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Re: [SCA-Archery] painting/finishing wood bows

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  • Steitan99@cs.com
    In a message dated 8/1/00 9:46:48 AM Mountain Daylight Time, ... I use either Fieblings Leather Stain or a regular wood stain depending on the colour I want.
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
      In a message dated 8/1/00 9:46:48 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
      ealbrecht@... writes:

      > I just got my first traditional bow and it has no finish, varnish or
      > paint. I'm wondering what would be best to handle the Texas heat and
      > humidity. Any thoughts?
      >

      I use either Fieblings Leather Stain or a regular wood stain depending
      on the colour I want. The Fieblings have a wide range of colors and also
      dyes if you want an artificial look.

      I've found that I prefer using Johnson's Paste Wax to seal my bows/arrows.
      It's a mixture of wax and oils for wood flooring and doesn't leave the bow
      sticky in hot weather as does beeswax or does it get stiff in colder
      temperatures.
      It goes on easily and evenly and the bow/arrows can be touched up easily
      without excessive wax build up. Also you should be able to pick this up in
      most grocery stores for less than $5.

      Steitan Bogenschutz
      al-Barran, Outlands
    • INEZ ADAMS
      Hi, Eric the Black If you will take 1 part boiled linseed oil. 1 part white vinegar and 1 part turpentine. Mix well and put on bow. This hydrates the wood
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
        Hi, Eric the Black

        If you will take 1 part boiled linseed oil.
        1 part white vinegar
        and 1 part turpentine.

        Mix well and put on bow.
        This hydrates the wood and then can be finished off
        with a rubbed paste varnish. If you want it a different
        color then use some stain after hydrating the wood.

        Then any time you want to clean or condition the bow
        just use the same mixture on it and buff off.

        This is the formula that the museums in England
        use on their finest furniture.

        This is also good for the wood furniture in you own castle.

        Ldy Innes
      • INEZ ADAMS
        As far as staining a bow. If you want a brown stain. simply use brown paste shoe polish. It is easy, cheep, and really easy to find. Ldy Innes
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
          As far as staining a bow. If you want a brown stain. simply use
          brown paste shoe polish. It is easy, cheep, and really easy
          to find.

          Ldy Innes
        • Eadric Anstapa
          I have had bowmakers recommend to me lemon oil, linseed oil, and tung oil applied liberally and daily over about a week. The occasionally as needed (after
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
            I have had bowmakers recommend to me lemon oil, linseed oil, and tung oil
            applied liberally and daily over about a week. The occasionally as needed
            (after use).

            An uncle used equal parts linseed oil and tung oil with a touch of kerosene
            (mebbe 10%). I don't know how kerosene would effect some of the glues used
            in laminated bows but it shouldn't hurt a bow made from a single piece of
            wood. My uncle claimed that the kerosene kept away mold, mildew, etc. that
            you might get with just the natural oils.

            Not sealing the bow is always an option as long as you keep it oiled.

            Otherwise paste wax or a matt shellac or urethane sealant would probably
            work.

            Eadric


            Earl Albrecht <ealbrecht@...> said:

            > Heilsa,
            >
            > I just got my first traditional bow and it has no finish, varnish or
            > paint. I'm wondering what would be best to handle the Texas heat and
            > humidity. Any thoughts?
            >
            > Erik the Black
            > (Earl Albrecht)
            > Legio Australis
            > Archery Marshal, La Marche Sauvage
            > Kingdom of Ansteorra
          • Bill Osterheim
            The person who made mine recommended that I rub in a coating of paste wax for the finish. Weems to work very well Polydore
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
              The person who made mine recommended that I rub in a coating of paste wax for
              the finish. Weems to work very well
              Polydore

              Earl Albrecht wrote:

