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Any archer that went to Pennsic, require cards?

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  • mike
    In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don t know what other kingdoms have, did
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 15, 2012
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      In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?

      Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of Sundragon
    • Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon
      No cards required at Pennsic. ... Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 15, 2012
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        No cards required at Pennsic.


        > In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers
        > to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since
        > I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require
        > authorization cards at Pennsic?
        >
        > Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion,
        > Archery Champion of Sundragon
        >

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      • mike
        Thank You very much!
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 15, 2012
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          Thank You very much!

          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon" <oscar@...> wrote:
          >
          > No cards required at Pennsic.
          >
          >
          > > In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers
          > > to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since
          > > I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require
          > > authorization cards at Pennsic?
          > >
          > > Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion,
          > > Archery Champion of Sundragon
          > >
          >
          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
          > http://www.nni.com/
          >
        • JDS
          I was there a couple years back No card then equipment inspections yes & a sticker is Johann an tir ... From: Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 15, 2012
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            I was there a couple years back No card then
            equipment inspections yes
            & a sticker

            is
            Johann
            an tir

            ---------- Original Message ----------
            From: "Oscar Van Loveren 000724 recon" <oscar@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Any archer that went to Pennsic, require cards?
            Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 21:26:26 -0400

            No cards required at Pennsic.


            > In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers
            > to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since
            > I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require
            > authorization cards at Pennsic?
            >
            > Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion,
            > Archery Champion of Sundragon
            >

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          • The Greys
            Gulf Wars also does NOT require archer authorizations. cog
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 16, 2012
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              Gulf Wars also does NOT require archer authorizations.

              cog

              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@...> wrote:
              >
              > In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?
              >
              > Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of Sundragon
              >
            • Susan Carroll-Clark
              In fact, none of the kingdoms where I generally attend events (Ealdormere, Middle, AEthelmearc, East) does the authorization card for archers thing. I m
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 16, 2012
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                In fact, none of the kingdoms where I generally attend events
                (Ealdormere, Middle, AEthelmearc, East) does the authorization card
                for archers thing. I'm curious as to what kingdoms do, and what is
                needed to authorize.

                For the record, all of these kingdoms do inspect at each shoot.

                Nicolaa

                On 8/16/12, The Greys <cogworks@...> wrote:
                > Gulf Wars also does NOT require archer authorizations.
                >
                > cog
                >
                > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot
                >> (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other
                >> kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?
                >>
                >> Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of
                >> Sundragon
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > --
                > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Sent from my mobile device
              • mike
                Atenveldt currently has Authorization cards for target archery. I personally think it is silly and should be changed. Authorization to be a range master maybe,
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 18, 2012
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                  Atenveldt currently has Authorization cards for target archery. I personally think it is silly and should be changed. Authorization to be a range master maybe, but not a shooter. And to make it worse it was with your pound limits, so if you tested with say a 45# recurve you could not shoot anything heavier, you could go lighter. And then you would also need to list that 40#longbow, and the 60# (equivalent) crossbow. Sometimes people get over done with this authorization stuff or rules for certain areas.
                  I was asked to see if Pennsic checked anyone, or basically did other Kingdoms did it, I knew of none but want to check and then reported in. So thank you all for helping in this matter.

                  Master Michael of Worcester, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion, of Sundragon


                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Susan Carroll-Clark <nicolaa.de.bracton@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In fact, none of the kingdoms where I generally attend events
                  > (Ealdormere, Middle, AEthelmearc, East) does the authorization card
                  > for archers thing. I'm curious as to what kingdoms do, and what is
                  > needed to authorize.
                  >
                  > For the record, all of these kingdoms do inspect at each shoot.
                  >
                  > Nicolaa
                  >
                  > On 8/16/12, The Greys <cogworks@...> wrote:
                  > > Gulf Wars also does NOT require archer authorizations.
                  > >
                  > > cog
                  > >
                  > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot
                  > >> (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other
                  > >> kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?
                  > >>
                  > >> Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of
                  > >> Sundragon
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Sent from my mobile device
                  >
                • i_griffen
                  Master Michael If you wish to know the reasons for having Archer Authorizations you need to look no further than your own Barony. Wander across the encampment
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 19, 2012
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                    Master Michael

                    If you wish to know the reasons for having Archer Authorizations you need to look no further than your own Barony. Wander across the encampment and ask Mistress Brenna she was the Royal Archer at the time.

