, shoulders, through your draw arm to the elbow are all in line both vertically and horizontally. This is a good basic starting position. As you develop your shot you can experiment with open and closed stances.

                          I see lots of beginning archers that do not have their arms in alignment as mentioned above. The final thing many beginning and experienced archers do is have the draw hand fly away from the face upon release. If your draw hand moves at all it should continue moving backwards so that it finishes by touching your rear shoulder. It is much like drawing through your anchor point, release just as you touch your anchor point. Personally my draw hand stays at my anchor point in what is called the dead release. When you release the string you don't actually release the string. Instead you simply stop holding it. The weight of your bow will pull the string off of your fingers.

                          Good luck and practice, practice, practice. That's really how you become a better archer. But remember, productive practice is not just shooting lots of arrows or shooting Royal Rounds all afternoon. Good practice takes one aspect of the draw, anchor, release of a shot and works on just one item. After you feel you've got that worked out, move to the next item. Of course in between just shooting to have fun allows your body to "remember" some of what it learned in your structured practices. Good instinctive shooters depend upon a lot of muscle memory, how a good shot feels. But that developed feel only comes from good structured practice.

                          Good luck and welcome to the BEST group of folks in the SCA!
                          kog



                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello all,
                          >
                          > I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
                          > question.
                          >
                          > From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow
                          > at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In order to
                          > hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet
                          > to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are
                          > very overspined. I shoot left handed.
                          >
                          > I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
                          > loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
                          > an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
                          > shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the
                          > lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.
                          > I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the
                          > suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what
                          > I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
                          >
                          > I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows. I
                          > can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim at a
                          > point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of
                          > years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point
                          > weights on the market)?
                          >
                          > Thank you for the assistance,
                          > -Cate.
                          >
                        • Catherine Townson
                          Thank you - this is incredibly helpful. I will work on this next time I can get to a range. I agree, this is a wonderful group of people. Thank you all.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                            Thank you - this is incredibly helpful. I will work on this next time
                            I can get to a range.

                            I agree, this is a wonderful group of people. Thank you all.

                            -Cate.

                            On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 1:06 PM, The Greys <cogworks@...> wrote:
                            > Cate,
                            > You have received some very good advice here about your aiming issue. However, it strikes me that the main issue is your aiming technique. Being an archer geek (Yeah, like I'm the ONLY one on this list!?!) I have recruve, reflex/deflex, english longbows and a horse bow I shoot. Only the recurves are close to center shot bows. Having 14 bows, I also have at least 14 sets of arrows matched to the bows. However, and being lazy, I often shoot seriously over spined arrows out of some of the bows. But I still hit what I aim at.
                            >
                            > So here is a trick to try before you make up a new set of arrows, I use this in my beginning archery classes. With your bow hand index finger point at the target where you want to hit. With your draw hand, put it at your anchor point and lift your thumb. The top of your thumb and your index finger should be lined up. If not, you are not (or would not if actually holding a bow with an arrow drawn) be sighting down the arrow shaft. Where you point the tip is irrelevant if your eye is not aligned with the back of the shaft. You will find, as was mentioned elsewhere on this list, that the raised thumb of your draw hand does not lineup under your eye if your head is held vertically. A slight tilt towards your draw hand puts your eye just above your thumb and in line of sight.
                            >
                            > Of course stance and draw form also are major contributors. Start with both feet perpendicular to a line to the target, about shoulder width apart. When you draw, your body should be in alignment such that your bow arm, shoulders, through your draw arm to the elbow are all in line both vertically and horizontally. This is a good basic starting position. As you develop your shot you can experiment with open and closed stances.
                            >
                            > I see lots of beginning archers that do not have their arms in alignment as mentioned above. The final thing many beginning and experienced archers do is have the draw hand fly away from the face upon release. If your draw hand moves at all it should continue moving backwards so that it finishes by touching your rear shoulder. It is much like drawing through your anchor point, release just as you touch your anchor point. Personally my draw hand stays at my anchor point in what is called the dead release. When you release the string you don't actually release the string. Instead you simply stop holding it. The weight of your bow will pull the string off of your fingers.
                            >
                            > Good luck and practice, practice, practice. That's really how you become a better archer. But remember, productive practice is not just shooting lots of arrows or shooting Royal Rounds all afternoon. Good practice takes one aspect of the draw, anchor, release of a shot and works on just one item. After you feel you've got that worked out, move to the next item. Of course in between just shooting to have fun allows your body to "remember" some of what it learned in your structured practices. Good instinctive shooters depend upon a lot of muscle memory, how a good shot feels. But that developed feel only comes from good structured practice.
                            >
                            > Good luck and welcome to the BEST group of folks in the SCA!
                            > kog
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Catherine Townson <cate.townson@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Hello all,
                            >>
                            >> I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my
                            >> question.
                            >>
                            >> From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow
                            >> at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range. In order to
                            >> hit the target, I have to aim far to the left. At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet
                            >> to the left of the target. Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are
                            >> very overspined. I shoot left handed.
                            >>
                            >> I shoot a 25# recurve bow. My draw length is 26". At approximately 2#
                            >> loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#. I use
                            >> an approximately 28" shaft length. I have been unable to find wood
                            >> shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the
                            >> lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.
                            >> I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the
                            >> suggested spine weight). I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what
                            >> I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.
                            >>
                            >> I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows. I
                            >> can't be the only one with this problem. Do I just consistently aim at a
                            >> point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of
                            >> years? Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point
                            >> weights on the market)?
                            >>
                            >> Thank you for the assistance,
                            >> -Cate.
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > --
                            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Bill Tait
                            Actually, I d like to touch on the active release here: Snip ... This isn t quite right, but it does describe what I see when sca archers are trying to do an
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                              Actually, I'd like to touch on the active release here:

                              Snip

                               The final thing many beginning and experienced archers do is have the draw hand fly away from the face upon release. If your draw hand moves at all it should continue moving backwards so that it finishes by touching your rear shoulder. It is much like drawing through your anchor point, release just as you touch your anchor point. 


                              This isn't quite right, but it does describe what I see when sca archers are trying to do an active release.

                              What should happen is that you come into your anchor, and the string actually does stop. This is where your final aiming step takes place. What does not stop is the movement of the string side shoulder blade. Continue to pull the shoulder blade back, transferring the load rearward and downward. At this point we move into "expansion", often accompanied by a slow release of breath. The arrow gets drawn another 1-2 mm, and is released. The expansion phase is used by olympic archers to draw the arrow through the clicker.

                              Your description of the release is a good one. Don't "let go", but rather "stop holding". By loading into the lower / mid trapezius, the resultant movement of the string hand will be rearward. If it comes away from the face _aterally_, it is indicative of drawing using arm muscles, and upper traps / deltoids (one of the hardest habits I'm trying to break). The string hand does not have to come to rest at any specific location, describing such will have people actively trying to hit a spot with their string hand, employing more muscles to make that happen, rather than simply letting the shot "open you up". My hand often comes to rest at the back of my head. :)

                              A fantastic example of a release is Natalia Valeeva: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aln-GSMmRaU

                              Watch any of the youtube footage of the archery world cups, or world championships for examples of active release. 

                              William Arwemakere


                            • The Greys
                              William, Good points. My comments about pulling through the anchor point was the Pappa Bear method of draw release. Wherein he came to aim point in a half
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                William,
                                Good points. My comments about pulling through the anchor point was the Pappa Bear method of draw release. Wherein he came to aim point in a half draw, where he would hesitate, then continued on backwards until his draw hand middle finger touched his upper canine tooth, at which point he released while continuing his draw hand/arm movement backward through the anchor point. It has the appearance to me of a snap shot. I've tried this technique but personally do much better with the static or dead release.

                                On a different subject, I believe you are the William oft seen lurking about Gulf Wars :-). Will we have that pleasure once again next week?

