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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: New poll for SCA-Archery

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  • Sean Powell
    Eógan, That s some very interesting data. You didn t happen to record if the shots were made with recurve vs long-bow or wood vs. fiber-glass vs. composite or
    Message 1 of 81 , Sep 30, 2012
      That's some very interesting data. You didn't happen to record if the shots were made with recurve vs long-bow or wood vs. fiber-glass vs. composite or 3-vs 4 fletched? It might make for an interesting best-surface fit analysis. I'd love to math-geek with it if I could
      Generally we can say that there aren't many new shooters with 50 or higher pull bows. I think we can assume that those with 75lb or 110 lb pulls were very experienced. I would expect the more experienced archers to shoot to the maximum limit of their equipment while those less experienced might have poor release technique or unstable support that robs them of range. With inexperienced archers I expect wild variation in data. Unless we are going to set the bows in a mechanical grip at a calibrated angle with a fixed base and mechanical release we probably can't get a P level above .75.
      Still it's not like a P level of .05. We can't say that draw weight has a negligible corelation to range. I'm much happier competing on a more level playing field. My draw-weight is a personal choice.
      Sean Powell
      On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:41 PM, okami49 <okami@...> wrote:

      So, three points I want to mention here. First, bow weight and distance doesn't correlate as well as most people think it does. I have been compiling witnessed data for flight shoots for a few months now, here you go:


      Is it correlated? Of course. Is it a good correlation? Not really. For those of you data heads, the value is 0.42. You don't just grab a heavier bow and expect to shoot another 100 yards, you need practice and skill to get the most out of that weight.

      Second, it's also a huge trade off as the rules state you must use the same bow and arrows for each aspect of the competition. You can grab your 55 lb bow and maybe get an extra 50 yards in the flight shoot but you could likely get more points with your 30 lb bow at 20 yards in the accuracy shoot. Personally, I love this as there are lots of situations in period where an archer would have to make this kind of choice.

      Lastly, the ability to effectively shoot a higher weight bow is a component of archery emphasized throughout period texts including the one this shoot is based on. It's a period aspect of training and skill that this competition chooses include in a small way.

      For those of you curious how it would actually work out, the Five Pillars was shot at The Nine Worthies event this fall.

      First Place: Aengus O'Nolan with a 45 lb bow.
      Second Place : Chernislava Alekseeva with a 40 lb bow.
      Third Place : Dougale MacAlestyr with a 75 lb bow.

      Archery Captain, Shire of Mynydd Seren

      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Harry Billings <humble_archer@...> wrote:
      > If you want to keep it from being a contest of who can shoot the heaviest bow divide the distance by the bow weight.
      > plachoya
      > Ansteorra
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > From: cogworks@...

      > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:26:43 +0000
      > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: New poll for SCA-Archery
      > Personally, I really like the Five Pillars challenge. HOWEVER, I would choose to make one change to it. The Ability to Strike From A Distance becomes a simple matter of bow poundage, i.e. higher draw weight, farther flight of shaft. Yes, yes, I know there are other factors but in reality a 30 pound bow is not going to shoot an arrow as far as a 55 pound bow. So I would suggest a change wherein the archer shoot 3 arrows. Only arrows landing 100 yards or more from the archer count. Any arrow falling short scores a penalty amount. The score is, in inches, the length of a string wrapped around the three shafts at the base where they are stuck in the ground. If they are not stuck in the ground then the measurement is to the shaft's point. This then mandates that the shafts must fly at least 100 yards for distance BUT also land very close to each other instead of being sprayed all over the field. To me this equalizes the issue of bow poundage and better measures the Ability To Strike From A Distance, i.e. can the archer actually hit something at distance or just nuisance them by landing arrows "near" them.
      > While I am not a victim of winter weather as others are, I appreciate the need to keep the challenge within 20 yards. Thus my choice this time around would be the Triangle shot. It seems sneakily diabolical and I like that!
      > cog

    • Jonathas
      An actual soda can is 2.5 diameter by 5.5 tall. The reason I did not use pool noodles is that they are far from consistent in diameter and also they are a
      Message 81 of 81 , Dec 20, 2013
        An actual soda can is 2.5" diameter by 5.5" tall. The reason I did not use pool noodles is that they are far from consistent in diameter and also they are a very geographically seasonal item.  Between these two reasons it would make it difficult for everyone to find them at the same time and in the same size.  So, I went with the 3"x3" squares of 1" thick foam board that can always be found.

        Sorry about the confusion with the bonus, I was trying to play the numbers so the bonus would help but would not run the obscure the score. 

        Not sure how to fix the 10 arrow problem on this shoot.  I was trying to get 2 hits per can plus a few spare arrows.  Fewer cans didn't seem right as that would make a low scoring shoot have even more ties.  For those with too few arrows I guess they could shoot the un-timed ends as two ends of 2 cans each (5 arrows per end), and for the timed end borrow arrows from a friend, then lend their arrows to the friend to shoot the timed end as a second line of archers.

        I've updated the rules for this shoot to help clear them up some, I hope.


        On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:07 AM, <staltus2@...> wrote:


        got some questions on the Pop Cans shoot. 3"x6" seems a bit big, but that is fine. For scoring can you hit the same can multiple times in one end? I guess what I am asking is, it the max score for an untimed end 4 or is it 10+ however many double hits you could muster

        For the timed end, you list 80 minus the time, but your sample is 90. If you can only score once per can, then shouldn't the timer cut off when you fire your 10th arrow or hit the 4th can? If you can score a can more than once then the 10 arrows makes more sense.

        I suspect Johanna's point on 10 arrows will come into play on this as well.

        I really like the idea on this shoot, I would consider using the larger pool noodle instead of squares of foam so you are shooting at cylinders, but it looks like a fun shoot either way.

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