                    IG

                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Atenveldt currently has Authorization cards for target archery. I personally think it is silly and should be changed. Authorization to be a range master maybe, but not a shooter. And to make it worse it was with your pound limits, so if you tested with say a 45# recurve you could not shoot anything heavier, you could go lighter. And then you would also need to list that 40#longbow, and the 60# (equivalent) crossbow. Sometimes people get over done with this authorization stuff or rules for certain areas.
                    > I was asked to see if Pennsic checked anyone, or basically did other Kingdoms did it, I knew of none but want to check and then reported in. So thank you all for helping in this matter.
                    >
                    > Master Michael of Worcester, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion, of Sundragon
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Susan Carroll-Clark <nicolaa.de.bracton@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > In fact, none of the kingdoms where I generally attend events
                    > > (Ealdormere, Middle, AEthelmearc, East) does the authorization card
                    > > for archers thing. I'm curious as to what kingdoms do, and what is
                    > > needed to authorize.
                    > >
                    > > For the record, all of these kingdoms do inspect at each shoot.
                    > >
                    > > Nicolaa
                    > >
                    > > On 8/16/12, The Greys <cogworks@> wrote:
                    > > > Gulf Wars also does NOT require archer authorizations.
                    > > >
                    > > > cog
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@> wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >> In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot
                    > > >> (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other
                    > > >> kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of
                    > > >> Sundragon
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Sent from my mobile device
                    > >
                    >
                  • wineandashes
                    I helped marshal just a little at the war (MIT from the Middle) and we did not bother with auth cards when I was on. We inspected all equipment, draw
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 19, 2012
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                      I helped marshal just a little at the war (MIT from the Middle) and we did not bother with auth cards when I was on. We inspected all equipment, draw stability, draw length and projectiles, and tagged everything, but I never once saw a card. Saw a lot of happy shooters, and that was the point. Failed a few. . . but more for shoddy gear than being unable to draw a heavier bow. I don't think I actually saw anyone trying to keep up with too much poundage.

                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mike_94088@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > In Atenveldt, we have authorization cards for our archers to shoot (similar to fighter authorization cards). Since I don't know what other kingdoms have, did they require authorization cards at Pennsic?
                      >
                      > Master Michael of Worcester, OP, Baronial Champion, Archery Champion of Sundragon
                      >
                    • hawkwode
                      Not a direct reply to Master Michaels post. Just his bad luck to be the last one posting before I decided to chime in with my foggy reccolections. While
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 19, 2012
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                        Not a direct reply to Master Michaels' post. Just his bad luck to be the last one posting before I decided to chime in with my foggy reccolections.

                        While hindsight is always 20/20 and trying to use hindsight to figure out what people were thinking when they did something totally wipes out any advantage hindsight gives you-here's my two cents anyway.

                        The Archer's Authorization, (lets call it "AA") had a number of ideas and promoters behind it from my memory. There were those who viewed it as a cut and dried safety issue, train em' cert em' and document em' so's any marshal they run into knows they can operate in a safe manner. Others saw it as a way to gain a statistics toe-hold. "How many archers in Atenveldt?" "Well a really lot I can tell you!" This tells you zero! If you cert em' you can count em'. (the proviso here is the big "IF" you can get proper branch reporting and continuity of records at the Kingdom level) And I am sure, although I hope a minority, of anal control freaks who seek to take the joy out of everything with micro management. Others too, to be sure with their own motivations.

                        When I was a marshal I liked seeing a card. I never refused anybody access to a range because they couldn't produce one. But, I was appreciative of the card-holder and issuer because they had both taken the time for the "AA" process. Which assured me that this gentle knew the rules, (sorta), of safety and could pursue this activity at least at a minimum level of competence. And it demonstrated a small comittment to archery , my favorite SCA activity. No more-no less IMO.

                        Also, maybe, though the glass gets darker and more murky the further I look back, could there have been an, abeit, minor attempt at raising the level of group identity and spirit in the Atenveldt archery community.

                        Anyway, card, or no card give me a short couple of hundred paces, a safe place for my flyers to land, some good company and no reason for the para-medics to show up, IT'S A GOOD DAY!

                        John Fair
                        (beware those anal/mico folks!)

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Master Michael
                        >
                        > If you wish to know the reasons for having Archer Authorizations you need to look no further than your own Barony. Wander across the encampment and ask Mistress Brenna she was the Royal Archer at the time.
                        >
                        > IG
                        >
                        >
                      • bluecat@neo.rr.com
                        Authorization cards for archers have never been required at Pennsic. Even the occasional archer gets a chance to participate in these activities, so it keeps
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 20, 2012
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                          Authorization cards for archers have never been required at Pennsic.

                          Even the 'occasional' archer gets a chance to participate in these activities, so it keeps people who might
                          not take part engaged in the sport.

                          I feel that archery marshals from any Kingdom should have a card to show that authority since they are safety
                          officers. But I do not feel that the archers need an authorization card. The archery safety record speaks for
                          itself.