                                kog

                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Actually, I'd like to touch on the active release here:
                                >
                                > Snip
                                >
                                > > The final thing many beginning and experienced archers do is have the
                                > > draw hand fly away from the face upon release. If your draw hand moves at
                                > > all it should continue moving backwards so that it finishes by touching
                                > > your rear shoulder. It is much like drawing through your anchor point,
                                > > release just as you touch your anchor point.
                                > >
                                >
                                > This isn't quite right, but it does describe what I see when sca archers
                                > are trying to do an active release.
                                >
                                > What should happen is that you come into your anchor, and the string
                                > actually does stop. This is where your final aiming step takes place. What
                                > does not stop is the movement of the string side shoulder blade. Continue
                                > to pull the shoulder blade back, transferring the load rearward and
                                > downward. At this point we move into "expansion", often accompanied by a
                                > slow release of breath. The arrow gets drawn another 1-2 mm, and is
                                > released. The expansion phase is used by olympic archers to draw the arrow
                                > through the clicker.
                                >
                                > Your description of the release is a good one. Don't "let go", but rather
                                > "stop holding". By loading into the lower / mid trapezius, the resultant
                                > movement of the string hand will be rearward. If it comes away from the
                                > face _aterally_, it is indicative of drawing using arm muscles, and upper
                                > traps / deltoids (one of the hardest habits I'm trying to break). The
                                > string hand does not have to come to rest at any specific location,
                                > describing such will have people actively trying to hit a spot with their
                                > string hand, employing more muscles to make that happen, rather than simply
                                > letting the shot "open you up". My hand often comes to rest at the back of
                                > my head. :)
                                >
                                > A fantastic example of a release is Natalia Valeeva:
                                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aln-GSMmRaU
                                >
                                > Watch any of the youtube footage of the archery world cups, or world
                                > championships for examples of active release.
                                >
                                > William Arwemakere
                                >
                              • Bill Tait
                                Yes, that s me, and sadly no, I can t afford the trip again this year. I m aiming for Gator Cup in Florida in May (no pun intended). Aiming at half draw, then
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                  Yes, that's me, and sadly no, I can't afford the trip again this year. I'm aiming for Gator Cup in Florida in May (no pun intended).

                                  Aiming at half draw, then trusting that you're still on target through more draw will work reasonably well for the shorter distances we generally shoot in the SCA. I'm trying to hit a 12.2 cm 10ring at 90 meters, For me to be in the gold @ 90, I'm within .055" of center on release (assuming, of course, I don't botch the release)

                                  William

                                  On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, The Greys <cogworks@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  William,
                                  Good points. My comments about pulling through the anchor point was the Pappa Bear method of draw release. Wherein he came to aim point in a half draw, where he would hesitate, then continued on backwards until his draw hand middle finger touched his upper canine tooth, at which point he released while continuing his draw hand/arm movement backward through the anchor point. It has the appearance to me of a snap shot. I've tried this technique but personally do much better with the static or dead release.

                                  On a different subject, I believe you are the William oft seen lurking about Gulf Wars :-). Will we have that pleasure once again next week?

