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PVCV bows

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  • John Edgerton
    I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer from Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo section
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 25 12:51 PM
      I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer from Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo section and the folder is "pvc bows".

      Jon

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc

    • richard johnson
      Nice collection. And many disguised to look (from a distance) real. Anyone comment at an event? And would they be legal ? Do they release well? Are they
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 26 8:37 AM
        Nice collection. And many disguised to look (from a distance) real.
        Anyone comment at an event? And would they be 'legal'?

        Do they release well?
        Are they accurate?
        is tillering difficult?

        I've made some bad wood bows that snapped at draw, i imagine that
        this is not a concern with PVC.

        At the very least, it is a curious and fun thing to do.

        I am wondering if you slide a 1/2" inside a 1" pipe, run a hair dryer
        downthe ends to heat up the inside pipe to get a double-strength
        bow??? Or am i over-engineering again.

        On 4/25/12, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
        > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer
        > from
        > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo
        > section
        > and the folder is "pvc bows".
        >
        > Jon
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc


        --
        Rick Johnson
        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
        security will soon find that they have neither."
      • J. Hughes
        Our local combat archery marshal made one of these that appears as a horsebow from any distance. It shoots very well, and has gotten one more person locally
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 26 9:12 AM
          Our local combat archery marshal made one of these that appears as a horsebow from any distance. It shoots very well, and has gotten one more person locally into shooting. We do not know how well it will hold up, but fully except we will be seeing these show up at the shooting lines at events.
           
          Charles O'Connor

          From: richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] PVCV bows

           
          Nice collection. And many disguised to look (from a distance) real.
          Anyone comment at an event? And would they be 'legal'?

          Do they release well?
          Are they accurate?
          is tillering difficult?

          I've made some bad wood bows that snapped at draw, i imagine that
          this is not a concern with PVC.

          At the very least, it is a curious and fun thing to do.

          I am wondering if you slide a 1/2" inside a 1" pipe, run a hair dryer
          downthe ends to heat up the inside pipe to get a double-strength
          bow??? Or am i over-engineering again.

          On 4/25/12, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
          > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer
          > from
          > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo
          > section
          > and the folder is "pvc bows".
          >
          > Jon
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc

          --
          Rick Johnson
          http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
          security will soon find that they have neither."


        • logantheboweyder
          Generally, they have a reputation as a kid s bow only. The PVC commonly used is too thin to make a draw weight for an adult at adult lengths. If you make it
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 26 12:14 PM
            Generally, they have a reputation as a kid's bow only. The PVC commonly used is too thin to make a draw weight for an adult at adult lengths. If you make it short enough to have a good draw weight, the bow is too short to get a good draw length.

            If you use heavier material, the result is a bow with too much weight at the bow tips, and the bow ends up with a huge kick.

            As well, they take on set readily in the summer heat.

            I've no experience with the highly recurved bows, and cannot comment on more complex bow designs.

            Logan

            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
            >
            > Nice collection. And many disguised to look (from a distance) real.
            > Anyone comment at an event? And would they be 'legal'?
            >
            > Do they release well?
            > Are they accurate?
            > is tillering difficult?
            >
            > I've made some bad wood bows that snapped at draw, i imagine that
            > this is not a concern with PVC.
            >
            > At the very least, it is a curious and fun thing to do.
            >
            > I am wondering if you slide a 1/2" inside a 1" pipe, run a hair dryer
            > downthe ends to heat up the inside pipe to get a double-strength
            > bow??? Or am i over-engineering again.
            >
            > On 4/25/12, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
            > > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer
            > > from
            > > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo
            > > section
            > > and the folder is "pvc bows".
            > >
            > > Jon
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
            >
            >
            > --
            > Rick Johnson
            > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
            > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
            > security will soon find that they have neither."
            >
          • Colonel
            Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC pipe (as are many in the collection) are right up there with tunics over bluejeans and running shoes. If they
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 30 8:14 AM
              Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC pipe (as are many in the collection) are right up there with tunics over bluejeans and running shoes. If they start showing up at events and are allowed just because they are not compound bows or have no sights, then it would be time to just remove words like "authenticity" and "history" from SCA vocabulary. And I am sure that the lame defense of, "...not everyone can afford a correct bow..." will be echoed with them.

              Thomas
              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
              >
              > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer from
              > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo section
              > and the folder is "pvc bows".
              >
              > Jon
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
              >
            • John Edgerton
              But, would you have a problem with a pvc bow that does not look like pvc? I too would not like to see ugly pvc bows on the range. But, it is possible to make
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 30 9:56 AM
                But, would you have a problem with a pvc bow that does not look like pvc?  I too would not like to see ugly pvc bows on the range.  But, it is possible to make good looking pvc bows.