                          Dirk Edward of Frisia
                        • Siegfried
                          ... An interesting idea. Though realize that in every kingdom I ve been in (ok, only 2) no marshals carried any kind of warrant card. (Not to mention that any
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 20, 2012
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                            > I feel that archery marshals from any Kingdom should have a card to
                            > show that authority since they are safety officers.

                            An interesting idea. Though realize that in every kingdom I've been in
                            (ok, only 2) no marshals carried any kind of warrant card.

                            (Not to mention that any such warrant card could be faked. So only
                            offers a slight feeling of security, over trusting people, and removing
                            them from service if they don't seem able to actually able to marshal)

                            Plus, I'm unsure how each Kingdom does it. But in Atlantia, it would be
                            rather difficult, as warrants can expire due to membership lapsing, or
                            your training class lapsing (which you must retake every few years).
                            And that's for each marshallate type, most of us are cross-trained in
                            multiple disciplines, and your expiration in each varies from when you
                            took the class in that one.

                            So you'd either have a bevvy of cards, one per discipline. Or you'd
                            end up having your one marshallate card end up changing and needing to
                            be sent back out constantly.

                            In Service,
                            Siegfried



                            --
                            Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                            http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
                          • Doug Copley
                            In Ansteorra we have one marshal card and on it are each of the Authorization areas that can be gained. An authorized chivalric fighter carries the same card
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 20, 2012
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                              In Ansteorra we have one marshal card and on it are each of the
                              Authorization areas that can be gained. An authorized chivalric fighter
                              carries the same card as a Target Archery Marshal, it just has different
                              things filled in on it. If you have that Authorization then there is an
                              expiration date on that line. On the reverse side each of the line items
                              that has a date has the persons name that authorized you.

                              Yes it does mean that I have to get a new authorization card on a
                              regular basis, but each authorization is good for several years so it is
                              not too bad. We have a Kingdom Marshalette Secretary that is in charge
                              of the cards in order to keep them straight.

                              Vincenti
                              Ansteorra

                              On 8/20/2012 8:11 AM, Siegfried wrote:
                              > > I feel that archery marshals from any Kingdom should have a card to
                              > > show that authority since they are safety officers.
                              >
                              > An interesting idea. Though realize that in every kingdom I've been in
                              > (ok, only 2) no marshals carried any kind of warrant card.
                              >
                              > (Not to mention that any such warrant card could be faked. So only
                              > offers a slight feeling of security, over trusting people, and removing
                              > them from service if they don't seem able to actually able to marshal)
                              >
                              > Plus, I'm unsure how each Kingdom does it. But in Atlantia, it would be
                              > rather difficult, as warrants can expire due to membership lapsing, or
                              > your training class lapsing (which you must retake every few years).
                              > And that's for each marshallate type, most of us are cross-trained in
                              > multiple disciplines, and your expiration in each varies from when you
                              > took the class in that one.
                              >
                              > So you'd either have a bevvy of cards, one per discipline. Or you'd
                              > end up having your one marshallate card end up changing and needing to
                              > be sent back out constantly.
                              >
                              > In Service,
                              > Siegfried
                              >
                              > --
                              > Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                              > http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
                              >
                            • Siegfried
                              ... I m intrigued by this statement. Who is the person that authorized you in terms of a Marshal? In Atlantia, becoming a marshal (for any discipline)
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 20, 2012
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                                > On the reverse side each of the line items
                                > that has a date has the persons name that authorized you.

                                I'm intrigued by this statement. Who is the person that 'authorized
                                you' in terms of a Marshal?

                                In Atlantia, becoming a marshal (for any discipline) involves taking 1-2
                                classes from authorized instructors (the 1 vs 2 depends on the
                                discipline). And then apprenticing at a minimum of 4 events, while
                                collecting comments on your paperwork by the marshals. Then all that
                                paperwork is sent in (paper or electronic), to the Deputy Earl Marshal
                                of the office you are a marshal-in-training for, at which point, if the
                                Deputy Earl Marshal of X finds your paperwork in order, and likes the
                                comments s/he sees (and perhaps contacts the marshals you apprenticed
                                with, to learn more about you) ...

                                They then let you know that you are approved and the Roster deputy is
                                informed to update the roster.

