Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SCA-Archery] Finding a happy medium for crossbow bolts...

Expand Messages
  • Siegfried
    Every crossbow has it s own preferred food I highly recommend, if you can, to sit and make a whole set of bolts. Say at least 3 of any given type. And just
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 29, 2012
      Every crossbow has it's own "preferred food"

      I highly recommend, if you can, to sit and make a whole set of bolts.
      Say at least 3 of any given type. And just play, see what flies right
      out of your bow, and what just works best for you.

      Now that being said, there are a few rules of thumb that tend to make
      stuff 'work no matter what', and that you can start with and then start
      changing:

      * Longer is better. Typically, up to a point (20-22") the longer bolt
      works better because not only of better stabalization (the balance point
      is farther forward proportionally and the fletches are farther
      backwards). But because it tends to give you a better 'sight window'.
      Where it appears you don't have to 'aim so low' when using gap sighting
      (the most typical for crossbowyers)

      * Heaviest tips you can. That means 125gr for 5/16" shafts, 160gr for
      11/32 or 23/64 shafts. The more tip heavy it is, the more stable it
      will be.

      * Bigger fletches. Going with 4" fletches on a 20"+ bolt, gives you a
      TON of stability. Most people (myself included) end up going back down
      the 3" because of lesser drag and more accuracy. But in the beginning,
      stable is better.

      * Helical Fletches. You only have two fletches to impart any spin on
      the bolt. You don't need spin. But spin makes it
      o-so-much-more-stable. Get a decent helical twist on those fletches.
      Or at least a good angle offset.

      Siegfried



      On 3/29/12 11:27 AM, David Nolan wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never
      > owned a crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more
      > recently, the 55# period longbow I made.
      >
      > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the
      > bolts should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
      >
      > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of
      > arguments...that longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the
      > increased mass equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased
      > length factoring wind resistance into less bending/course changing...
      >
      > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
      > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past
      > the 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
      >
      > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and
      > 22" is the place to be...
      >
      > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes?
      > What size and shape fletch do you use?
      >
      > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
      >
      > Aengus O'Nolan
      > Barony of Ayreton
      > Middle Kingdom
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
      http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
    • Colonel
      David, I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 1, 2012
        David,
        I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.

        I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
        I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.

        I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.

        Tom


        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, David Nolan <davnolan88@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never owned a
        > crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more recently, the 55#
        > period longbow I made.
        >
        > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the bolts
        > should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
        >
        > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of arguments...that
        > longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the increased mass
        > equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased length factoring wind
        > resistance into less bending/course changing...
        >
        > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
        > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past the
        > 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
        >
        > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and 22"
        > is the place to be...
        >
        > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes? What
        > size and shape fletch do you use?
        >
        > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
        >
        > Aengus O'Nolan
        > Barony of Ayreton
        > Middle Kingdom
        >
      • Harry Billings
        I will through in one comment as to length you can always make them shorter but longer is a start over. plachoya Ansteorra David, I have been reading all of
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
          I will through in one comment as to length you can always make them shorter but longer is a start over.

          plachoya
          Ansteorra

           

           
          David,
          I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.

          I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
          I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.

          I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.

          Tom



          ExternalClassecxygrp-mkpd8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:010pxExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpecxads10pxExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClass10px10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassff7900ExternalClassecxunderlineExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassecxdiv#ygrp-mlmsgecxygrp-msg10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClasssize:77ExternalClasssize:77ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClasstextareafont:99ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassecxygrp-msgExternalClassecxygrp-msgExternalClassff7900ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClasssize:77ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass
        • James
          Colonel, Would you have a photo of your bolt design? Thanks, JimR
          Message 4 of 13 , May 27, 2012
            Colonel,
            Would you have a photo of your bolt design?
            Thanks,
            JimR

            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@...> wrote:
            >
            > David,
            > I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.
            >
            > I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
            > I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.
            >
            > I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.
            >
            > Tom
            >
            >
            > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, David Nolan <davnolan88@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never owned a
            > > crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more recently, the 55#
            > > period longbow I made.
            > >
            > > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the bolts
            > > should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
            > >
            > > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of arguments...that
            > > longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the increased mass
            > > equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased length factoring wind
            > > resistance into less bending/course changing...
            > >
            > > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
            > > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past the
            > > 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
            > >
            > > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and 22"
            > > is the place to be...
            > >
            > > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes? What
            > > size and shape fletch do you use?
            > >
            > > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
            > >
            > > Aengus O'Nolan
            > > Barony of Ayreton
            > > Middle Kingdom
            > >
            >
          • Colonel
            Jim, I do have a couple of pictures of the bolts. If you will send me an e-mail to ph022768@aol.com I can attach them to a reply. Thomas
            Message 5 of 13 , May 28, 2012
              Jim,
              I do have a couple of pictures of the bolts. If you will send me an e-mail to ph022768@... I can attach them to a reply.

