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Getting back into traditional archery.

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  • Sean Powell
    Hello, After about a decade of my bow collecting dust I ve decided that heavy weapons isn t as forgiving on my joints as it once was and have decided to get
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
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      Hello,
       
      After about a decade of my bow collecting dust I've decided that heavy weapons isn't as forgiving on my joints as it once was and have decided to get back into archery on a regular basis. As such I have probably forgotten more then I realize. I need to ask a bunch of questions so I appologize if any of these seem silly or easy to look up elsewhere.
       
      Most importantly is the 55lb Bushmaster I used to shoot was a wonderful tool when my muscles were accustomed to it but right now it's a little unstable after the 4th or 5th set of flights. Other then stringing, drawing and holding 20 times per night, what are good exercises to build up archery muscles?

      I was originally taught a draw-style for heavy bows that is very efficient. Point the bow UP, pull the nock to the anchor point first, push up on the bow second, let the weight of the bow come down and cam the shoulders into the final draw length. This is a very muscle efficient way of pulling a heavy bow but some marshals freak out when the arrow is partially drawn and pointed up. While I have never had a misfire I won't say that their fears are unfounded. What is the best way to pull a heavy bow and does anyone know the period way to pull a heavy bow? Videos are great.
       
      I'm re-habbing some old arrows that are probably under-spined for my bow but I'd rather loose and bust-up my beaters while getting back into pratice. How much hot-melt should be used to re-mount a tip? How hot does it need to be to melt without burning the wood? (Is MAPP too hot and do I need to switch to Propane?) Is there a good way to get broken nocks free and I think I can mount new-ones with fletch-tight?
       
      Does fletch-tight have a shelf-life? Mine is 10+ years old.
       
      I'm using a continuous loop dacron string but would like to switch to a flemish twist instead. I recall there being a controversy about them at some point in the past? Is there anything I should be aware of in terms of legal equipment changes in the past 10 years or so?
       
      Hmmm, I know I had more questions but I can't think of them right now. I appreciate the help getting back into the game.
       
      Thank you
      Sean Powell
      Symon de Poitiers
    • frode_kettilsson
      Welcome back Symon, I ll let others speak to exercise and such, and I use and make my own Flemish strings, so I m not aware of any issues there, but I can say
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
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        Welcome back Symon,
        I'll let others speak to exercise and such, and I use and make my own Flemish strings, so I'm not aware of any issues there, but I can say for the hot melt, a candle or an alcohol lamp is more than sufficient.  I should think that either of the gas torches would probably cook (destroy) the glue too quickly, and/or char the shafts.  I use a tea light candle (cheap, from a bulk bag), and it has lasted me through literally dozens of arrows!  It is quick, but it gives you a little time to make sure everything is going as planned.

        I've freed broken nocks with a pair of pliers, carefully crushing the remnants and picking off the pieces.  You'll probably need to five the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool to clean up the end and get a good gluing surface.  I use Super Glue or Crazy Glue on my nocks, and I don't think that has ever failed (I don't remember it ever happening to me, but it can be glued right back on with the same, and then it will never come off!

        I don't have any experience with fletch-tight, but after 10 years, I'd probably advise replacing.

        YIS,
        Frode


        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > After about a decade of my bow collecting dust I've decided that heavy
        > weapons isn't as forgiving on my joints as it once was and have decided to
        > get back into archery on a regular basis. As such I have probably forgotten
        > more then I realize. I need to ask a bunch of questions so I appologize if
        > any of these seem silly or easy to look up elsewhere.
        >
        > Most importantly is the 55lb Bushmaster I used to shoot was a wonderful
        > tool when my muscles were accustomed to it but right now it's a little
        > unstable after the 4th or 5th set of flights. Other then stringing, drawing
        > and holding 20 times per night, what are good exercises to build up archery
        > muscles?
        >
        > I was originally taught a draw-style for heavy bows that is very efficient.
        > Point the bow UP, pull the nock to the anchor point first, push up on the
        > bow second, let the weight of the bow come down and cam the shoulders into
        > the final draw length. This is a very muscle efficient way of pulling a
        > heavy bow but some marshals freak out when the arrow is partially drawn and
        > pointed up. While I have never had a misfire I won't say that their fears
        > are unfounded. What is the best way to pull a heavy bow and does anyone
        > know the period way to pull a heavy bow? Videos are great.
        >
        > I'm re-habbing some old arrows that are probably under-spined for my bow
        > but I'd rather loose and bust-up my beaters while getting back into
        > pratice. How much hot-melt should be used to re-mount a tip? How hot does
        > it need to be to melt without burning the wood? (Is MAPP too hot and do I
        > need to switch to Propane?) Is there a good way to get broken nocks free
        > and I think I can mount new-ones with fletch-tight?
        >
        > Does fletch-tight have a shelf-life? Mine is 10+ years old.
        >
        > I'm using a continuous loop dacron string but would like to switch to a
        > flemish twist instead. I recall there being a controversy about them at
        > some point in the past? Is there anything I should be aware of in terms of
        > legal equipment changes in the past 10 years or so?
        >
        > Hmmm, I know I had more questions but I can't think of them right now. I
        > appreciate the help getting back into the game.
        >
        > Thank you
        > Sean Powell
        > Symon de Poitiers
        >
      • frode_kettilsson
        That should read, You ll probably need to give the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool ... ... heavy ... little ... on ... shoulders ...
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
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          That should read, "You'll probably need to give the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool"...