              > Heilsa,
              >
              > I just got my first traditional bow and it has no finish, varnish or
              > paint. I'm wondering what would be best to handle the Texas heat and
              > humidity. Any thoughts?
              >
              > Erik the Black
              > (Earl Albrecht)
              > Legio Australis
              > Archery Marshal, La Marche Sauvage
              > Kingdom of Ansteorra
              >
              > "The Norse ideal was a man of open, generous disposition, a man imbued with
              > qualities of compassion and kindness, not ruthless but firm and fair,
              > even-tempered but capable of passion, physically accomplished and strong in
              > a fight, but not a bully."
              >
              > Magnus Magnusson
              >
              >
              >
              > Get paid to surf at http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=HOK790
              >
              > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
            • jrosswebb1@webtv.net
              Wax should be used liberally on all bows, self bows and laminates if they will be used outdoors in any kind of damp or wet weather. Take this from some one
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
                Wax should be used liberally on all bows, self bows and laminates if
                they will be used outdoors in any kind of damp or wet weather. Take this
                from some one that found out the hard way several years ago with my
                first custom bow( an osage and fiberglass lammy longbow). I was hunting
                in snow and rain and thought that the fiberglass made the bow impervious
                to wet. A few weeks after hunting, the bow de-laminated and when I sent
                it back to the bowyer he told me that it was soggy inside and warned me
                that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.
                He was a gentleman and furnished me with another bow.
                My mundane profession is an artist and consultant to art supply
                manufactures and paint and vanish suppliers. Shellac is ultra sensitive
                to heat and is slightly soluble in water. It should only be used as an
                initial sealer before the varnish or oil rubs go on.
                Any of the drying oils(linseed,walnut,poppy) are traditional and fine.
                If you heat the oil and dissolve beeswax or carnuba wax into it and
                after it has cooled a bit you may dilute it with turpentine or mineral
                spirits(never add while hot!) you can make a fine traditional finish
                which will be somewhat water resistant.
                Most of the contemporary bowyers(John Strunk, Bill Matlock,etc.) like
                Verathane as the final varnish. I know it's not traditional but it works
                great and is relatively easy to use and doesn't suffer from cracking and
                checking as readily as the drying oils. Any good spar varnish will also
                work, but even after the bow is varnished, you want to continue to apply
                wax paste to it. Wax is the best protection against moisture.
                The standard for self bows is to regularly rub them down with an oily
                rag(linseed oil).
                This is a process recommended by Maurice Thompson in"The Witchery of
                Archery"and it is more appealing than the Cherokee practice of rubbing
                their bows down with lard, which darkens and goes sour, but does protect
                against moisture.
                I rub my self bows down with cold pressed linseed oil(the same oil I use
                to make oil paint) and it is the purest form of the oil. I buy it in
                health food stores where it is 80% cheaper than the inferior product
                sold in art supply stores.
                Respectfully,
                Geoffrei St. Albans of Eastwood
              • Lord Conall
                I have a hickory longbow that I smoothed with steel wool and used tung oil on. I also put it on my arrows to help keep the moist out, at least a little. I
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 1, 2000
                  I have a hickory longbow that I smoothed with steel wool and used tung oil
                  on. I also put it on my arrows to help keep the moist out, at least a
                  little. I re-oil my arrows once a year before the season starts. So far,
                  so good...

                  Regards,
                  Conall Riabhach
                  Aquaterra, An Tir


                  > Heilsa,
                  >
                  > I just got my first traditional bow and it has no finish, varnish or
                  > paint. I'm wondering what would be best to handle the Texas heat and
                  > humidity. Any thoughts?
                  >
                  > Erik the Black
                • Greg Christensen
                  ... This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the fiber
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
                    >that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.

                    This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe
                    which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the
                    fiber glass without the epoxy will let water thru though it won't keep
                    shape. If the bow was not sealed on the edges (not belly or back) then the
                    moisture will gain access to the wood and the fiberglass on the belly and
                    back will help to hold it in. Also if the fiberglass is not coated
                    correclty with epoxy and leaves gaps and void which would also let water in.
                    Just remember that most modern boats are made with fiber glass and they
                    don't normally sink.

                    Fiber glass does break down under UV rays (sunlight) so apply wax with UV
                    protector is recommended.

                    Gregge The Archer
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                  • Neil Bensen
                    The fiberglass fabric and resin are not waterproof. The coating on fiberglass boats which makes them waterproof is the gelcoat. That is the final finish
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
                      The fiberglass fabric and resin are not waterproof. The coating on
                      fiberglass boats which makes them waterproof is the gelcoat. That is the final
                      finish which makes the boat smooth, gives it color, and makes it shiny. Once
                      the gelcoat has been breached, the boat can absorb water and fiberglass can
                      "rot". This means it delaminates (freezing often helps this process along) and
                      starts to work one layer against another until it destroys itself. This happens
                      if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric which did
                      not completely absorb the resin.
                      I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded through the
                      gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
                      bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
                      I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof over a
                      long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are replenishing the
                      moisture in the wood.

                      Calum McKay


                      Greg Christensen wrote:

                      > >that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.
                      >
                      > This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe
                      > which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the
                      > fiber glass without the epoxy will let water thru though it won't keep
                      > shape. If the bow was not sealed on the edges (not belly or back) then the
                      > moisture will gain access to the wood and the fiberglass on the belly and
                      > back will help to hold it in. Also if the fiberglass is not coated
                      > correclty with epoxy and leaves gaps and void which would also let water in.
                      > Just remember that most modern boats are made with fiber glass and they
                      > don't normally sink.
                      >
                      > Fiber glass does break down under UV rays (sunlight) so apply wax with UV
                      > protector is recommended.
                      >
                      > Gregge The Archer
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                    • Greg Christensen
                      The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there will be
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
                        The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would
                        be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there
                        will be problems....You are right about the gel coat (a special blend of
                        epoxy resin) if it is removed the fiber glass breaks downs if it is not
                        protected from UV rays or in your case water freezing in the voids. Your
                        also referring to boats made with fiberglass mat material which is not the
                        standard fabric that has a weave to it, but the strands go in all directions
                        like wool felt.