              Thomas

              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimrudholm@...> wrote:
              >
              > Colonel,
              > Would you have a photo of your bolt design?
              > Thanks,
              > JimR
              >
              > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@> wrote:
              > >
              > > David,
              > > I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.
              > >
              > > I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
              > > I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.
              > >
              > > I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.
              > >
              > > Tom
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, David Nolan <davnolan88@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi all,
              > > >
              > > > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never owned a
              > > > crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more recently, the 55#
              > > > period longbow I made.
              > > >
              > > > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the bolts
              > > > should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
              > > >
              > > > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of arguments...that
              > > > longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the increased mass
              > > > equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased length factoring wind
              > > > resistance into less bending/course changing...
              > > >
              > > > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
              > > > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past the
              > > > 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
              > > >
              > > > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and 22"
              > > > is the place to be...
              > > >
              > > > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes? What
              > > > size and shape fletch do you use?
              > > >
              > > > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
              > > >
              > > > Aengus O'Nolan
              > > > Barony of Ayreton
              > > > Middle Kingdom
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Colonel
              I am afraid that might be sent to Yahoo the way it came up. After the @ aol.com
              Message 6 of 13 , May 28, 2012
                I am afraid that might be sent to Yahoo the way it came up. After the @ aol.com

                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimrudholm@...> wrote:
                >
                > Colonel,
                > Would you have a photo of your bolt design?
                > Thanks,
                > JimR
                >
                > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@> wrote:
                > >
                > > David,
                > > I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.
                > >
                > > I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
                > > I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.
                > >
                > > I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.
                > >
                > > Tom
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, David Nolan <davnolan88@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi all,
                > > >
                > > > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never owned a
                > > > crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more recently, the 55#
                > > > period longbow I made.
                > > >
                > > > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the bolts
                > > > should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
                > > >
                > > > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of arguments...that
                > > > longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the increased mass
                > > > equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased length factoring wind
                > > > resistance into less bending/course changing...
                > > >
                > > > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
                > > > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past the
                > > > 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
                > > >
                > > > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and 22"
                > > > is the place to be...
                > > >
                > > > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes? What
                > > > size and shape fletch do you use?
                > > >
                > > > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
                > > >
                > > > Aengus O'Nolan
                > > > Barony of Ayreton
                > > > Middle Kingdom
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Colonel
                OK one last try to have the address look right Papa Hotel, then six digits, at, Able Oscar Lima decimal Charlie Oscar Marine
                Message 7 of 13 , May 28, 2012
                  OK one last try to have the address look right
                  Papa Hotel, then six digits, at, Able Oscar Lima decimal Charlie Oscar
                  Marine

                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimrudholm@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Colonel,
                  > Would you have a photo of your bolt design?
                  > Thanks,
                  > JimR
                  >
                  > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > David,
                  > > I have been reading all of the responses to your questions and it is all very good advice. I do agree with Siegfried, however, in that you should experiment to find out what works for your bow and how you shoot. I have tried several weights and lengths as well so I add what has worked for me.
                  > >
                  > > I have a period bow with a steel prod that pulls between 140# and 150#. I now use 13" (from tip of point to butt of shaft) bolts and they fly straight and true at all the Royal Round distances with very little change in aiming point. I make them with ordinary 3/8th poplar dowels from the hardware store. They are so close to the set arrow measurements that I can use the 125gr. 23/64 field points with no problem. I use the standard tapering tool that works like a pencil sharpener and Ferr-L-Tite for attaching the points. (I tried 3 other glues and kept loosing the points when retrieving the bolts).
                  > > I have experimented with, and now use, poplar fins cut from 3/32 blanks which I cut from sheets. I can stack them and cut out about 30 fins at a time on a band saw and sand the shaped fins, still in a stack, on a drum sander. These are then easily slipped into a slot in the shaft, also cut on the band saw, (for that operation you must use a fence or a wood block clamped into place for a straight guide) and glued into place. They are cut to the Shield design and bolts so made fly perfectly straight. Making them may sound difficult, but I have found that gluing on feather fletching and sewing them down is no picnic either.
                  > >
                  > > I hope this info can help and give you some ideas to try out.
                  > >
                  > > Tom
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, David Nolan <davnolan88@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi all,
                  > > >
                  > > > I've recently acquired a period crossbow of around 110#. I've never owned a
                  > > > crossbow...I normally shoot a 45# modern recurve or, more recently, the 55#
                  > > > period longbow I made.
                  > > >
                  > > > Now that I have a cross, I'm wondering about what kind of length the bolts
                  > > > should be...and what length and shape of fletching.
                  > > >
                  > > > I've been doing some research where I've read a number of arguments...that
                  > > > longer bolts will stabilize better in flight due to the increased mass
                  > > > equaling increased kinetic energy and the increased length factoring wind
                  > > > resistance into less bending/course changing...
                  > > >
                  > > > ...at the same time I've heard arguments that shorter bolts, being less
                  > > > prone to a bent shaft, fly more accurately as long as you don't go past the
                  > > > 'maximum effective range' where they start to tumble.
                  > > >
                  > > > In any event most places I've read say that somewhere between 16" and 22"
                  > > > is the place to be...
                  > > >
                  > > > What have YOU guys experienced? Pros and cons of different bolt sizes? What
                  > > > size and shape fletch do you use?
                  > > >
                  > > > I appreciate the ability to pick your brains, thank you!
                  > > >
                  > > > Aengus O'Nolan
                  > > > Barony of Ayreton
                  > > > Middle Kingdom
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.