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Re: [SCA-Archery] youth archery

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  • Taslen
    Jon, I was wondering the same thing at BWTA. Gaelen ________________________________ From: John Edgerton To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 19, 2013
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      Jon,

      I was wondering the same thing at BWTA.

      Gaelen



      From: John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:35 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] youth archery

       
      Do the new rules regarding children's activities also require the target archery marshals, working with children on the range at an event and with a parent or legal guardian of the child present, to be vetted?

      Jon 


    • Siegfried
      Jon, are you referring to some new new rule that I haven t been made aware of yet? Or are you simply referring to the Background check rules, that were put
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 25, 2013
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        Jon, are you referring to some 'new new rule' that I haven't been made
        aware of yet?

        Or are you simply referring to the Background check rules, that were put
        into place ... I'm thinking like 3-5 years ago now.

        If the latter, then no. It was confirmed by Society that a working
        archery range, that happened to include youth archers, need not have
        their marshals specifically vetted/background checked.

        Basically because the implication is not that: "This is a kid's
        activity". It happens to be an adult activity, that kids are welcome at.

        Just like an A&S competition, or dancing at an event. If youth happen
        to show up, that's fine.

        The situation changes if it's specifically advertised as a "Kid's
        activity" or "Kid only" versus simply inclusive.

        So yes, if you specifically said: "We are having Youth Archery from X
        to Y, at a 'youth range'" ... Then one could argue that a 'Youth
        Officer' would need to be involved/available during that time.

        YMMV, This is just what I was told back when the rules were put in
        place, and I was inquiring for Atlantia.

        In Service,
        Siegfried


        On 2/19/13 2:35 PM, John Edgerton wrote:
        >
        >
        > Do the new rules regarding children's activities also require the target
        > archery marshals, working with children on the range at an event and
        > with a parent or legal guardian of the child present, to be vetted?
        >
        > Jon
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
        http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
      • Doug Copley
        We have been telling youth archers that their parents must be there with them. We are not a babysitting service and we cannot safely run a range and watch a
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 25, 2013
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          We have been telling youth archers that their parents must be there with them. We are not a babysitting service and we cannot safely run a range and watch a bunch of kids. So the parents are bringing them and must stay with them.

          Vincenti
          Ansteorra


          On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Siegfried <siegfried@...> wrote:
           

          Jon, are you referring to some 'new new rule' that I haven't been made
          aware of yet?

          Or are you simply referring to the Background check rules, that were put
          into place ... I'm thinking like 3-5 years ago now.

          If the latter, then no. It was confirmed by Society that a working
          archery range, that happened to include youth archers, need not have
          their marshals specifically vetted/background checked.

          Basically because the implication is not that: "This is a kid's
          activity". It happens to be an adult activity, that kids are welcome at.

          Just like an A&S competition, or dancing at an event. If youth happen
          to show up, that's fine.

          The situation changes if it's specifically advertised as a "Kid's
          activity" or "Kid only" versus simply inclusive.

          So yes, if you specifically said: "We are having Youth Archery from X
          to Y, at a 'youth range'" ... Then one could argue that a 'Youth
          Officer' would need to be involved/available during that time.

          YMMV, This is just what I was told back when the rules were put in
          place, and I was inquiring for Atlantia.

          In Service,
          Siegfried

          On 2/19/13 2:35 PM, John Edgerton wrote:
          >
          >
          > Do the new rules regarding children's activities also require the target
          > archery marshals, working with children on the range at an event and
          > with a parent or legal guardian of the child present, to be vetted?
          >
          > Jon
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
          http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/


        • Siegfried
          Sure, and all marshals should always use discretion to run a safe line. Of course, realize that 15yr olds are Youth , and we ve had 15yr olds who are
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 25, 2013
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            Sure, and all marshals should always use discretion to run a safe line.

            Of course, realize that 15yr olds are 'Youth', and we've had 15yr olds
            who are grandmaster archers.