                Jon



                From: Colonel <lehrerprofessoren@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, April 30, 2012 8:14:19 AM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: PVCV bows

                 

                Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC pipe (as are many in the collection) are right up there with tunics over bluejeans and running shoes. If they start showing up at events and are allowed just because they are not compound bows or have no sights, then it would be time to just remove words like "authenticity" and "history" from SCA vocabulary. And I am sure that the lame defense of, "...not everyone can afford a correct bow..." will be echoed with them.

                Thomas

                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                >
                > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer from
                > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo section
                > and the folder is "pvc bows".
                >
                > Jon
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
                >

              • James Koch
                Thomas, ... I am with you 100% on this one. But I ll go one step farther. Why even go to the trouble to purchase the tools, the materials, and learn to make
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 30 12:10 PM
                  Thomas,
                  >
                  I am with you 100% on this one.  But I'll go one step farther.  Why even go to the trouble to purchase the tools, the materials, and learn to make a bow out of modern plastic?  Buy a wooden stave and make a proper wooden bow.
                  >
                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                  >
                  >
                  >   At 11:14 AM 4/30/2012, you wrote:
                   

                  Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC pipe (as are many in the collection) are right up there with tunics over bluejeans and running shoes. If they start showing up at events and are allowed just because they are not compound bows or have no sights, then it would be time to just remove words like "authenticity" and "history" from SCA vocabulary. And I am sure that the lame defense of, "...not everyone can afford a correct bow..." will be echoed with them.

                  Thomas
                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I put an example of the many different style bows that the Backyardbowyer from
                  > Youtube makes into the photo section of the group. They are in the photo section
                  > and the folder is "pvc bows".
                  >
                  > Jon
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Archery/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
                  >

                • frode_kettilsson
                  I sympathize with the cost issues for new archers (my first bow was a 30# wrist rattling fiberglass Martin, literally, it was the only kind I could afford),
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 30 3:37 PM
                    I sympathize with the cost issues for new archers (my first bow was a 30# wrist rattling fiberglass Martin, literally, it was the only kind I could afford), and I applaud the creativity that allows a functioning bow to be made from a PVC pipe.  Hoobah!  However,  I have to agree with Thomas and James, too.  The cost in materials for a perfectly serviceable linen backed red oak (or maple) board bow is less that $10, and the tools to make it can be had for as little as $30!  But, for lots of Gentles, this is Mysterious Stuff, fraught with Danger!  So here's a question; we have people who will teach you to shoot, teach you to fight heavy, to fence, to dance, to make cheese, and to properly yell "Oyez!"  Is there anything like this in place to teach people how to make their own archery equipment?  It would, of course, have to pass all the necessary inspections, but with a qualified instructor at their elbow, people often find themselves capable of the most astonishing things!  Trust me, if I can make a bow, anyone can make a bow!
                    Instructors would have to be able to advise and help with wood selection, technique, tool use, finishing, etc., but the same must be true of all the pursuits mentioned above.  And, all of the Marshal's I know can spot bad things, even if they are not bowyers themselves.
                    Is this something that already exists?  Is it something that could (should) be created?  After all, we are an educational entity!
                    Just Askin'
                    Frode

                    >... Buy a wooden stave and make a proper wooden bow...
                    > >
                    > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                    > >
                    > >Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC
                    > >pipe (as are many in the collection) are right
                    > >up there with tunics over bluejeans and running
                    > >shoes...
                  • Guy Taylor
                    I teach beginning bowmaking in my area to anyone interested. Due to limited facilities we do it at events on an as-needed basis or upon request at mundane
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 30 5:10 PM
                      I teach beginning bowmaking in my area to anyone interested. Due to limited facilities we do it at events on an as-needed basis or upon request at mundane archery gatherings I attend.
                      At this year's Great Western War in October I'll have on going bow making demonstration at my booth for the duration of the event. At last year's war a young lady began and finished her first wood bow during the event.
                       
