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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style

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  • John Edgerton
    I often make remarks (Witty, I hope.) back and forth with archers that I know on the shooting line. But, I would not do it with someone that I did not know
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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    I often make remarks (Witty, I hope.) back and forth with  archers that I know on the shooting line.  But, I would not do it with someone that I did not know if they minded the talk.  I think it is a matter of personal judgement. I do not think that it should be done in a louder than normal voice.  And If someone on the line complains, I would stop.  For an example of one one set of period conditions for archery see the attached illustration "Hoboken Faire" by Brueghel.    Jon
  • John Edgerton
    There is a larger version that can be further enlarged for looking at the detail at: http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bytype/prints/brueghel/0001/135.JPG Jon
    Message 2 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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      There is a larger version that can be further enlarged for looking at the detail at:


      Jon


      From: John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, July 31, 2012 3:52:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style [1 Attachment]

       


      I often make remarks (Witty, I hope.) back and forth with  archers that I know on the shooting line.  But, I would not do it with someone that I did not know if they minded the talk.  I think it is a matter of personal judgement. I do not think that it should be done in a louder than normal voice.  And If someone on the line complains, I would stop.  For an example of one one set of period conditions for archery see the attached illustration "Hoboken Faire" by Brueghel.    Jon
    • Ld.blackmoon
      greetings to quote OH PAHLEEESE!
      Message 3 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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        greetings
         
        to quote >>>OH PAHLEEESE!<<<   it must be nice to believe ones opinion is the only opinion worth having : )
         
        1st , while you may be perfectly comfortable with a full blown party behind you , and get the jitters when there is nothing but locusts and squirrel's making noise around you,
        ( common in city people, especially now days when going for hours without checking facebook, or e-mail is considered " torture " )
        there are many who feel the exact opposite, they are very comfortable with just nature making noises around them ,
        and a large group of people talking at full volume , teasing, taunting , being witty , or having their cell phones go off in the middle of a competition is a rather large distraction on top of being rude : (
        for a lot of country types, or hunter types , it's comparable to seeing that 10 point buck walking towards you, waiting for that perfect shot, when the guy over the hill stars yelling at his buddy ,
        " hey Dave you see that 10 pointer he's headed your way !! "
        and watching that 10 point just disappear ... poof .. gone ..... its very frustrating at times ...... one off sound, one movement changes what , where , when you shoot, or if you even get to shoot .
        can you still hit the sca target , more than likely , will it be precisely where you wanted it , not very likely... is that frustration going to keep building ,very likely... especially in the heat , or cold, or rain, or the 6 hour baronial
        " champions " tourney , where the novice archers continue to shoot till the final round , and there's 15 min between volleys as they all have to go find their arrows every round .......
         
        2nd, I haven't seen anyone post for total silence at sca events, whispered , or low volume conversations become background noise at events . but doing your best to defeat your opponent with your mouth instead of your bow can be viewed as less than honorable / chivalrous .
         
        3rd, there arises the safety factor as well, with many people heckling the archers, what happens when the archer gets so used to " tuning out the trash talk " that they tune out the marshals as well ??
         
        4th, while some would only show respect at the kingdom level, are we to tell novice archers that its ok to be rude on the line at local and regional levels then complain when they act that way at kingdom level shoots ??
         
        5th, combat archery is a different mentality from hunting / target archery .
         
        6th, at practices , the local archers verbally goof off , tease and " be witty "  , most of the time since no one is really working on royal round / ikac scores.
        but when the mood strikes them to shoot for scores , the games go away while they shoot, and are only present between rounds.
        as it usually becomes an arrow , by arrow challenge to see not just who's going to score gold, but who's going to be closest to center of the gold..
         ( yes we have multiple targets since people were killing each others arrows  quickly with just one butt )   ( ok , so there are 3 arc d'or often at this practice  )
         but even the novice archers pick up the pace and try to shoot their best ( and yes , shooting arrow for arrow against very good archers does seem to help them get better pretty quickly )
         
        7th, we ( collective ) as a community are going through growing pains , trying to prove to the powers that be , that we can mold the type of person , that has great skill, great service, great knowledge, and every plq known or imagined to exist in the sca.
        while still playing children's games with modern equipment, less than standard clothing, and the attitude that " they " should come to " us " and  " give " us something...
        when we really need to be going out and working to show " them " that we really do show honor  & chivalry & skill & knowledge & service ,( and learn plq's )
         both inside the missile community and in the greater society as a whole : (
        the point being that if we can't take ourselves seriously, why should the bod? or the crowns ??
         
        sorry , it seems I wound up climbing on a soap box : /
         
        anyway, this is just one opinion of many, each marshal will have their own opinion, and run their line accordingly.
        I would suggest that people try shooting in many different environments,but ,  if your not comfortable competing in a given tourney due to extra stress, don't shoot in the tourney, go practice,
        go teach ( thought of teaching others how to make arrows ?? bows ?? quivers ?? ), assist the local marshals , work with a novice , or experienced archer to correct issues ,
        if there is nothing you can do on the range , only one range , everyone busy etc. then go work for the group , the kingdom , the society , does gate have enough people ? feast people need help? parking ?  heralding ??
        the list goes on....
         
