Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem

Expand Messages
  • Sean Powell
    I ve done that sort of bruising to myself when self teaching. Turned out it wasn t my stance and it was only partially about rotating my elbow out but it was
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 10, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      I've done that sort of bruising to myself when self teaching. Turned out it wasn't my stance and it was only partially about rotating my elbow out but it was primarily about the gripon the bow itself. The grip was smooth and slippery so to maintain control I was flexing my wrist do my palm was forward to support the grip in the meat of my hand. I switched bows to a leather wrapped grip and it was secure enough that I would straighten my wrist.After learning to rotate my shoulder to gt the elbow out and then rotate my forearm back to get the thumb vertical and then not rock my wrist back I was able to reduce the bruising... but it took fixing the grip frist for me to find a solution.

      Anyone else feel that the most comfortable bow grip would be a horizontal bar? Turn a long bow into a giant slingshot  and rest the arrow between first and second knuckle? It's how my arm wants to work.
       
      Sean Powell / Symon de Poitiers


      On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Doug Copley <doug.copley@...> wrote:
       

      I would recommend a lower poundage bow. The problem is her form is wrong and due to several issues she does not have the strength and ability to change it. She has to go to a lower poundage bow and build up. I will have people lie on their side on a couch and use the arm that is up to reach down to the floor and pick up a gallon jug of water, after some reps that way switch ends and lay on the other side and do it again. It does not take long to build up enough muscles to start correcting the form. Also, remember it is better to shoot 20 arrows with correct for and then stop rather than continue shooting 30 more arrows and doing it wrong.

      Vincenti


      On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Dave <dances.with.beers@...> wrote:
       

      I usually have them start with the bow held horizontal then turn the
      bow hand towards vertical without rotating the elbow. In my
      experience this works for the majority of elbow-slappers and does not
      seem to place undue stress on the joint. Otherwise, the "full-arm"
      bracer helps.

      On 1/9/13, Ld.blackmoon ld.blackmoon@...> wrote:
      > greetings
      >
      > you might try having her line up both her shoulders with her bow hand .
      > sorry, I'm not very good at the description : (
      > a lot of females and some guys have issues with bending the elbow out of the
      > way, it places a lot of extra stress on the arm muscles as well
      > by, aligning the shoulders and bow hand , the elbow will reposition from
      > horizontal ( elbow facing up and down, widest parts sticking out the sides )
      > to vertical ( elbow facing sides, and widest parts sticking up and down )
      > .
      > you can also reposition the elbow by rolling the bow shoulder towards the
      > bow hand, but it's harder on the shoulder joint in the long run : (
      > 2nd possible solution,
      > if she is severely hyper extending her elbow , she may need a reinforced "
      > long arm guard " that attaches both above and below the elbow , in order to
      > restrict the hyper extension in the bow arm
      > hope that helps : )
      >
      > Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
      > Arthur
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Samuel
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:06 PM
      > Subject: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem
      >
      >
      >
      > Recently I was at a local indoor range. While there I started chatting
      > with some new archers. One of the ladies showed me her elbow. It had
      > bruises that any heavy fighter would be proud to brag about. These
      > bruises were "a few days old". I recommended that she twist the elbow
      > out of the way like other female archers have to do. She complained
      > that she had tried that already and it was to uncomfortable. I then
      > suggested that she open her stance in order to put more of an angle in
      > the shoulder. This "put to much pressure where she had back surgery".
      >
      > I'm at a loss as to what to suggest if I ever run across these folks
      > again. I know the bruises can't be sustained. I'm afraid that they
      > might lead to other serious health issues (such as blood clots) if they
      > persist.
      >
      > Any suggestions?
      > Samuel
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6000 - Release Date: 12/31/12
      > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
      >

      --
      Sent from my mobile device



    • Mackenzie Morgan
      I was having that sort of trouble. While working on learning to keep my arm slightly bent (not hyperextended) and rotate my elbow and move my shoulder
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 10, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        I was having that sort of trouble. While working on learning to keep my arm slightly bent (not hyperextended) and rotate my elbow and move my shoulder slightly, I wore this http://www.flickr.com/photos/maco_nix/7259810474/  My boyfriend made it from some scrap leather we picked up at Pennsic. Since it's two pieces, I can still bend my arm while having heavy leather where it's needed (long guards I've seen seem to have very thin material at the elbow to let you move). Last event I went to with archery, I ended up taking it off (and trying really hard not to have the "well, now that you've removed it...THWACK" thing happen) and handing it to a teenager who was refusing to shoot because of past experiences bruising her there.

        Grazia
      • Marie Cowan
        When learning my recurve, I wore an arm guard on my forearm since that was where my string hit. As I learned a proper grip, wrist angle, slight bend in elbow,
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 10, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          When learning my recurve, I wore an arm guard on my forearm since that was where my string hit. As I learned a proper grip, wrist angle, slight bend in elbow, and grew stronger the string stopped hitting my arm. Now I do not wear an arm guard. It took a conscious effort to pay attention to my form with each shot. If I felt my elbow was locked, grip was off, or shoulder turn was off - I ran a mental checklist. But doing it helped my form and even my shooting level. 

