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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Merry Men

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  • Ld.blackmoon
    greetings you might think about using a collar of maintenance to suspend the medallion from. 1st , it makes it large enough that it should never get lost.
    Message 1 of 54 , May 20, 2012
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      you might think about using a " collar of maintenance "  to suspend the medallion from.
      1st , it makes it large enough that it should never get lost.
      2nd, the knights can't get touchy, since there's no chain.
      3rd, you can tool up a really nice collar , so people want to wear it.
      4th, it should attract attention ( in a good way ) so that people want to find out what its for.
      as for running or not running ..
      personal opinion, would be , if you run it , you don't compete in it .
      for several reasons, 1, many archers are not very good at creating balanced, challenging shoots,
       2, no matter how fair or honest an archer may be in planning a tourney, if he / she wins again, there will be people whining that the person cheated somehow.
      and I think my biggest problem with defending your title , is if you plan the shoot, and then marshal the entire day ( yes, not every winner would work all day and then shoot in the competition , but the quality archers would ) , it puts the returning winner at a severe dis advantage.
      personally I think that when someone wins, the next tourney should be anywhere except that persons home group. whether or not they get to try to defend the title, it's hard for anyone to whine , if the " winner " has nothing to do with the planning, design, or running of the next tourney.
      it also helps spread the competition around so that its not always in the same place.
      just my opinion , for what it's worth.
      Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Merry Men


      An usable idea.

      The popinjay was often awarded in Central Europe to the winners of archery competitions, schutzenfests. This would be an appropriate emblem for the winner of a major SCA competition. The title schutzenkoning was also commonly used for the winner of these competitions. England was not at all the only country that had archery competitions in Europe. Though "Shooting Victor" in German might be present less problems with the heralds. The popinjay could be awarded with any specific means of suspension.  This would avoid possible problems with the OC, although the knights' chain is an unadorned chain.

      Would we want the current winner to compete in the next competition and maybe continue to win several times in a row.  Or should they be required to help with the setting up and running of the next competition and not compete in it?


      From: James Koch <alchem@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, May 20, 2012 6:50:25 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Merry Men


      Gentlemen & Ladies,
      Suppose we do come up with a format for holding Grand Archery
      Tournaments. Suppose each kingdom has two per year. We could have
      golden popinjay medallions made to be given out as trophies. These
      would be the property of the Kingdoms themselves, paid for by the
      archers through donations, sponsorships, or some similar means. They
      could initially be under the aegis of the archer generals, but could
      eventually be donated as regalia if some proper means of doing so can
      be found. The popinjays would be awarded to the winners of the Grand
      Archery Tournaments and the wearers of the medallions would be known
      as Schutzenkonigs. The medallions could be worn as hat pins or on a
      bronze chain around the neck. The previous is all historically
      documentable (except the hat pin part) in the German speaking areas
      of Europe. Similar competitions were held in other parts of the
      continent as well. Schutzenkonig would not be a Title, capital T, in
      the strict SCA sense. It would instead indicate the tournament
      winner. The Schutzenkonig would retain the medallion and the right
      to wear it until the next Grand Archery Tournament at which time
      he/she would have to defend the title, small t, or relinquish it to
      the new winner. Again, this is all historically documentable. If
      people think historical accuracy might cause a problem in the SCA,
      then we can substitute the German word for "victor" in place of "konig".

      Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"

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    • James Koch
      Nicolaa, ... You have again hit the nail squarely on the head. At this point we need to come up with the tournaments and a place to post the scores. A name
      Message 54 of 54 , May 21, 2012
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        You have again hit the nail squarely on the head. At this point we
        need to come up with the tournaments and a place to post the
        scores. A name for the victors would be nice. As you mentioned, the
        rapier community uses, Don (appropriated from the Spanish), White
        Scarf (made up and alluding to SCA jargon "white belt"), or here in
        the Middle Kingdom Bronze Ring (beats me where they got that). Since
        we are not discussing any sort of peerage we don't really need to
        concern ourselves with the M word. We just need a designation like
        schutzenkonig to indicate the current holder of the popinjay (parrot)
        trophy. Eventually we'll have individuals who have won two or even
        three Grand Archery Tournaments. Sort of a triple crown. There are
        Dukes who have won three Crown Tournaments, so it is possible once we
        have the tournaments in place.

        > > "Maybe we should do likewise and pick a title equivalent to Lord
        > or Lady from a culture that is known for archery."
        > >
        > > i.e.: England, Mongol, Byzenitine, Turk, et. al.
        > >
        > > We have looked there and they don''t seem to suit our purpose.
        >That's because we've been looking for something that says "archer" but
        >is a title used in period.
        >Our rapier brethren didn't pick "Don" because it unambiguously meant
        >"someone who is expert with a rapier" in period. They certainly didn't
        >use "Don" in England--in fact, George Silver would have likely beat you
        >about the head if you tried.
        >The fact is, our titles are mostly compromises--a way to add a period
        >flavour to our game. They mean what we've defined them to mean.
        >To be honest, the more I think about it, I'm not completely sure a title
        >is needed. Something to call the victor of a large inter-kingdom
        >competition would be nice (and Schutzenkonig is perfect for that). But
        >I think what we really want to use is Master/Mistress when that day
        >comes we get a missile weapons peerage--and if we don't pick something
        >now, that will mean less of a dilemma when that day comes.

        Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
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