                      Guy

                      The new Greenman Archery website




                      From: frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...>
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, April 30, 2012 3:37:20 PM
                      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: was PVCV bows

                       

                      I sympathize with the cost issues for new archers (my first bow was a 30# wrist rattling fiberglass Martin, literally, it was the only kind I could afford), and I applaud the creativity that allows a functioning bow to be made from a PVC pipe.  Hoobah!  However,  I have to agree with Thomas and James, too.  The cost in materials for a perfectly serviceable linen backed red oak (or maple) board bow is less that $10, and the tools to make it can be had for as little as $30!  But, for lots of Gentles, this is Mysterious Stuff, fraught with Danger!  So here's a question; we have people who will teach you to shoot, teach you to fight heavy, to fence, to dance, to make cheese, and to properly yell "Oyez!"  Is there anything like this in place to teach people how to make their own archery equipment?  It would, of course, have to pass all the necessary inspections, but with a qualified instructor at their elbow, people often find themselves capable of the most astonishing things!  Trust me, if I can make a bow, anyone can make a bow!
                      Instructors would have to be able to advise and help with wood selection, technique, tool use, finishing, etc., but the same must be true of all the pursuits mentioned above.  And, all of the Marshal's I know can spot bad things, even if they are not bowyers themselves.
                      Is this something that already exists?  Is it something that could (should) be created?  After all, we are an educational entity!
                      Just Askin'
                      Frode

                      >... Buy a wooden stave and make a proper wooden bow...
                      > >
                      > Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                      > >
                      > >Bows made from PVC pipe that still look like PVC
                      > >pipe (as are many in the collection) are right
                      > >up there with tunics over bluejeans and running
                      > >shoes...

                    • frode_kettilsson
                      That s great, Guy! And a prouder young lady you ll not see, I ll wager! So, how many bowyers are out there, and where are you located? Frode ... limited ...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 30 6:11 PM
                        That's great, Guy! And a prouder young lady you'll not see, I'll wager!
                        So, how many bowyers are out there, and where are you located?
                        Frode


                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Guy Taylor <guy.taylor@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I teach beginning bowmaking in my area to anyone interested. Due to
                        limited
                        > facilities we do it at events on an as-needed basis or upon
                        request at mundane
                        > archery gatherings I attend.
                        > At this year's Great Western War in October I'll have on going bow
                        making
                        > demonstration at my booth for the duration of the event. At last
                        year's war a
                        > young lady began and finished her first wood bow during the event.
                        > Â
                        > Guy
                        > The new Greenman Archery website
                      • Guy Taylor
                        She did seem to enjoy the experience: http://greenmanarchery.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-western-war-xiv-review.html Here s another young lady getting her
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 30 6:56 PM
                          She did seem to enjoy the experience:
                           
                          Here's another young lady getting her start:
                          And she finished it:
                           
                          Guy 

                          The new Greenman Archery website




                          From: frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...>
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, April 30, 2012 6:11:27 PM
                          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: was PVCV bows

                           

                          That's great, Guy! And a prouder young lady you'll not see, I'll wager!
                          So, how many bowyers are out there, and where are you located?
                          Frode

                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Guy Taylor <guy.taylor@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I teach beginning bowmaking in my area to anyone interested. Due to
                          limited
                          > facilities we do it at events on an as-needed basis or upon
                          request at mundane
                          > archery gatherings I attend.
                          > At this year's Great Western War in October I'll have on going bow
                          making
                          > demonstration at my booth for the duration of the event. At last
                          year's war a
                          > young lady began and finished her first wood bow during the event.
                          > Â
                          > Guy
                          > The new Greenman Archery website

                        • Ld.blackmoon
                          greetings there are 2 in northkeep , ansteorra, 3 if you count crossbows : / ( one just moved away ) just so people know, there are other groups out there that
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 30 8:00 PM
                            greetings
                             
                            there are 2 in northkeep , ansteorra, 3 if you count crossbows : /
                            ( one just moved away )
                             
                            just so people know, there are other groups out there that also teach selfbow and laminate wood bow making .
                            o-jam in northern Oklahoma ( Ansteorra ), and the Ozark selfbow jamboree in marshal Mo.( Calontir " I think " ) are the ones I know of, there must be others out there somewhere else too ; )
                             
                            heaven forbid the heavies hear of this sacrilege , but how many people have made rattan bows  ??
                            I got old rattan given to me and it had cracks in the handle region, so I didn't get to present it to the child archer this year, but next year I plan on having one for both child and youth archery champions at our event ; )
                            ( no they aren't just for kids, we shave them way down to get them light enough, but we scaled a thicker one this year, it scaled out at # 46 @ 28"   )
                             
                            Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
                            Arthur
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:11 PM
                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: was PVCV bows

                             

                            That's great, Guy! And a prouder young lady you'll not see, I'll wager!
                            So, how many bowyers are out there, and where are you located?
                            Frode

                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Guy Taylor <guy.taylor@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I teach beginning bowmaking in my area to anyone interested. Due to
                            limited
                            > facilities we do it at events on an as-needed basis or upon
                            request at mundane
                            > archery gatherings I attend.
                            > At this year's Great Western War in October I'll have on going bow
                            making
                            > demonstration at my booth for the duration of the event. At last
                            year's war a
                            > young lady began and finished her first wood bow during the event.
                            > Â
                            > Guy
                            > The new Greenman Archery website

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                          • James W
                            First choice would be to make a unbacked wooden bow. If you have to back the bow, don t use linen. Instead, use fiberglass cloth tape designed for sealing
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 1, 2012
                              First choice would be to make a unbacked wooden bow.