        well drat , there I go again : ( 
        going back to cleaning so I will stop typing : /
         
        Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
        Arthur
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: The Greys
        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:56 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style

         

        OH PAHLEEESE! Is this the Olympics or the SCA? Does archery not lend itself to innuendos and chatter on the line? Would an archer in period actually be of much value if they asked everyone on the battle field to be "silent so I can shoot the enemy king"? I'm not saying there should be total chaos behind the line, but total silence? Really? Folks we are NOT doing heart or brain surgery here, we are shooting arrows. I think any archer worth the title or carrying a bow should be able to shoot reasonably well and safely and should be able to do so with chatter going on. Now if the Kingdom Archery Championship was on the line perhaps a little silence is in order. Taking arrows out of another archer's quiver during a speed shoot, yeah, that happened to me, NOT GOOD. But a little talking/chatter behind the line? All part of the environment. Archery is zen like so focus, aim small, miss small.

        cog

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      • John Edgerton
        When you view the attachment, click on Large: to see it better. There are many interesting details. Jon ________________________________ From: John Edgerton
        Message 4 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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          When you view the attachment, click on "Large: to see it better. There are many interesting details. 

          Jon


          From: John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, July 31, 2012 3:52:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style [1 Attachment]

           


          I often make remarks (Witty, I hope.) back and forth with  archers that I know on the shooting line.  But, I would not do it with someone that I did not know if they minded the talk.  I think it is a matter of personal judgement. I do not think that it should be done in a louder than normal voice.  And If someone on the line complains, I would stop.  For an example of one one set of period conditions for archery see the attached illustration "Hoboken Faire" by Brueghel.    Jon
        • Chris Ivins
          ________________________________ I have not yet participated in many tournament shoots at events, so I am not as experienced at how much the crowds and archers
          Message 5 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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            I have not yet participated in many tournament shoots at events, so I am not as experienced at how much the crowds and archers do any cheering and/or heckling or talking during shoots.
            During our practices in Adiantum, there is a balance, and it tends to depend on who is shooting, and to some degree the mood of who is shooting. Some times it is so quiet you can hear the bow flex when someone draws to shoot, and yet sometimes we will (of course) comment if a shot was bad or an arrow did something "entirely unexpected" or if someone made an excellent shot. And sometimes we will do some 'general chatting' as we shoot, but sometimes everyone is so intent on focusing on their shots, that we tend to police ourselves and cut back on the chatter so as not to distract them. There is no set "habit", though we tend to be on the quiet side when it is clear that we "REALLY want to practice and improve our aim". The main thing we keep in mind is respect for each other, and if someone needs it QUIET, we honor that need, and when it's time to 'let our hair down' and joke and just shoot to fling some arrows or have a novelty shoot, then it swings that way. It helps to keep the practices interesting and more enjoyable for all participants.

            I liked it enough to show up and just keep score each week, then when I got 'nudged'/shoved into trying shooting, I loved it!
            (Now I almost go into 'withdrawals' when we aren't able to have a scheduled practice each week!)

            Humbly,
                           Iurii


            From:
            Ld.blackmoon <ld.blackmoon@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style



            greetings
             
            to quote >>>OH PAHLEEESE!<<<   it must be nice to believe ones opinion is the only opinion worth having : )
             
            1st , while you may be perfectly comfortable with a full blown party behind you , and get the jitters when there is nothing but locusts and squirrel's making noise around you,
            ( common in city people, especially now days when going for hours without checking facebook, or e-mail is considered " torture " )
            there are many who feel the exact opposite, they are very comfortable with just nature making noises around them ,
            and a large group of people talking at full volume , teasing, taunting , being witty , or having their cell phones go off in the middle of a competition is a rather large distraction on top of being rude : (
            for a lot of country types, or hunter types , it's comparable to seeing that 10 point buck walking towards you, waiting for that perfect shot, when the guy over the hill stars yelling at his buddy ,
            " hey Dave you see that 10 pointer he's headed your way !! "
            and watching that 10 point just disappear ... poof .. gone ..... its very frustrating at times ...... one off sound, one movement changes what , where , when you shoot, or if you even get to shoot .
            can you still hit the sca target , more than likely , will it be precisely where you wanted it , not very likely... is that frustration going to keep building ,very likely... especially in the heat , or cold, or rain, or the 6 hour baronial
            " champions " tourney , where the novice archers continue to shoot till the final round , and there's 15 min between volleys as they all have to go find their arrows every round .......
             
            2nd, I haven't seen anyone post for total silence at sca events, whispered , or low volume conversations become background noise at events . but doing your best to defeat your opponent with your mouth instead of your bow can be viewed as less than honorable / chivalrous .
             