                                The rosters of warranted marshals are cept online. And (most) MOL's
                                keep an electronic or printed version of the roster with them, so when
                                the marshals check in at the event, they can be verified (if there is a
                                question about it)

                                Siegfried


                                --
                                Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                                http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
                              • mike
                                This started as a request that was made to me, since I was a known Archer and the Baronial Archery Champion, if they had requested Authorization cards at
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 20, 2012
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                                  This started as a request that was made to me, since I was a known Archer and the Baronial Archery Champion, if they had requested Authorization cards at Pennsic. It is not my attempt to get around, to change or any of those things.
                                  I did add my opinion that the rules and the cards were not well done and should be changed or done away with. If you want a card just add the line of Archer to the ones we have, if you want to add crossbow okay I can see that too. But the poundage and certain things to me were not needed. This is the first time I have said anything about the cards and did go along with them. I do see problems with the system, heck my first Archery Range master card was not given to me so I now have to re-authorize for that, something I do not plan to do at this time.
                                  This is not the place to talk about this and if anyone wishes to I would be happy to discuss this with them. I just wanted to know what was done at Pennsic per the request, and for that info Thank Yo
                                  u all.

                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "hawkwode" <klooch1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Not a direct reply to Master Michaels' post. Just his bad luck to be the last one posting before I decided to chime in with my foggy reccolections.
                                  >
                                  > While hindsight is always 20/20 and trying to use hindsight to figure out what people were thinking when they did something totally wipes out any advantage hindsight gives you-here's my two cents anyway.
                                  >
                                  > The Archer's Authorization, (lets call it "AA") had a number of ideas and promoters behind it from my memory. There were those who viewed it as a cut and dried safety issue, train em' cert em' and document em' so's any marshal they run into knows they can operate in a safe manner. Others saw it as a way to gain a statistics toe-hold. "How many archers in Atenveldt?" "Well a really lot I can tell you!" This tells you zero! If you cert em' you can count em'. (the proviso here is the big "IF" you can get proper branch reporting and continuity of records at the Kingdom level) And I am sure, although I hope a minority, of anal control freaks who seek to take the joy out of everything with micro management. Others too, to be sure with their own motivations.
                                  >
                                  > When I was a marshal I liked seeing a card. I never refused anybody access to a range because they couldn't produce one. But, I was appreciative of the card-holder and issuer because they had both taken the time for the "AA" process. Which assured me that this gentle knew the rules, (sorta), of safety and could pursue this activity at least at a minimum level of competence. And it demonstrated a small comittment to archery , my favorite SCA activity. No more-no less IMO.
                                  >
                                  > Also, maybe, though the glass gets darker and more murky the further I look back, could there have been an, abeit, minor attempt at raising the level of group identity and spirit in the Atenveldt archery community.
                                  >
                                  > Anyway, card, or no card give me a short couple of hundred paces, a safe place for my flyers to land, some good company and no reason for the para-medics to show up, IT'S A GOOD DAY!
                                  >
                                  > John Fair
                                  > (beware those anal/mico folks!)
                                  >
                                  > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "i_griffen" <i_griffen@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Master Michael
                                  > >
                                  > > If you wish to know the reasons for having Archer Authorizations you need to look no further than your own Barony. Wander across the encampment and ask Mistress Brenna she was the Royal Archer at the time.
                                  > >
                                  > > IG
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • bluecat@neo.rr.com
                                  Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:11 am (PDT) . Posted by: Siegfried barunsiegfried ... An interesting idea. Though realize that in every kingdom I ve been in (ok, only 2)
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 21, 2012
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                                    Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:11 am (PDT) . Posted by:
                                    "Siegfried" barunsiegfried
                                    > I feel that archery marshals from any Kingdom should have a card to
                                    > show that authority since they are safety officers.

                                    An interesting idea. Though realize that in every kingdom I've been in
                                    (ok, only 2) no marshals carried any kind of warrant card.

                                    >>> The Middle Kingdom has had cards for heavy Marshals for many years. ( Since the early 90's at least) It's
                                    part of the standard authorization card. Archery Marshals - since 2000.

                                    Plus, I'm unsure how each Kingdom does it. But in Atlantia, it would be
                                    rather difficult, as warrants can expire due to membership lapsing, or
                                    your training class lapsing (which you must retake every few years).
                                    And that's for each marshallate type, most of us are cross-trained in
                                    multiple disciplines, and your expiration in each varies from when you
                                    took the class in that one.

                                    So you'd either have a bevvy of cards, one per discipline. Or you'd
                                    end up having your one marshallate card end up changing and needing to
                                    be sent back out constantly.

                                    >>> The Middle uses check boxes next to the respective authorization /discipline for heavy, rapier,
                                    equestrian, and the Youth sections. There is also a separate box for the various Marshallate auths which cover
                                    all the activity areas. This is all on one card. The cards are routinely replaced on a 2 year cycle through
                                    the Kingdom Clerk of the Roster. Copy the card, proof of membership, ID, send along an SASE and it gets sent
                                    back.

                                    All Marshals are expected to keep themselves up to date on rule changes, equipment changes, etc. within the
                                    discipline(s) they hold an authorization to Marshal.

                                    Dirk Edward of Frisia
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