          >
          >
          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell sean14powell@
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > After about a decade of my bow collecting dust I've decided that heavy
          > > weapons isn't as forgiving on my joints as it once was and have
          > decided to
          > > get back into archery on a regular basis. As such I have probably
          > forgotten
          > > more then I realize. I need to ask a bunch of questions so I
          > appologize if
          > > any of these seem silly or easy to look up elsewhere.
          > >
          > > Most importantly is the 55lb Bushmaster I used to shoot was a
          > wonderful
          > > tool when my muscles were accustomed to it but right now it's a little
          > > unstable after the 4th or 5th set of flights. Other then stringing,
          > drawing
          > > and holding 20 times per night, what are good exercises to build up
          > archery
          > > muscles?
          > >
          > > I was originally taught a draw-style for heavy bows that is very
          > efficient.
          > > Point the bow UP, pull the nock to the anchor point first, push up on
          > the
          > > bow second, let the weight of the bow come down and cam the shoulders
          > into
          > > the final draw length. This is a very muscle efficient way of pulling
          > a
          > > heavy bow but some marshals freak out when the arrow is partially
          > drawn and
          > > pointed up. While I have never had a misfire I won't say that their
          > fears
          > > are unfounded. What is the best way to pull a heavy bow and does
          > anyone
          > > know the period way to pull a heavy bow? Videos are great.
          > >
          > > I'm re-habbing some old arrows that are probably under-spined for my
          > bow
          > > but I'd rather loose and bust-up my beaters while getting back into
          > > pratice. How much hot-melt should be used to re-mount a tip? How hot
          > does
          > > it need to be to melt without burning the wood? (Is MAPP too hot and
          > do I
          > > need to switch to Propane?) Is there a good way to get broken nocks
          > free
          > > and I think I can mount new-ones with fletch-tight?
          > >
          > > Does fletch-tight have a shelf-life? Mine is 10+ years old.
          > >
          > > I'm using a continuous loop dacron string but would like to switch to
          > a
          > > flemish twist instead. I recall there being a controversy about them
          > at
          > > some point in the past? Is there anything I should be aware of in
          > terms of
          > > legal equipment changes in the past 10 years or so?
          > >
          > > Hmmm, I know I had more questions but I can't think of them right now.
          > I
          > > appreciate the help getting back into the game.
          > >
          > > Thank you
          > > Sean Powell
          > > Symon de Poitiers
          > >
          >
        • Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon
          ... Welcome back! ... I would go with a lighter recurve or long bow. 40 pounds is plenty to do all we do in the SCA and a good recurve has enough zip to keep a
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
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            > Hello,
            >
            > After about a decade of my bow collecting dust I've
            > decided that heavy
            > weapons isn't as forgiving on my joints as it once was
            > and have decided to
            > get back into archery on a regular basis. As such I have
            > probably forgotten
            > more then I realize. I need to ask a bunch of questions
            > so I appologize if
            > any of these seem silly or easy to look up elsewhere.

            Welcome back!


            > Most importantly is the 55lb Bushmaster I used to shoot
            > was a wonderful
            > tool when my muscles were accustomed to it but right now
            > it's a little
            > unstable after the 4th or 5th set of flights. Other then
            > stringing, drawing
            > and holding 20 times per night, what are good exercises
            > to build up archery
            > muscles?

