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Dumb Question about spiral "wrapping" fletching...

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  • aelric_southlake
    ...and then I promise I ll stop posting for a while! OK, so, I damaged one of my quasi-medieval arrows the other night. That incident, coupled with my desire
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 10, 2012
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      ...and then I promise I'll stop posting for a while!

      OK, so, I damaged one of my quasi-medieval arrows the other night. That incident, coupled with my desire to make these arrows MORE medieval-ish, has led me to declare the damaged arrow as my new EXPERIMENT ARROW. Yikes.

      The arrow in question is from Glacier Traditional Archery, a nice outfit outta MT, that I found through Rudderbows. It's self-nocked and wrapped with artificial sinew, but the fletching does not have the spiral wrap/wind. I've always wanted to figure out how to do that, so I'm going to cut off the artificial sinew (some of which is already falling off), and re-do it in linen thread with the spiral wind. I will learn to fletch my own arrows at some point, but for now, half the work is done since the feathers are already glued on.

      I've always thought the artificial sinew gives it more of a Native American feel than medieval - but I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, so...

      What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?

      Don't worry I'm not gonna shoot this one - but if I can get it to work/look good, I may do it to the rest of them.

      ~ Aelric
    • Janet
      I ve always just used Fletch Tite after I ve spiral wrapped. Not period, though, obviously. Has anyone out there been experimenting with the different natural
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 11, 2012
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        I've always just used Fletch Tite after I've spiral wrapped. Not period, though, obviously.
        Has anyone out there been experimenting with the different natural pitches for fletching arrows? There had been a great article in Primitive Archery magazine a while back on pitch.
        Erriil

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
        >
        > What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?
      • logantheboweyder
        Duco cement. http://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-Multi-Purpose-Household-Glue/dp/B0000A605H Clear, easy to use, available everywhere. cheap (ignore Amazon s
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 13, 2012
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          Duco cement.
          http://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-Multi-Purpose-Household-Glue/dp/B0000A605H

          Clear, easy to use, available everywhere. cheap (ignore Amazon's price;).

          Pitch was the period solution, or so I am made to understand.

          Logan
          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
          >
          > ...and then I promise I'll stop posting for a while!
          >
          > OK, so, I damaged one of my quasi-medieval arrows the other night. That incident, coupled with my desire to make these arrows MORE medieval-ish, has led me to declare the damaged arrow as my new EXPERIMENT ARROW. Yikes.
          >
          > The arrow in question is from Glacier Traditional Archery, a nice outfit outta MT, that I found through Rudderbows. It's self-nocked and wrapped with artificial sinew, but the fletching does not have the spiral wrap/wind. I've always wanted to figure out how to do that, so I'm going to cut off the artificial sinew (some of which is already falling off), and re-do it in linen thread with the spiral wind. I will learn to fletch my own arrows at some point, but for now, half the work is done since the feathers are already glued on.
          >
          > I've always thought the artificial sinew gives it more of a Native American feel than medieval - but I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, so...
          >
          > What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?
          >
          > Don't worry I'm not gonna shoot this one - but if I can get it to work/look good, I may do it to the rest of them.
          >
          > ~ Aelric
          >
        • Taslen
          Aleric,   Post all you want it s good to see you on here! I would agree that Duco cement would work fine from what I have seen.   Gaelen O Gradaigh Midrealm
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 13, 2012
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            Aleric,
             
            Post all you want it's good to see you on here! I would agree that Duco cement would work fine from what I have seen.
             
            Gaelen O'Gradaigh
            Midrealm archery marshal of the field

            From: logantheboweyder <logantheboweyder@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:32 AM
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Dumb Question about spiral "wrapping" fletching...

             
            Duco cement.
            http://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-Multi-Purpose-Household-Glue/dp/B0000A605H

            Clear, easy to use, available everywhere. cheap (ignore Amazon's price;).

            Pitch was the period solution, or so I am made to understand.

            Logan
            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "aelric_southlake" <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
            >
            > ...and then I promise I'll stop posting for a while!
            >
            > OK, so, I damaged one of my quasi-medieval arrows the other night. That incident, coupled with my desire to make these arrows MORE medieval-ish, has led me to declare the damaged arrow as my new EXPERIMENT ARROW. Yikes.
            >
            > The arrow in question is from Glacier Traditional Archery, a nice outfit outta MT, that I found through Rudderbows. It's self-nocked and wrapped with artificial sinew, but the fletching does not have the spiral wrap/wind. I've always wanted to figure out how to do that, so I'm going to cut off the artificial sinew (some of which is already falling off), and re-do it in linen thread with the spiral wind. I will learn to fletch my own arrows at some point, but for now, half the work is done since the feathers are already glued on.
            >
            > I've always thought the artificial sinew gives it more of a Native American feel than medieval - but I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, so...
            >
            > What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?
            >
            > Don't worry I'm not gonna shoot this one - but if I can get it to work/look good, I may do it to the rest of them.
            >
            > ~ Aelric
            >



          • arion12@q.com
            ... There is a reference in Toxophilus to using green silk. This may or may not have been done for Henry the VIII s arrows, but was likely too rich for the war
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 13, 2012
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              > I've always thought the artificial sinew gives it more of a Native American feel than medieval - but I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, so...