            Also that I know some 7yr olds I trust completely on the range by
            themself, and some 15yr olds I won't allow without their parent present :)

            (Heck, there's some adults I might not allow without a dedicated marshal
            assigned to them *grin*)

            Siegfried


            On 2/25/13 11:15 PM, Doug Copley wrote:
            >
            >
            > We have been telling youth archers that their parents must be there with
            > them. We are not a babysitting service and we cannot safely run a range
            > and watch a bunch of kids. So the parents are bringing them and must
            > stay with them.
            >
            > Vincenti
            > Ansteorra
            >
            >
            > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Siegfried <siegfried@...
            > <mailto:siegfried@...>> wrote:
            >
            > __
            >
            >
            > Jon, are you referring to some 'new new rule' that I haven't been made
            > aware of yet?
            >
            > Or are you simply referring to the Background check rules, that were put
            > into place ... I'm thinking like 3-5 years ago now.
            >
            > If the latter, then no. It was confirmed by Society that a working
            > archery range, that happened to include youth archers, need not have
            > their marshals specifically vetted/background checked.
            >
            > Basically because the implication is not that: "This is a kid's
            > activity". It happens to be an adult activity, that kids are welcome at.
            >
            > Just like an A&S competition, or dancing at an event. If youth happen
            > to show up, that's fine.
            >
            > The situation changes if it's specifically advertised as a "Kid's
            > activity" or "Kid only" versus simply inclusive.
            >
            > So yes, if you specifically said: "We are having Youth Archery from X
            > to Y, at a 'youth range'" ... Then one could argue that a 'Youth
            > Officer' would need to be involved/available during that time.
            >
            > YMMV, This is just what I was told back when the rules were put in
            > place, and I was inquiring for Atlantia.
            >
            > In Service,
            > Siegfried
            >
            > On 2/19/13 2:35 PM, John Edgerton wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Do the new rules regarding children's activities also require the
            > target
            > > archery marshals, working with children on the range at an event and
            > > with a parent or legal guardian of the child present, to be vetted?
            > >
            > > Jon
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
            > http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
            http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
          • Suzanne Lacey
            The #1 rule on kids is the Two Deep rule, meaning there must always be two unrelated adults anytime there is an SCA activity that includes children. For
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 26, 2013
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              The #1 rule on kids is the "Two Deep" rule, meaning there must always be two unrelated adults anytime there is an SCA activity that includes children. For archery purposes this means:

              1) Children 12 and under must be within sight and sound of a parent or someone the parent has designated as a temporary guardian; if this temporary guardian is 18 or over, you automatically have two adults, the guardian and whoever is running the range. If the child is in the care of a babysitter under 18, then there must be two unrelated adults in addition to the under-age babysitter. The second adult does not have to be an official at the range, just another adult.

              2) Youth 14-17 may attend archery without a parent (local rules may vary), but in this case there must be two unrelated adults on the range. Notice that 13 year olds got left out here. SCA rules say 13 year olds may be out and about without a parent within sight and sound, but archery rules set 14 as the age a youth may attend without a parent or parent designee. 13 year olds still need a parent or designee at the range with them. Again, local rules may vary.

              Waivers:
              1) Any youth at an SCA event or practice must have a signed Minor’s Consent to Participate and Hold Harmless; if the youth has his or her own Blue Card, they don't need the Consent form as a signed Blue Card is the same thing. If this is a practice, someone at the range needs to see to this. If this is an event, archery doesn't have to verify that the Consent form or Blue Card is signed because they have taken care of it at Gate. Look for a Gate token to make sure the kid actually did sign in.

              2) Any youth attending an SCA event or practice without their parent must also have a signed Medical Authorization for Minors. At practices, this usually comes up when a parent brings their own child plus a friend. The attending parent must bring a form signed by the absent parent before the friend can participate. A teenager would also need this form even if they drive themselves to practice. Again, at an event this is taken care of at Gate and only applies to a youth attending without a parent (the Authorization must be signed by the absent parent ahead of the event). Look for the token that tells you the kid went through Gate.

