RE: [SCA-Archery] Re: Appropriate field points for target
- I had shoot said points into Saunders butts.
Out of respect to the owners of said butt, never did it again.
The points don't cut the butt fibber, but did have a tendency
to pull said fibbers out of the butt when pulling the arrows.
The safety netting behind the butts did not really slow the arrows
either, sent them right threw it. Might have been an old net...
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:03:38 +0000
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Appropriate field points for target
It is not so much the tearing up of the target. It is the tearing up of the butt that is usually an issue. Targets are cheap but a Saunders Matt is pretty expensive and you want to get more than a few practises out of them before having to replace them.
One solution is to bring your own butt. This is what one of our crossbowman does. Although he is just shooting standard field points, he is capable of putting six in the inner gold at 20 yards. Do this over and over and the center of the butt goes pretty quick. As such, he brings his own butt and material to restuff the center. He also brings colour photocopies of the target face center (and, yes, they are scaled properly) to replace the center of the target face.
--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "bluecat@..." <bluecat@...> wrote:
> I agree with Arthur. The Ace Classic Medieval Points are nice- but you will pay more when you lose them.
> Frankly- I have never heard of anyone rejecting them at the range. I doubt they would tear up a target any
> more than any other common point. Besides, tearing up targets is what we do.
I have used the Ace points here in Atlantia, no issues. I don't find them any tougher on targets than the field tips as they are basically the same diameter as field tips. OK, maybe a mm or so wider in diameter but nothing compared to a forged bodkin!
As for keeping them on that's a problem I've had with ALL my points, field tips, brass bullet screw ons and glue ons, Ace, etc. This is what I do. Number one NEVER, NEVER, NEVER shoot the center of a new Saunders mat. The centers are wrapped tighter than the outside edges. Saunders says they do that due to wear and the ONLY way to loosen the center is to wear out the outer rings to allow the centers to expand.
Second is how you make your arrows. I soak the points in alcohol then burn the excess off. This removes any machining oil residue. I then take a Dremel tool with a bur head and rough up the inside of the point. Just so a few metal chips fall out. When I taper the shaft I leave it rough. I then use Smooth On epoxy which dries flexible. It's the epoxy bowyers use to glue up their bows. Since I've gone through this process I no longer lose points in any target. Even wood!
Arthur - Thanks for the link. Great reference!
--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
> Are there any types of field points that we can't use in the SCA? Are there regional variances?
> I ask because I was ordering some Ace "classic" points from 3 Rivers, and the guy told me "Now be careful, cuz some areas of the SCA don't like those kind of points, or bodkins, cuz they really tear up a target..."
> I can sort of see bodkins as maybe being a bit iffy (really? aren't we trying to be authentic?) But I always thought those Ace points were an old standard target tip from 'back in the day.' Was surprised he said that, so I thought I'd ask here.
> I am in West Kingdom by the way, and hope to shoot them at events.
> I'll try to load a pic of Ace "classic" points (if I can figure it out), so you'll know what I'm going on about...
- I just rivet my points on. I use a thin wire brad and drill a matching hole through the point and shaft. Then I peen it over and then file it smooth. You have to punch the rivet/brad out to remove the point from the shaft. Never lost a point this way.
- When Ld.blackmoon put fingers to keys it was 5/1/12 10:42 PM...
> ... there used to even be some ( westThat's me.
> kingdom I believe ) video's showing how to hand make your own bodkins in
> a forge : ) ahh found it ; )
I'm an Easterner, start to finish.
Carl West aka Frydherik Eysenkopf, Sagg, &c.
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
Reduce. Reuse. Recover. Refurbish. Repair. Repurpose. Recycle.
- Aelric, I have shot with archers using the ACE points. If the target frame is made of wood, there was some damage. The tips are so much sharper than target tips and bullets that they seem to penetrate deeper into the wood. Then trying to pull them out and not snap the arrow shaft slows things down. you have to gradually work them out, or dig them out with a knife or screwdriver, or go find a pair of pliers. I do allow them, but don't like what they do.A new one a few weeks ago was an archer using a 110lb. warbow, shooting a flat, diamond shaped tip similar to many museum examples. One arrow did hit the target frame (1"x3" pine). Luckily it only splintered the edge off. he wasn't hitting much of anything that day. I did refuse the use of 1 1/2" -2" bodkin tipped arrows.Eduard deWitteAtlantia
From: aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:10 PM
Subject: [SCA-Archery] Appropriate field points for target
Are there any types of field points that we can't use in the SCA? Are there regional variances?
I ask because I was ordering some Ace "classic" points from 3 Rivers, and the guy told me "Now be careful, cuz some areas of the SCA don't like those kind of points, or bodkins, cuz they really tear up a target..."
I can sort of see bodkins as maybe being a bit iffy (really? aren't we trying to be authentic?) But I always thought those Ace points were an old standard target tip from 'back in the day.' Was surprised he said that, so I thought I'd ask here.
I am in West Kingdom by the way, and hope to shoot them at events.
I'll try to load a pic of Ace "classic" points (if I can figure it out), so you'll know what I'm going on about...
- Greetings. I have used the real minibods. Got them from England some years back. I really liked them! I have never had any problem with them coming off. I use JBWeld epoxy for all point installs. Even screw-in adapters. Some fitment is required due to a somewhat smaller socket on some designs. I use emery cloth rolled into cone to fit in socket and a few turns to rough up inside. Followed by a de-greasing using your favorite product. A short squirt of brake cleaning spray or acetone, etc. will do. A good non oily residue product is neeeded. I have very seldom had any point come unstuck using this method. Except for slaming into steel or concrete!! ZERO penetration!! OOPS! It happens to everybody over time! No big deal to install points. Just clean points, fit to shaft as required, put large dab of throughly mixed epoxy on tip of shaft, put point on with twisting motion, seat down with tap to tip of pointed shaft, to really secure joint, make sure point is really on tight. Wipe off any epoxy from joint seam. Stand up w/point down for overnight so epoxy may cure properly. Then just take them out and shoot 'em! Enjoy. Later. YIS, Abner.
- Sir Jon, How do you keep the point 'tight' in this case? The concept is
REALLY intriguing to me.
But it would seem to me, that over time with repeated impact, and
pulling from the target ... that the brad would start to wear it's hole
through the wood slightly.
And that therefore over time, the head would get a hair 'wobbly'. Which
wouldn't be good at all for accuracy.
On 5/2/12 6:22 PM, John Edgerton wrote:
> I just rivet my points on. I use a thin wire brad and drill a matching
> hole through the point and shaft. Then I peen it over and then file it
> smooth. You have to punch the rivet/brad out to remove the point from
> the shaft. Never lost a point this way.
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/