              There is a reference in Toxophilus to using green silk. This may or may not have been done for Henry the VIII's arrows, but was likely too rich for the war arrows of earlier generations. Sinew would be a bad choice simply because it would fail in damp conditions. Linen was cheap and readily available.

               

              > What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?

              Several references (Oriental and European) mention hide glue or fish glue for fletching. A couple of generations back, carpenter's glue was essentially hide glue. Now package dry gelatin is actually very high grade hide glue.The challenge with these is again failure when wet. Horace Ford's "Archery: its Theory and Practice", written in the lat 1800s, says this:

              "To preserve the feathers from damp, let a coat of oil paint be laid on between and for 1/8 inch above and below them, and let this be afterward varnished with a mixture of mastic and gold size, taking care that the rib of the feather be well covered." 

              In Hugh Soar's "Secrets of the English War Bow" he mentions that a "water-resistant varnish/adhesive consists of a mixture of 50% dammar resin, 45% beeswax, and 5% very fine verdigris. When heated and thoroughly mixed, this is applied to the shaftment and allowed to cool, when the fletchings are then positioned for binding with waxed thread. Once the binding is complete, the varnish/glue is reactivated, and after straightening, the fletchings are secure." 

              Dammar and beeswax make sense for sticking on the fletching. Verdigris ( a green or blue copper compound that is a poison) was probably added as a means of preventing feather mites, etc from munching the feathers. I take "reactivated" to mean heating. This green color may be where the reference to "green silk" came from in Toxophillis. Verdigris is quite useful in fusing various silver and gold elements of jewelry together. This is a high heat "soldering" process not useful in fletching.

              Arion the Wanderer


            • John Edgerton
              Arion Thank you for a most informative post. Jon, West
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 13, 2012
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                Arion
                Thank you for a most informative post.

                Jon, West



                ------------------------------
                On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 10:35 AM PST arion12@... wrote:

                >> I've always thought the artificial sinew gives it more of a Native American feel than medieval - but I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, so...
                >
                >
                >There is a reference in Toxophilus to using green silk. This may or may not have been done for Henry the VIII's arrows, but was likely too rich for the war arrows of earlier generations. Sinew would be a bad choice simply because it would fail in damp conditions. Linen was cheap and readily available.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >> What kind of glue can I use for this kinda thing? I was heading for a slurry of slightly watered down carpenters glue, but then thought maybe I oughtta ask. And, is the fact that the arrow is already varnished gonna be problematic (wood glue sticks best to raw wood, that is)?
                >
                >Several references (Oriental and European) mention hide glue or fish glue for fletching. A couple of generations back, carpenter's glue was essentially hide glue. Now package dry gelatin is actually very high grade hide glue.The challenge with these is again failure when wet. Horace Ford's "Archery: its Theory and Practice", written in the lat 1800s, says this:
                >
                >"To preserve the feathers from damp, let a coat of oil paint be laid on between and for 1/8 inch above and below them, and let this be afterward varnished with a mixture of mastic and gold size, taking care that the rib of the feather be well covered."
                >
                >In Hugh Soar's "Secrets of the English War Bow" he mentions that a "water-resistant varnish/adhesive consists of a mixture of 50% dammar resin, 45% beeswax, and 5% very fine verdigris. When heated and thoroughly mixed, this is applied to the shaftment and allowed to cool, when the fletchings are then positioned for binding with waxed thread. Once the binding is complete, the varnish/ glue is reactivated, and after straightening , the fletchings are secure."
                >
                >Dammar and beeswax make sense for sticking on the fletching. Verdigris ( a green or blue copper compound that is a poison) was probably added as a means of preventing feather mites, etc from munching the feathers. I take "reactivated" to mean heating. This green color may be where the reference to "green silk" came from in Toxophillis. Verdigris is quite useful in fusing various silver and gold elements of jewelry together. This is a high heat "soldering" process not useful in fletching.
                >
                >
                >
                >Arion the Wanderer
                >
                >
              • aelric_southlake
                OK, Duco cement FOR NOW, elaborate resin compound to be investigated LATER, ha ha ha. I have some fairly succesful results now, pics coming soon... In Hugh
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 19, 2012
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                  OK, Duco cement FOR NOW, elaborate resin compound to be investigated LATER, ha ha ha. I have some fairly succesful results now, pics coming soon...

                  In Hugh Soar's "Secrets of the English War Bow" he mentions that a "water-resistant varnish/adhesive consists of a mixture of 50% dammar resin, 45% beeswax, and 5% very fine verdigris... >

                  > Arion the Wanderer
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