            I would go with a lighter recurve or long bow. 40 pounds is
            plenty to do all we do in the SCA and a good recurve has
            enough zip to keep a lighter arrow flying straight. One of
            the best shooters around I know pulls 45 pounds, most pull
            less. That said, the sporting goods store has bungee like
            muscle training devices with handles on both ends for a few
            bucks. You can modify one as needed to simulate a bow draw.

            > I was originally taught a draw-style for heavy bows that
            > is very efficient.
            > Point the bow UP, pull the nock to the anchor point
            > first, push up on the
            > bow second, let the weight of the bow come down and cam
            > the shoulders into
            > the final draw length. This is a very muscle efficient
            > way of pulling a
            > heavy bow but some marshals freak out when the arrow is
            > partially drawn and
            > pointed up. While I have never had a misfire I won't say
            > that their fears
            > are unfounded. What is the best way to pull a heavy bow
            > and does anyone
            > know the period way to pull a heavy bow? Videos are
            > great.

            Again, get a lighter bow and you can draw horizontal.

            >
            > I'm re-habbing some old arrows that are probably
            > under-spined for my bow
            > but I'd rather loose and bust-up my beaters while getting
            > back into
            > pratice. How much hot-melt should be used to re-mount a
            > tip? How hot does
            > it need to be to melt without burning the wood? (Is MAPP
            > too hot and do I
            > need to switch to Propane?) Is there a good way to get
            > broken nocks free
            > and I think I can mount new-ones with fletch-tight?

            Hot enough to make it flow, which is nowhere near hot
            enough to burn the wood. Soften the glue put a dab on the
            shaft. Then heat the tip and push it on, hold for a few
            seconds and dip in water. Enough glue to make it squeeze
            out. I peel off the excess when it cools. Not a lot of heat
            is needed. MAP or propane works, but is really overkill. I
            use a small butane torch from my local home improvement
            center, like so:


            http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100564678/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=butane+torch&storeId=10051#.UGp8B0IVyU0

            Fletch Tite is fine for nocks. A little heat can help
            loosen an old one.

            > Does fletch-tight have a shelf-life? Mine is 10+ years
            > old.

            I would get a fresh tube.

            >
            > I'm using a continuous loop dacron string but would like
            > to switch to a
            > flemish twist instead. I recall there being a controversy
            > about them at
            > some point in the past? Is there anything I should be
            > aware of in terms of
            > legal equipment changes in the past 10 years or so?

            Flemish twists are the most common stringing technique for
            long bows and recurves that I see out there today.


            > Hmmm, I know I had more questions but I can't think of
            > them right now. I
            > appreciate the help getting back into the game.
            >
            > Thank you
            > Sean Powell
            > Symon de Poitiers
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          • Sean Powell
            Frode, Hmmm. Question I didn t know I needed to know. Is a nock sharpening tool the same as the tip sharpener or is it a seperate tool? and if seperate, does
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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              Frode,
               
              Hmmm. Question I didn't know I needed to know. Is a nock sharpening tool the same as the tip sharpener or is it a seperate tool? and if seperate, does it come in different sizes like the tip sharpeners?
               
              Oscar,
               
              Also, thanks for the advice to downgrade in poundage. I know my bow is overkill for SCA sport and I may play with my wifes lower weight horse-bow for a time but a re-curve isn't appropriate for my persona (hell, I should be trampling my own Genoese crossbowmen to kill the archers not using a bow) but I also like the feel in my hands. Most other bows have a 'thwip' sound where as mine makes a beautiful 'thrunk' when it drives into a target. I also can't afford to replace much gear, hence reconditioning old arrows by scavanging tips and setting them on the better surviving shafts.
               
              Sean/Symon

              On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:02 PM, frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
               

              That should read, "You'll probably need to give the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool"...

            • Frank Schalles
              Forgive the intrusion. The taper on the nock end is different than the point end. There are companies that sell plastic pencil sharpeners) that are sized for
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                Forgive the intrusion. The taper on the nock end is different than the point end. There are companies that
                sell plastic "pencil sharpeners) that are sized for different shafts and do both ends. I bought a set of 3 for about $14. I shop
                online at 3 Rivers, but there maybe others less expensive ones out there.

                In Service,
                Francois Lions,
                Ansteorra

                On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:


                Frode,
                 
                Hmmm. Question I didn't know I needed to know. Is a nock sharpening tool the same as the tip sharpener or is it a seperate tool? and if seperate, does it come in different sizes like the tip sharpeners?
                 