                              If you have to back the bow, don't use linen. Instead, use fiberglass cloth tape designed for sealing seams in boat building.

                              Just because linen is period doesn't make a linen backed bow period. There are no examples of period bows being backed by linen nor any evidence that I am aware of it ever being done in period. Sinew backing, sure, there's plenty of evidence of that.

                              Fiberglass cloth will dry clear giving the appearance of unbacked bow and, hence, a more period looking bow. In addition, the fiberglass cloth will offer more protection from the bow breaking when using less then ideal wood which is the only point of backing with linen. If one is concerned about fiberglass giving an unfair advantage, that would apply to a proper fiberglass lamination strip but not really to the cloth tape I am suggesting.

                              I realize that on some traditional bowyer forums the use of fiberglass including the cloth tape variety is taboo but fiberglass is not banned in the SCA.

                              James



                              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "frode_kettilsson" <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I sympathize with the cost issues for new archers (my first bow was a
                              > 30# wrist rattling fiberglass Martin, literally, it was the only kind I
                              > could afford), and I applaud the creativity that allows a functioning
                              > bow to be made from a PVC pipe. Hoobah! However, I have to agree with
                              > Thomas and James, too. The cost in materials for a perfectly
                              > serviceable linen backed red oak (or maple) board bow is less that $10,
                              > and the tools to make it can be had for as little as $30! But, for lots
                              > of Gentles, this is Mysterious Stuff, fraught with Danger! So here's a
                              > question; we have people who will teach you to shoot, teach you to fight
                              > heavy, to fence, to dance, to make cheese, and to properly yell "Oyez!"
                              > Is there anything like this in place to teach people how to make their
                              > own archery equipment? It would, of course, have to pass all the
                              > necessary inspections, but with a qualified instructor at their elbow,
                              > people often find themselves capable of the most astonishing things!
                              > Trust me, if I can make a bow, anyone can make a bow!
                              > Instructors would have to be able to advise and help with wood
                              > selection, technique, tool use, finishing, etc., but the same must be
                              > true of all the pursuits mentioned above. And, all of the Marshal's I
                              > know can spot bad things, even if they are not bowyers themselves.
                              > Is this something that already exists? Is it something that could
                              > (should) be created? After all, we are an educational entity!
                              > Just Askin'
                              > Frode
                              >
                            • frode_kettilsson
                              No disagreement there, James! I use linen primarily because it s fairly inexpensive, and easy to glue with wood glue (I prefer Titebond III). And with board
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 1, 2012
                                No disagreement there, James!  I use linen primarily because it's fairly inexpensive, and easy to glue with wood glue (I prefer Titebond III).   And with board bows it's sometimes hard to know for sure what you're getting into, even when the grain looks good.  I've blown up a light linen backed bow (blown up!), but I've also had linen save me from serious injury on a much heavier bow.  A backing is primarily a peace of mind thing, especially while learning.  Linen also gives you a canvas to work on if you're into the decorative thing, and some folks are.  Not necessarily period, although some of the Turkish bows were quite elaborately decorated.
                                But, agreed, an unbacked wood bow is the gold standard.
                                Frode

                                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James W" <jameswolfden@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > First choice would be to make a unbacked wooden bow.
                                >
                                > If you have to back the bow, don't use linen. Instead, use fiberglass cloth tape designed for sealing seams in boat building.
                                >
                                > Just because linen is period doesn't make a linen backed bow period. There are no examples of period bows being backed by linen nor any evidence that I am aware of it ever being done in period. Sinew backing, sure, there's plenty of evidence of that.
                                >
                                > Fiberglass cloth will dry clear giving the appearance of unbacked bow and, hence, a more period looking bow. In addition, the fiberglass cloth will offer more protection from the bow breaking when using less then ideal wood which is the only point of backing with linen. If one is concerned about fiberglass giving an unfair advantage, that would apply to a proper fiberglass lamination strip but not really to the cloth tape I am suggesting.
                                >
                                > I realize that on some traditional bowyer forums the use of fiberglass including the cloth tape variety is taboo but fiberglass is not banned in the SCA.
                                >
                                > James
                                >

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