                                  kog



                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Bill Tait wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Actually, I'd like to touch on the active release here:
                                  >
                                  > Snip
                                  >
                                  > > The final thing many beginning and experienced archers do is have the
                                  > > draw hand fly away from the face upon release. If your draw hand moves at
                                  > > all it should continue moving backwards so that it finishes by touching
                                  > > your rear shoulder. It is much like drawing through your anchor point,
                                  > > release just as you touch your anchor point.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > This isn't quite right, but it does describe what I see when sca archers
                                  > are trying to do an active release.
                                  >
                                  > What should happen is that you come into your anchor, and the string
                                  > actually does stop. This is where your final aiming step takes place. What
                                  > does not stop is the movement of the string side shoulder blade. Continue
                                  > to pull the shoulder blade back, transferring the load rearward and
                                  > downward. At this point we move into "expansion", often accompanied by a
                                  > slow release of breath. The arrow gets drawn another 1-2 mm, and is
                                  > released. The expansion phase is used by olympic archers to draw the arrow
                                  > through the clicker.
                                  >
                                  > Your description of the release is a good one. Don't "let go", but rather
                                  > "stop holding". By loading into the lower / mid trapezius, the resultant
                                  > movement of the string hand will be rearward. If it comes away from the
                                  > face _aterally_, it is indicative of drawing using arm muscles, and upper
                                  > traps / deltoids (one of the hardest habits I'm trying to break). The
                                  > string hand does not have to come to rest at any specific location,
                                  > describing such will have people actively trying to hit a spot with their
                                  > string hand, employing more muscles to make that happen, rather than simply
                                  > letting the shot "open you up". My hand often comes to rest at the back of
                                  > my head. :)
                                  >
                                  > A fantastic example of a release is Natalia Valeeva:
                                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aln-GSMmRaU
                                  >
                                  > Watch any of the youtube footage of the archery world cups, or world
                                  > championships for examples of active release.
                                  >
                                  > William Arwemakere
                                  >


                                • lynn.palmieri
                                  Hello, I ve also had issues with having to aim far to the right (right handed in my case). I fell into the bad habit of gripping the bow too hard and also
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 5, 2013
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                                    Hello,

                                    I’ve also had issues with having to aim far to the right (right handed in my case).  I fell into the bad habit of gripping the bow too hard and also lifting my left shoulder.  Shifting back to the pinch grip (holding bow between thumb and first finger for support, one finger curled around to hold bow in place at release only), and consciously making sure my shoulders are dropped brought my targeting back into alignment.  If you have a master or advanced bowman in your vicinity, get them to watch your stance and give you their feedback.  Our group is more than willing to help each other with form when we find we have consistent issues with our shooting.

                                    Hope you find your answer.

                                    Elynor.

                                     

                                    From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Townson
                                    Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 10:51 AM
                                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [SCA-Archery] What to do when you are always overspined?

                                     

                                     

                                    Hello all,

                                     

                                    I tried looking through the history, but didn't see an answer to my question.

                                     

                                    From everything I've read, one should be able to aim the tip of the arrow at the centre of the target, adjusting vertically for range.  In order to hit the target, I have to aim far to the left.  At 20 yards maybe 2-3 feet to the left of the target.  Googling my problem, it appears my arrows are very overspined.  I shoot left handed.

                                     

                                    I shoot a 25# recurve bow.  My draw length is 26".  At approximately 2# loss per inch, it means my draw weight is effectively 21#.  I use an approximately 28" shaft length.  I have been unable to find wood shafts lower than a 30-35# spine, mine are currently 35-40# (this was the lowest available at the time) but I have some 30-35# shafts on the way.  I'm using a fast flight string (which I believe adds 5 lbs to the suggested spine weight).  I am currently using 70 gr. points, which is what I was told to use, but I have 100 and 125 gr points on hand.  

                                     

                                    I'd like to get a better idea of what to do before making my new arrows.   I can't be the only one with this problem.  Do I just consistently aim at a point to the left and hope to upgrade to a heavier bow in a couple of years?  Can I weight my points further (I see there are wood shaft point weights on the market)?

                                     

                                    Thank you for the assistance,

                                    -Cate.

                                     

                                     

                                  • William Davis
                                    I too had a problem with arrow spine when I first started shooting.  I had 35 lb bow, so figured I should be using 35 lb arrows.  I actually bought 40-45 and
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                      I too had a problem with arrow spine when I first started shooting.  I had 35 lb bow, so figured I should be using 35 lb arrows.  I actually bought 40-45 and they worked okay, but I too had to aim at the outside edge of the black ring, to achieve a center hit.  My next set of arrows, turned out to be poorly spined, ranging from 33 lb up to 50 lb, so they were all over the target.  I decided to change arrow suppliers and in doing so, discovered the following chart, which shows that I should be using arrows spined at around 50 lbs, so I ordered 50-55s.  My aim point is now dead center.  