                        I don't know if oiling will actually go through the epoxy resin and
                        fiberglass, but I do know that if there is moister in the air then the wood
                        will pick some up.


                        Gregge the Archer

                        >
                        This happens
                        >if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric
                        >which did
                        >not completely absorb the resin.
                        > I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded
                        >through the
                        >gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
                        >bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
                        > I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof
                        >over a
                        >long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are
                        >replenishing the
                        >moisture in the wood.
                        >
                        >Calum McKay
                        >
                        >
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                      • Neil Bensen
                        I have sought the oppinion of a professional. First, my appollogies. Resin IS waterproof. The issue of removing gelcoat is one of exposing void spaces and
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
                          I have sought the oppinion of a professional.
                          First, my appollogies. Resin IS waterproof. The issue of removing gelcoat
                          is one of exposing void spaces and creating voids between fiberglass fibers.
                          Second, bows may typically have the sides exposed and just have a
                          polyurithane or varnish finish which can break down and allow moisture to enter
                          and/or leave the wood, requiring maintainance periodically.
                          Third, stress fractures in the resin over time and repeated bendings may
                          allow moisture acces to the wood.
                          Fourth, the matting material used in fiberglass construction makes no
                          difference to its abbillity to TRANSPORT water. Fiberglass matting won't absorb
                          water into the fibers, but it will allow water between the fibers. I was not
                          refering to boats constructed with matting or with roving in particular as they
                          bath have the same properties if not fully resinned.
                          I think, however, that we are striving for the same point, which is; if
                          fiberglass is not aplied correctly or breaks down in some way, the wood
                          underneath is at risk. Oiling wood is a good way to restore moisture. If resin
                          begins to crack, a repair to the fiberglass is necessary for the strength of the
                          bow and for the protection of the wood underneath. You may want to seek the aid
                          of a professional in repairing the fiberglass if you are unsure of how to do it
                          properly.

                          Calum McKay

                          Greg Christensen wrote:

                          > The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would
                          > be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there
                          > will be problems....You are right about the gel coat (a special blend of
                          > epoxy resin) if it is removed the fiber glass breaks downs if it is not
                          > protected from UV rays or in your case water freezing in the voids. Your
                          > also referring to boats made with fiberglass mat material which is not the
                          > standard fabric that has a weave to it, but the strands go in all directions
                          > like wool felt.
                          >
                          > I don't know if oiling will actually go through the epoxy resin and
                          > fiberglass, but I do know that if there is moister in the air then the wood
                          > will pick some up.
                          >
                          > Gregge the Archer
                          >
                          > >
                          > This happens
                          > >if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric
                          > >which did
                          > >not completely absorb the resin.
                          > > I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded
                          > >through the
                          > >gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
                          > >bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
                          > > I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof
                          > >over a
                          > >long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are
                          > >replenishing the
                          > >moisture in the wood.
                          > >
                          > >Calum McKay
                          > >
                          > >
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                          >
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                        • jrosswebb1@webtv.net
                          I think we are all on the same page here essentially about fiberglass and its need to be sealed. The use of fiberglass cloth to make bows stopped about 40
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
                            I think we are all on the same page here essentially about
                            fiberglass and its need to be sealed.
                            The use of fiberglass cloth to make bows stopped about 40 years
                            ago and I've seen way too many accidents with them at Pennsic where they
                            delaminate in a very dramatic way, even after a thorough inspection
                            which they passed.They dry out, get old and fatigued, and delamination
                            is almost impossible to detect,until it happens then, BOOM!
                            The type of fiberglass laminations used on most modern bows is
                            where the fibers are laid out it vertical strands(much like the way you
                            lay out sinew for a sinew backing) and then adhered to themselves with
                            the resin,The bowyers purchase these pre-made laminations. These lammys
                            are then adhered to other lammys including the wood ones with a heat
                            cured synthetic resin glue. The way it was explained to me by some of
                            the bowyers I spoke to about my unfortunate accident with my hunting bow
                            in the early 1980's is that microscopically, there are passages between
                            the fibers which will eventually allow moisture through the fibers. The
                            fiberglass and resin are not absorbent but porous, the wood is absorbent
                            and almost acts like a wick.This is why all good bowyers seal all of the
                            bow, not just the edges and recommend that the owners continue to oil or
                            preferably wax on a regular basis.
                            Now before I go out hunting, I thoroughly wax my bows with a
                            beeswax paste, or Johnsons paste wax or Butchers wax and I carry some
                            with me into the woods.
                            On my self bows I use linseed oil.
                            But people PLEASE continue to care for your bows! I don't mean to
                            burst any bubbles here, but just because your bow is made with
                            fiberglass. it is not invulnerable to moisture.
                            Respectfully,
                            Geoffrei St. Albans of Eastwood
                            Canton of Lions End
                            East Kingdom
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