          Recently watched first in the series Masters of the Barebow. Professional traditional bow competitors and hunters  explained their techniques for grip, aiming, and judging distances. It was a great reminder how important it is to stay aware and consistent with your form.

          Have met other people who use the two-part arm guards and seems to help them. But lowering bow weight to start, doing some strength exercise like others said, and practicing more could help. She will consciously have to make the effort and pay attention to her posture with each shot. May make her slow down in taking each shot for a bit but....she's training her body proper form.        

          Emma Reuschell


          On Jan 10, 2013, at 6:03 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:

           

          I've done that sort of bruising to myself when self teaching. Turned out it wasn't my stance and it was only partially about rotating my elbow out but it was primarily about the gripon the bow itself. The grip was smooth and slippery so to maintain control I was flexing my wrist do my palm was forward to support the grip in the meat of my hand. I switched bows to a leather wrapped grip and it was secure enough that I would straighten my wrist.After learning to rotate my shoulder to gt the elbow out and then rotate my forearm back to get the thumb vertical and then not rock my wrist back I was able to reduce the bruising... but it took fixing the grip frist for me to find a solution.

          Anyone else feel that the most comfortable bow grip would be a horizontal bar? Turn a long bow into a giant slingshot  and rest the arrow between first and second knuckle? It's how my arm wants to work.
           
          Sean Powell / Symon de Poitiers


          On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Doug Copley <doug.copley@...> wrote:
           

          I would recommend a lower poundage bow. The problem is her form is wrong and due to several issues she does not have the strength and ability to change it. She has to go to a lower poundage bow and build up. I will have people lie on their side on a couch and use the arm that is up to reach down to the floor and pick up a gallon jug of water, after some reps that way switch ends and lay on the other side and do it again. It does not take long to build up enough muscles to start correcting the form. Also, remember it is better to shoot 20 arrows with correct for and then stop rather than continue shooting 30 more arrows and doing it wrong.

          Vincenti


          On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Dave <dances.with.beers@...> wrote:
           

          I usually have them start with the bow held horizontal then turn the
          bow hand towards vertical without rotating the elbow. In my
          experience this works for the majority of elbow-slappers and does not
          seem to place undue stress on the joint. Otherwise, the "full-arm"
          bracer helps.

          On 1/9/13, Ld.blackmoon ld.blackmoon@...> wrote:
          > greetings
          >
          > you might try having her line up both her shoulders with her bow hand .
          > sorry, I'm not very good at the description : (
          > a lot of females and some guys have issues with bending the elbow out of the
          > way, it places a lot of extra stress on the arm muscles as well
          > by, aligning the shoulders and bow hand , the elbow will reposition from
          > horizontal ( elbow facing up and down, widest parts sticking out the sides )
          > to vertical ( elbow facing sides, and widest parts sticking up and down )
          > .
          > you can also reposition the elbow by rolling the bow shoulder towards the
          > bow hand, but it's harder on the shoulder joint in the long run : (
          > 2nd possible solution,
          > if she is severely hyper extending her elbow , she may need a reinforced "
          > long arm guard " that attaches both above and below the elbow , in order to
          > restrict the hyper extension in the bow arm
          > hope that helps : )
          >
          > Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
          > Arthur
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Samuel
          > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:06 PM
          > Subject: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem
          >
          >
          >
          > Recently I was at a local indoor range. While there I started chatting
          > with some new archers. One of the ladies showed me her elbow. It had
          > bruises that any heavy fighter would be proud to brag about. These
          > bruises were "a few days old". I recommended that she twist the elbow
          > out of the way like other female archers have to do. She complained
          > that she had tried that already and it was to uncomfortable. I then
          > suggested that she open her stance in order to put more of an angle in
          > the shoulder. This "put to much pressure where she had back surgery".
          >
          > I'm at a loss as to what to suggest if I ever run across these folks
          > again. I know the bruises can't be sustained. I'm afraid that they
          > might lead to other serious health issues (such as blood clots) if they
          > persist.
          >
          > Any suggestions?
          > Samuel
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6000 - Release Date: 12/31/12
          > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
          >

          --
          Sent from my mobile device



        • Marie Cowan
          Sean, I have angled my bow at times and It helped at times. I still do it if I feel my arm is a little fatigued. Marie
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 10, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Sean, 

            I have angled my bow at times and It helped at times. I still do it if I feel my arm is a little fatigued. 

            Marie

            On Jan 10, 2013, at 6:03 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:

             

            I've done that sort of bruising to myself when self teaching. Turned out it wasn't my stance and it was only partially about rotating my elbow out but it was primarily about the gripon the bow itself. The grip was smooth and slippery so to maintain control I was flexing my wrist do my palm was forward to support the grip in the meat of my hand. I switched bows to a leather wrapped grip and it was secure enough that I would straighten my wrist.After learning to rotate my shoulder to gt the elbow out and then rotate my forearm back to get the thumb vertical and then not rock my wrist back I was able to reduce the bruising... but it took fixing the grip frist for me to find a solution.