                                      http://www.allwoodarrows.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831

                                      If the link does not work, just go to Allwoodarrows.com, and click the spine chart link at bottom of the header banner.

                                      Gwilym of Fflint


                                    • talonoak
                                      I have been shooting for a number of years, but I have never been a consistent archer (my arrows are always all over the place). I was always under the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                        I have been shooting for a number of years, but I have never been a consistent archer (my arrows are always all over the place). I was always under the impression that the spine of your arrow should be within 2 to 3 pounds of you bow weight. I looked at the chart, but I need someone who knows how to read it to explain to me how to determine what spine weight arrow I should be using.

                                        Eoin


                                        From: "William Davis" <willied0296@...>
                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:46:01 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What to do when you are always overspined?

                                         

                                        I too had a problem with arrow spine when I first started shooting.  I had 35 lb bow, so figured I should be using 35 lb arrows.  I actually bought 40-45 and they worked okay, but I too had to aim at the outside edge of the black ring, to achieve a center hit.  My next set of arrows, turned out to be poorly spined, ranging from 33 lb up to 50 lb, so they were all over the target.  I decided to change arrow suppliers and in doing so, discovered the following chart, which shows that I should be using arrows spined at around 50 lbs, so I ordered 50-55s.  My aim point is now dead center.  

                                        http://www.allwoodarrows.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831

                                        If the link does not work, just go to Allwoodarrows.com, and click the spine chart link at bottom of the header banner.

                                        Gwilym of Fflint


                                      • William Davis
                                        Simple enough. Step 1)  Which kind of bow are you using?  Shelved Recurve or Shelved Longbow, that are center shot, ie the string lines up with the inner
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 6, 2013
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                                          Simple enough.

                                          Step 1)  Which kind of bow are you using?  Shelved Recurve or Shelved Longbow, that are center shot, ie the string lines up with the inner edge of the shelf (more or less), you use the columns on the left of the table.  If you are using an unshelved longbow, or other bow where the edge of the bow and the bowstring do NOT align, then you use the columns on the right side of the table.

                                          Step 2)  What is your point weight?  Most people use either the 100 or 125 grain points, some may have lighter, in which case you will have to extrapolate from this chart, and some use heavier.  Go down under the Point Grain Weight column until you come to the box with the draw weight of your bow.

                                          Step 3)  Now move to the right (or left, as the case may be) until you reach a box under your arrow length.  That box will tell you the spine weight you want for your arrows.

                                          Step 4)  Buy arrows.

                                          Step 5)  Practice, practice, practice, and practice some more.  If you are a beginner, or novice, you may want to even consider lessons.

                                          One thing I have done, which I find helps.  I made a simple chart with bunch of roundel targets on it (I got 20 on a standard 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper).  I numbered the boxes 1 - 20. I then took a sharpie and numbered my arrows, 1 - 18 (1 don't have 20 of the same).  I then went to the range, and using the same group of 6 arrows, I shot an end. Using the box number that corresponds to the arrow I shot, I mark where each arrow hit.  I did that 12 or 15 ends, with the same arrows.  When finished I have a record of where each arrow went.  I can now see a number of things.  Which arrows fly truest.  It shows grouping.  Some may fly a bit left, or right, or up, or down.  Do the same thing with all your arrows.  You can now sort by how they fly.  If you have several that go a little left, put them together, and use them together, that way you know, more or less, where they are going to go, and you can compensate with your aim point.  Likewise with any other direction.  
                                          If however, all the arrows are scattered all over the target, then you are probably doing something wrong with your mechanics, and should seek assistance identifying the problem.  Then revert to step 5 above.

                                          Hope that helps

                                          Gwilym


                                          --- On Wed, 3/6/13, stalek@... <stalek@...> wrote:

                                          From: stalek@... <stalek@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What to do when you are always overspined?
                                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 1:26 PM

                                           

                                          I have been shooting for a number of years, but I have never been a consistent archer (my arrows are always all over the place). I was always under the impression that the spine of your arrow should be within 2 to 3 pounds of you bow weight. I looked at the chart, but I need someone who knows how to read it to explain to me how to determine what spine weight arrow I should be using.