                Oscar,
                 
                Also, thanks for the advice to downgrade in poundage. I know my bow is overkill for SCA sport and I may play with my wifes lower weight horse-bow for a time but a re-curve isn't appropriate for my persona (hell, I should be trampling my own Genoese crossbowmen to kill the archers not using a bow) but I also like the feel in my hands. Most other bows have a 'thwip' sound where as mine makes a beautiful 'thrunk' when it drives into a target. I also can't afford to replace much gear, hence reconditioning old arrows by scavanging tips and setting them on the better surviving shafts.
                 
                Sean/Symon

                On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:02 PM, frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
                 

                That should read, "You'll probably need to give the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool"...






                --
                Change is a function of the Universe, embrace it.

              • Sean Powell
                Thank you Francois, No intrusion, It was an open question. I bought a pencil-sharpener thingy for my daughter s bow. I planned on cutting down some of my wifes
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                  Thank you Francois,
                  No intrusion, It was an open question.
                   
                  I bought a pencil-sharpener thingy for my daughter's bow. I planned on cutting down some of my wifes old arrows for her. I assumed that there were 2 holes for when the first blade got dull. Should I now assume that one is a tip-taper and the other a nock-taper? See, another question I didn't know I needed to ask.
                   
                  Sean/Symon

                  On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Frank Schalles <francisschalles@...> wrote:
                   

                  Forgive the intrusion. The taper on the nock end is different than the point end. There are companies that
                  sell plastic "pencil sharpeners) that are sized for different shafts and do both ends. I bought a set of 3 for about $14. I shop
                  online at 3 Rivers, but there maybe others less expensive ones out there.

                  In Service,
                  Francois Lions,
                  Ansteorra


                   
                • Mackenzie Morgan
                  Yep, one of them should make a longer taper than the other. That one s for the points.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                    Yep, one of them should make a longer taper than the other. That one's for the points. 

                    On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:


                    Thank you Francois,
                    No intrusion, It was an open question.
                     
                    I bought a pencil-sharpener thingy for my daughter's bow. I planned on cutting down some of my wifes old arrows for her. I assumed that there were 2 holes for when the first blade got dull. Should I now assume that one is a tip-taper and the other a nock-taper? See, another question I didn't know I needed to ask.
                  • willied0296@yahoo.com
                    I concur with Francois; the 3 pack from 3 Rivers is a good deal. They are nice because they can be easily carried in your pouch (presuming you have one), along
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                      I concur with Francois; the 3 pack from 3 Rivers is a good deal. They are nice because they can be easily carried in your pouch (presuming you have one), along with a small bottle of super glue, for quick and easy field repairs (again, presuming you carry extra points and/or nocks with you. I do, along with needle nose pliers and a Swiss Army Knife, or a multitool).

                      Gwilym
                      Barony Beyond the Mountain
                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                      From: Frank Schalles <francisschalles@...>
                      Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 08:47:06 -0500
                      To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Getting back into traditional archery.

                       

                      Forgive the intrusion. The taper on the nock end is different than the point end. There are companies that
                      sell plastic "pencil sharpeners) that are sized for different shafts and do both ends. I bought a set of 3 for about $14. I shop
                      online at 3 Rivers, but there maybe others less expensive ones out there.

                      In Service,
                      Francois Lions,
                      Ansteorra

                      On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:


                      Frode,
                       
                      Hmmm. Question I didn't know I needed to know. Is a nock sharpening tool the same as the tip sharpener or is it a seperate tool? and if seperate, does it come in different sizes like the tip sharpeners?
                       
                      Oscar,
                       
                      Also, thanks for the advice to downgrade in poundage. I know my bow is overkill for SCA sport and I may play with my wifes lower weight horse-bow for a time but a re-curve isn't appropriate for my persona (hell, I should be trampling my own Genoese crossbowmen to kill the archers not using a bow) but I also like the feel in my hands. Most other bows have a 'thwip' sound where as mine makes a beautiful 'thrunk' when it drives into a target. I also can't afford to replace much gear, hence reconditioning old arrows by scavanging tips and setting them on the better surviving shafts.
                       
                      Sean/Symon

                      On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:02 PM, frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
                       

                      That should read, "You'll probably need to give the ends a couple of twists with the nock sharpening tool"...






                      --
                      Change is a function of the Universe, embrace it.