            3rd, there arises the safety factor as well, with many people heckling the archers, what happens when the archer gets so used to " tuning out the trash talk " that they tune out the marshals as well ??
             
            4th, while some would only show respect at the kingdom level, are we to tell novice archers that its ok to be rude on the line at local and regional levels then complain when they act that way at kingdom level shoots ??
             
            5th, combat archery is a different mentality from hunting / target archery .
             
            6th, at practices , the local archers verbally goof off , tease and " be witty "  , most of the time since no one is really working on royal round / ikac scores.
            but when the mood strikes them to shoot for scores , the games go away while they shoot, and are only present between rounds.
            as it usually becomes an arrow , by arrow challenge to see not just who's going to score gold, but who's going to be closest to center of the gold..
             ( yes we have multiple targets since people were killing each others arrows  quickly with just one butt )   ( ok , so there are 3 arc d'or often at this practice  )
             but even the novice archers pick up the pace and try to shoot their best ( and yes , shooting arrow for arrow against very good archers does seem to help them get better pretty quickly )
             
            7th, we ( collective ) as a community are going through growing pains , trying to prove to the powers that be , that we can mold the type of person , that has great skill, great service, great knowledge, and every plq known or imagined to exist in the sca.
            while still playing children's games with modern equipment, less than standard clothing, and the attitude that " they " should come to " us " and  " give " us something...
            when we really need to be going out and working to show " them " that we really do show honor  & chivalry & skill & knowledge & service ,( and learn plq's )
             both inside the missile community and in the greater society as a whole : (
            the point being that if we can't take ourselves seriously, why should the bod? or the crowns ??
             
            sorry , it seems I wound up climbing on a soap box : /
             
            anyway, this is just one opinion of many, each marshal will have their own opinion, and run their line accordingly.
            I would suggest that people try shooting in many different environments,but ,  if your not comfortable competing in a given tourney due to extra stress, don't shoot in the tourney, go practice,
            go teach ( thought of teaching others how to make arrows ?? bows ?? quivers ?? ), assist the local marshals , work with a novice , or experienced archer to correct issues ,
            if there is nothing you can do on the range , only one range , everyone busy etc. then go work for the group , the kingdom , the society , does gate have enough people ? feast people need help? parking ?  heralding ??
            the list goes on....
             
            well drat , there I go again : ( 
            going back to cleaning so I will stop typing : /
             
            Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
            Arthur
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: The Greys
            Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:56 PM
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wicked Wit - SCA Style

             
            OH PAHLEEESE! Is this the Olympics or the SCA? Does archery not lend itself to innuendos and chatter on the line? Would an archer in period actually be of much value if they asked everyone on the battle field to be "silent so I can shoot the enemy king"? I'm not saying there should be total chaos behind the line, but total silence? Really? Folks we are NOT doing heart or brain surgery here, we are shooting arrows. I think any archer worth the title or carrying a bow should be able to shoot reasonably well and safely and should be able to do so with chatter going on. Now if the Kingdom Archery Championship was on the line perhaps a little silence is in order. Taking arrows out of another archer's quiver during a speed shoot, yeah, that happened to me, NOT GOOD. But a little talking/chatter behind the line? All part of the environment. Archery is zen like so focus, aim small, miss small.

            cog

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          • Jim Pickette
            That depends on where you shoot. Calontir Missile Weapons Handbook, Aug 2006, p. 33: 15. Archery is fun, and often a more relaxed sport than any other.
            Message 6 of 9 , Jul 31, 2012
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              That depends on where you shoot.

              Calontir Missile Weapons Handbook, Aug 2006, p. 33:
              "15. Archery is fun, and often a more relaxed sport than any other. Social interaction is a big part of SCA archery and welcome on the range. But remember, do not distract those on the shooting line. It is denagerous and will be strictly forbidden."

              JoO,
              MIT, Calontir

              ---- argentrabbit@... wrote:
              > I just imagine Happy Gilmore. So come on folks let's cheer each other on! Isn't this supposed to be fun? Or would you rather get beet up b
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              > On Jul 31, 2012, at 2:56 PM, "The Greys" <cogworks@...> wrote:
              >
              > > OH PAHLEEESE! Is this the Olympics or the SCA? Does archery not lend itself to innuendos and chatter on the line? Would an archer in period actually be of much value if they asked everyone on the battle field to be "silent so I can shoot the enemy king"? I'm not saying there should be total chaos behind the line, but total silence? Really? Folks we are NOT doing heart or brain surgery here, we are shooting arrows. I think any archer worth the title or carrying a bow should be able to shoot reasonably well and safely and should be able to do so with chatter going on. Now if the Kingdom Archery Championship was on the line perhaps a little silence is in order. Taking arrows out of another archer's quiver during a speed shoot, yeah, that happened to me, NOT GOOD. But a little talking/chatter behind the line? All part of the environment. Archery is zen like so focus, aim small, miss small.
              > >
              > > cog
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
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