                                          Eoin


                                          From: "William Davis" <willied0296@...>
                                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:46:01 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] What to do when you are always overspined?

                                           

                                          I too had a problem with arrow spine when I first started shooting.  I had 35 lb bow, so figured I should be using 35 lb arrows.  I actually bought 40-45 and they worked okay, but I too had to aim at the outside edge of the black ring, to achieve a center hit.  My next set of arrows, turned out to be poorly spined, ranging from 33 lb up to 50 lb, so they were all over the target.  I decided to change arrow suppliers and in doing so, discovered the following chart, which shows that I should be using arrows spined at around 50 lbs, so I ordered 50-55s.  My aim point is now dead center.  

                                          http://www.allwoodarrows.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831

                                          If the link does not work, just go to Allwoodarrows.com, and click the spine chart link at bottom of the header banner.

                                          Gwilym of Fflint


                                        • The Greys
                                          As long as we are discussing spine let me share what I have learned about the subject and arrow making. First the basic rule is for longbow match spine to
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 7, 2013
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                                            As long as we are discussing spine let me share what I have learned about the subject and arrow making. First the basic rule is for longbow match spine to draw weight of bow. For recurve add 10 pounds to the spine. Thus 45 pound longbow, spine 45 - 50. 45 pound recurve, 55 - 60 spine. However, this is only a starting position as technique may cause need for more or less spine.

                                            Next is the issue of how spine is measured. It is measured on 28 inch centers. Thus a 40 - 45 spine shaft is such only if 28 inches long. Every inch added reduces spine by 5 pounds. Every inch less than 28 increases spine by 5 pounds. Every coat of finish added to the shaft adds back 5 pounds of spine. Thus cutting a 45 - 50 spined shaft to 30 inches reduces it's spine to 35 - 40. Add two coats of finish and you are back to 45 - 50.

                                            Next is how you orient the nock to the grain of the shaft. Basically the string/nock should be perpendicular to the grain of the shaft. This way you get maximum stiffness out of the shaft - read here, more accurate spine - and consistent flex between shafts/arrows.

                                            Point weight is the next factor. The basic rule here is 10 % FOC (Forward Of Center) for completed arrows. However, a heavier point tends to cause the shaft to hit harder (more mass) but drop faster. A lighter point, tends towards less impact (less mass) and floats a bit more - longer distance.

                                            And lastly fletching. Straight fletching = less drag. Helicoil fletching = most drag. Diagonal fletching = between straight and helicoil. All shafts spin in flight. How much spin you get is determined by how the fletches are oriented on the shaft, helicoil most, straight least. However, the jury is not in on spin increasing accuracy of the shot. However, air drag on fletching is seldom an issue in the SCA due to the shorter distances we shot. If you are going for flight arrows then straight fletching with very small, i.e. height from shaft, fletches.

                                            And we haven't even gotten into how well bow and arrow are set up, i.e. shafts "swimming" sideways or waggling up and down during flight. All issues that could cause the need to aim way off center of what you are trying to hit.

                                            And who would have thought a string on a bent stick flinging another stick would be so complex?!?

                                            Kog

                                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, William Davis <willied0296@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I too had a problem with arrow spine when I first started shooting.  I had 35 lb bow, so figured I should be using 35 lb arrows.  I actually bought 40-45 and they worked okay, but I too had to aim at the outside edge of the black ring, to achieve a center hit.  My next set of arrows, turned out to be poorly spined, ranging from 33 lb up to 50 lb, so they were all over the target.  I decided to change arrow suppliers and in doing so, discovered the following chart, which shows that I should be using arrows spined at around 50 lbs, so I ordered 50-55s.  My aim point is now dead center.  
                                            > http://www.allwoodarrows.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831
                                            > If the link does not work, just go to Allwoodarrows.com, and click the spine chart link at bottom of the header banner.
                                            > Gwilym of Fflint
                                            >
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