            Anyone else feel that the most comfortable bow grip would be a horizontal bar? Turn a long bow into a giant slingshot  and rest the arrow between first and second knuckle? It's how my arm wants to work.
             
            Sean Powell / Symon de Poitiers


            On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Doug Copley <doug.copley@...> wrote:
             

            I would recommend a lower poundage bow. The problem is her form is wrong and due to several issues she does not have the strength and ability to change it. She has to go to a lower poundage bow and build up. I will have people lie on their side on a couch and use the arm that is up to reach down to the floor and pick up a gallon jug of water, after some reps that way switch ends and lay on the other side and do it again. It does not take long to build up enough muscles to start correcting the form. Also, remember it is better to shoot 20 arrows with correct for and then stop rather than continue shooting 30 more arrows and doing it wrong.

            Vincenti


            On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Dave <dances.with.beers@...> wrote:
             

            I usually have them start with the bow held horizontal then turn the
            bow hand towards vertical without rotating the elbow. In my
            experience this works for the majority of elbow-slappers and does not
            seem to place undue stress on the joint. Otherwise, the "full-arm"
            bracer helps.

            On 1/9/13, Ld.blackmoon ld.blackmoon@...> wrote:
            > greetings
            >
            > you might try having her line up both her shoulders with her bow hand .
            > sorry, I'm not very good at the description : (
            > a lot of females and some guys have issues with bending the elbow out of the
            > way, it places a lot of extra stress on the arm muscles as well
            > by, aligning the shoulders and bow hand , the elbow will reposition from
            > horizontal ( elbow facing up and down, widest parts sticking out the sides )
            > to vertical ( elbow facing sides, and widest parts sticking up and down )
            > .
            > you can also reposition the elbow by rolling the bow shoulder towards the
            > bow hand, but it's harder on the shoulder joint in the long run : (
            > 2nd possible solution,
            > if she is severely hyper extending her elbow , she may need a reinforced "
            > long arm guard " that attaches both above and below the elbow , in order to
            > restrict the hyper extension in the bow arm
            > hope that helps : )
            >
            > Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
            > Arthur
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Samuel
            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:06 PM
            > Subject: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem
            >
            >
            >
            > Recently I was at a local indoor range. While there I started chatting
            > with some new archers. One of the ladies showed me her elbow. It had
            > bruises that any heavy fighter would be proud to brag about. These
            > bruises were "a few days old". I recommended that she twist the elbow
            > out of the way like other female archers have to do. She complained
            > that she had tried that already and it was to uncomfortable. I then
            > suggested that she open her stance in order to put more of an angle in
            > the shoulder. This "put to much pressure where she had back surgery".
            >
            > I'm at a loss as to what to suggest if I ever run across these folks
            > again. I know the bruises can't be sustained. I'm afraid that they
            > might lead to other serious health issues (such as blood clots) if they
            > persist.
            >
            > Any suggestions?
            > Samuel
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6000 - Release Date: 12/31/12
            > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
            >

            --
            Sent from my mobile device



          • stalek@comcast.net
            My son could never seem to get his elbow out of the way, either. I ended up making an arm guard for him that attached to both the fore arm and the upper arm
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 14, 2013
            • 0 Attachment

              My son could never seem to get his elbow out of the way, either. I ended up making an arm guard for him that attached to both the fore arm and the upper arm with a leather strap that covered the elbow. This helped him a great deal.

               

              Eoin


              From: "Ld.blackmoon" <ld.blackmoon@...>
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:59:10 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem

               

              greetings
               
              you might try having her line up both her shoulders with her bow hand .
              sorry, I'm not very good at the description : (
              a lot of females and some guys have issues with bending the elbow out of the way, it places a lot of extra stress on the arm muscles as well
              by, aligning the shoulders and bow hand , the elbow will reposition from horizontal ( elbow facing up and down, widest parts sticking out the sides ) to vertical ( elbow facing  sides, and widest parts sticking up and down ) .
              you can also reposition the elbow by rolling the bow shoulder towards the bow hand, but it's harder on the shoulder joint in the long run : (
              2nd possible solution,
              if she is severely hyper extending her elbow , she may need a reinforced " long arm guard "  that attaches both above and below the elbow , in order to restrict the hyper extension in the bow arm
              hope that helps : )
               
              Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
              Arthur
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Samuel
              Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:06 PM
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] I need help with a coaching problem

               

              Recently I was at a local indoor range. While there I started chatting
              with some new archers. One of the ladies showed me her elbow. It had
              bruises that any heavy fighter would be proud to brag about. These
              bruises were "a few days old". I recommended that she twist the elbow
              out of the way like other female archers have to do. She complained
              that she had tried that already and it was to uncomfortable. I then
              suggested that she open her stance in order to put more of an angle in
              the shoulder. This "put to much pressure where she had back surgery".

              I'm at a loss as to what to suggest if I ever run across these folks
              again. I know the bruises can't be sustained. I'm afraid that they
              might lead to other serious health issues (such as blood clots) if they
              persist.

              Any suggestions?
              Samuel

              No virus found in this message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6000 - Release Date: 12/31/12
              Internal Virus Database is out of date.

            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.