              Discipline:
              On the archery field, the Marshal is in charge of safety. If a youth is unsafe, the marshal is expected to take corrective action. Some youths, particularly younger children, will need one-on-one care to be safe. If a responsible/capable adult isn't available for that, it's OK to turn a youth away. If a youth is "acting up," the marshal may ban him/her from the line and/or the range. Marshals should request that parents/guardians deal with their wayward offspring rather than deal with it directly, and must never yell at or restrain a youth unless there is immediate danger. If an older youth isn't cooperating with the marshal's instruction (refusing to leave or other serious disruption), the constable should be called - they have a protocol for dealing with youth. This would also apply to a younger child if the parent cannot control them.

              Injury:
              If a youth is injured on the archery field, it needs to be tended to by the parent or guardian. If the injury is to an older youth there without a parent and the injury is serious, someone needs to go find the parent and the chirurgeon needs to be called. If this is at a practice, that's what the Medical waiver is for.

              Background Checks:
              Archery is a marshalate activity rather that a Youth activity and does not require a background checked adult. Siegfried's explanation is spot on: it's an adult activity in which youth may participate. Even if you have Youth shoots at an event, it's still archery, not Youth Activities. As long as the range maintains the Two Deep Rule, all is good.

              I believe the above to be correct, but I've cc'd this to Baron David of Caithness who has been working intensively on Youth issues and will know if I've gone astray.

              YIS,
              Suzanne Delaplaine
              Caid






              On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Siegfried <siegfried@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sure, and all marshals should always use discretion to run a safe line.
              >
              > Of course, realize that 15yr olds are 'Youth', and we've had 15yr olds
              > who are grandmaster archers.
              >
              > Also that I know some 7yr olds I trust completely on the range by
              > themself, and some 15yr olds I won't allow without their parent present :)
              >
              > (Heck, there's some adults I might not allow without a dedicated marshal
              > assigned to them *grin*)
              >
              > Siegfried
              >
              >
              > On 2/25/13 11:15 PM, Doug Copley wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > We have been telling youth archers that their parents must be there with
              > > them. We are not a babysitting service and we cannot safely run a range
              > > and watch a bunch of kids. So the parents are bringing them and must
              > > stay with them.
              > >
              > > Vincenti
              > > Ansteorra
              > >
              > >
              > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Siegfried <siegfried@...
              > > <mailto:siegfried@...>> wrote:
              > >
              > >     __
              > >
              > >
              > >     Jon, are you referring to some 'new new rule' that I haven't been made
              > >     aware of yet?
              > >
              > >     Or are you simply referring to the Background check rules, that were put
              > >     into place ... I'm thinking like 3-5 years ago now.
              > >
              > >     If the latter, then no. It was confirmed by Society that a working
              > >     archery range, that happened to include youth archers, need not have
              > >     their marshals specifically vetted/background checked.
              > >
              > >     Basically because the implication is not that: "This is a kid's
              > >     activity". It happens to be an adult activity, that kids are welcome at.
              > >
              > >     Just like an A&S competition, or dancing at an event. If youth happen
              > >     to show up, that's fine.
              > >
              > >     The situation changes if it's specifically advertised as a "Kid's
              > >     activity" or "Kid only" versus simply inclusive.
              > >
              > >     So yes, if you specifically said: "We are having Youth Archery from X
              > >     to Y, at a 'youth range'" ... Then one could argue that a 'Youth
              > >     Officer' would need to be involved/available during that time.
              > >
              > >     YMMV, This is just what I was told back when the rules were put in
              > >     place, and I was inquiring for Atlantia.
              > >
              > >     In Service,
              > >     Siegfried
              > >
              > >     On 2/19/13 2:35 PM, John Edgerton wrote:
              > >     >
              > >     >
              > >     > Do the new rules regarding children's activities also require the
              > >     target
              > >     > archery marshals, working with children on the range at an event and
              > >     > with a parent or legal guardian of the child present, to be vetted?
              > >     >
              > >     > Jon
              > >     >
              > >     >
              > >     >
              > >
              > >     --
              > >     Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
              > >     http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
              > http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
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