                    • Frank Schalles
                      One should be for the nock end and the other for the point. Take a broken or old shaft and use both cutters. You will see the difference. The nock will fit
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                        One should be for the nock end and the other for the point. Take a broken or old shaft and use both cutters. You will see the difference. The nock will fit only 1 end securely. Hope this helps.

                        Francois

                        On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:


                        Thank you Francois,
                        No intrusion, It was an open question.
                         
                        I bought a pencil-sharpener thingy for my daughter's bow. I planned on cutting down some of my wifes old arrows for her. I assumed that there were 2 holes for when the first blade got dull. Should I now assume that one is a tip-taper and the other a nock-taper? See, another question I didn't know I needed to ask.
                         
                        Sean/Symon

                        On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Frank Schalles <francisschalles@...> wrote:
                         

                        Forgive the intrusion. The taper on the nock end is different than the point end. There are companies that
                        sell plastic "pencil sharpeners) that are sized for different shafts and do both ends. I bought a set of 3 for about $14. I shop
                        online at 3 Rivers, but there maybe others less expensive ones out there.

                        In Service,
                        Francois Lions,
                        Ansteorra


                         






                        --
                        Change is a function of the Universe, embrace it.

                      • Mike Gideon
                        Typically, The point taper is 5 degrees while tthe nock taper is 11 degrees Michel mac Donnchaid Ansteorra ________________________________ From: Mackenzie
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                          Typically,
                          The point taper is 5 degrees while tthe nock taper is 11 degrees

                          Michel mac Donnchaid
                          Ansteorra


                          From: Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi@...>
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:01 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Getting back into traditional archery.

                           
                          Yep, one of them should make a longer taper than the other. That one's for the points. 

                          On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:


                          Thank you Francois,
                          No intrusion, It was an open question.
                           
                          I bought a pencil-sharpener thingy for my daughter's bow. I planned on cutting down some of my wifes old arrows for her. I assumed that there were 2 holes for when the first blade got dull. Should I now assume that one is a tip-taper and the other a nock-taper? See, another question I didn't know I needed to ask.


                        • Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon
                          Nock and tip different angle. Most of the hand tools have both. Think 2 in one pencil sharpener. On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:41:41 -0400 ... Web mail provided by
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                            Nock and tip different angle. Most of the hand tools have
                            both. Think 2 in one pencil sharpener.

                            On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:41:41 -0400
                            Sean Powell <sean14powell@...> wrote:
                            > Frode,
                            >
                            > Hmmm. Question I didn't know I needed to know. Is a nock
                            > sharpening tool
                            > the same as the tip sharpener or is it a seperate tool?
                            > and if seperate,
                            > does it come in different sizes like the tip sharpeners?
                            >
                            > Oscar,
                            >
                            > Also, thanks for the advice to downgrade in poundage. I
                            > know my bow is
                            > overkill for SCA sport and I may play with my wifes lower
                            > weight horse-bow
                            > for a time but a re-curve isn't appropriate for my
                            > persona (hell, I should
                            > be trampling my own Genoese crossbowmen to kill the
                            > archers not using a
                            > bow) but I also like the feel in my hands. Most other
                            > bows have a 'thwip'
                            > sound where as mine makes a beautiful 'thrunk' when it
                            > drives into a
                            > target. I also can't afford to replace much gear, hence
                            > reconditioning old
                            > arrows by scavanging tips and setting them on the better
                            > surviving shafts.
                            >
                            > Sean/Symon
                            >
                            > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:02 PM, frode_kettilsson
                            > <anthonyspangler@...>wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > That should read, "You'll probably need to *give* the
                            > ends a couple of
                            > > twists with the nock sharpening tool"...
                            > >

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                          • Fritz
                            When willied0296@yahoo.com put fingers to keys it was 10/2/12 10:11 AM... ... ... And a lighter and a candle. For getting the old ones off. -- Fritz Aut
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
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                              When willied0296@... put fingers to keys it was 10/2/12 10:11 AM...

                              >
                              >
                              > I concur with Francois; the 3 pack from 3 Rivers is a good deal. They
                              > are nice because they can be easily carried in your pouch (presuming you
                              > have one), along with a small bottle of super glue, for quick and easy
                              > field repairs (again, presuming you carry extra points and/or nocks with
                              > you. I do, along with needle nose pliers and a Swiss Army Knife, or a
                              > multitool).
                              >
                              > Gwilym
                              > Barony Beyond the Mountain
                              ...

                              And a lighter and a candle. For getting the old ones off.

                              --
                              Fritz
                              Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
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