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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Nock points, arrow angle, and some other stuff...

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  • Bill Tait
    A bowyers knot is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string,
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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      A "bowyers knot" is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string, 

      from the SCA target archery rules: a. Strings that have become knotted, or those that have been repaired by knotting strands
      together, shall not be used. This rule does not forbid those string designs that incorporate
      knots, such as a bowyer’s knot, in their original design.


      William

      On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
      Your nocking point will not move vertically due to string stretch; the entire string stretches, not just the top half. :)

      Get yourself a bow square (clips to your string to help measure nocking point location, as well as brace height. Simply eyeballing it will give you inconsistent results. Mine is always the same, within 1mm. Brace height will affect the size of your group, not just the arrow speed.

      William


      On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
       

      Thank you all for the responses! Phew, time to re-think my set-up!

      I noticed that after the nock point was put on my new recurve string, an indentation was left in the string's serving where the arrow nocks. So I should think that if one indeed did make the serving a bit wide, the "nock impression" left behind could serve as a nock point. Interesting. I'll have to find that guy's book, sounds like a great resource.

      But I think the "bit of string and some glue" might just do the trick - should I actually ever figure out how to tune my bow, ha ha ha. Here's a question though: My strings, on both bows, tend to stretch, I'm often winding up my longbow's string to get the brace height 'right.' I know I'm never getting it exactly the same (cuz I eyeball it), and I suspect my recurve's string stretches a bit with every session. So, string nock point is a bit of an ever moving target? That is, better than NOT having it, but something that really needs to be monitored from session to session?

      AND, glad to've heard about the paper tuning! At my local bow range they have these odd contraptions that hold paper in a frame. Had been wondering what those might be for.

      Thanks again, and back to the range for me...



    • David A. Nolan
      I misspoke. I meant the use of a knot as a nock point, not necessarily an actual timber hitch. I ve heard of some archers tying a nock point using an entirely
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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        I misspoke. I meant the use of a knot as a nock point, not necessarily an actual timber hitch.

        I've heard of some archers tying a nock point using an entirely separate piece of serving or even regular thread, and was wondering if anyone had experimented with it in the SCA.

        Aengus

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:

         

        A "bowyers knot" is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string, 


        from the SCA target archery rules: a. Strings that have become knotted, or those that have been repaired by knotting strands
        together, shall not be used. This rule does not forbid those string designs that incorporate
        knots, such as a bowyer’s knot, in their original design.


        William

        On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
        Your nocking point will not move vertically due to string stretch; the entire string stretches, not just the top half. :)

        Get yourself a bow square (clips to your string to help measure nocking point location, as well as brace height. Simply eyeballing it will give you inconsistent results. Mine is always the same, within 1mm. Brace height will affect the size of your group, not just the arrow speed.

        William


        On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
         

        Thank you all for the responses! Phew, time to re-think my set-up!

        I noticed that after the nock point was put on my new recurve string, an indentation was left in the string's serving where the arrow nocks. So I should think that if one indeed did make the serving a bit wide, the "nock impression" left behind could serve as a nock point. Interesting. I'll have to find that guy's book, sounds like a great resource.

        But I think the "bit of string and some glue" might just do the trick - should I actually ever figure out how to tune my bow, ha ha ha. Here's a question though: My strings, on both bows, tend to stretch, I'm often winding up my longbow's string to get the brace height 'right.' I know I'm never getting it exactly the same (cuz I eyeball it), and I suspect my recurve's string stretches a bit with every session. So, string nock point is a bit of an ever moving target? That is, better than NOT having it, but something that really needs to be monitored from session to session?

        AND, glad to've heard about the paper tuning! At my local bow range they have these odd contraptions that hold paper in a frame. Had been wondering what those might be for.

        Thanks again, and back to the range for me...



      • Bill Tait
        A tied nock point is a separate length of string wrapped and tied around the bowstring. You _cannot_ simply tie a knot in the bowstring. An overhand knot will
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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          A tied nock point is a separate length of string wrapped and tied around the bowstring. You _cannot_ simply tie a knot in the bowstring. An overhand knot will reduce the strength of the string by as much as 50%.

          William

          On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David A. Nolan <davnolan88@...> wrote:
           

          I misspoke. I meant the use of a knot as a nock point, not necessarily an actual timber hitch.

          I've heard of some archers tying a nock point using an entirely separate piece of serving or even regular thread, and was wondering if anyone had experimented with it in the SCA.

          Aengus

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:

           

          A "bowyers knot" is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string, 


          from the SCA target archery rules: a. Strings that have become knotted, or those that have been repaired by knotting strands
          together, shall not be used. This rule does not forbid those string designs that incorporate
          knots, such as a bowyer’s knot, in their original design.


          William

          On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
          Your nocking point will not move vertically due to string stretch; the entire string stretches, not just the top half. :)

          Get yourself a bow square (clips to your string to help measure nocking point location, as well as brace height. Simply eyeballing it will give you inconsistent results. Mine is always the same, within 1mm. Brace height will affect the size of your group, not just the arrow speed.

          William


          On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
           

          Thank you all for the responses! Phew, time to re-think my set-up!

          I noticed that after the nock point was put on my new recurve string, an indentation was left in the string's serving where the arrow nocks. So I should think that if one indeed did make the serving a bit wide, the "nock impression" left behind could serve as a nock point. Interesting. I'll have to find that guy's book, sounds like a great resource.

          But I think the "bit of string and some glue" might just do the trick - should I actually ever figure out how to tune my bow, ha ha ha. Here's a question though: My strings, on both bows, tend to stretch, I'm often winding up my longbow's string to get the brace height 'right.' I know I'm never getting it exactly the same (cuz I eyeball it), and I suspect my recurve's string stretches a bit with every session. So, string nock point is a bit of an ever moving target? That is, better than NOT having it, but something that really needs to be monitored from session to session?

          AND, glad to've heard about the paper tuning! At my local bow range they have these odd contraptions that hold paper in a frame. Had been wondering what those might be for.

          Thanks again, and back to the range for me...




        • Guy Taylor
          Yes. Per my original post on this subject, this is what I do. Many, many people in mundane traditional archery do this with fine results. Most use either
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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            Yes. Per my original post on this subject, this is what I do. Many, many people in mundane traditional archery do this with fine results. Most use either dental floss or some serving line.
             
            Guy 

            The new Greenman Archery website




            From: David A. Nolan <davnolan88@...>
            To: "SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, February 9, 2012 10:29:38 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Nock points, arrow angle, and some other stuff...

             

            I misspoke. I meant the use of a knot as a nock point, not necessarily an actual timber hitch.

            I've heard of some archers tying a nock point using an entirely separate piece of serving or even regular thread, and was wondering if anyone had experimented with it in the SCA.

            Aengus

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:

             

            A "bowyers knot" is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string, 


            from the SCA target archery rules: a. Strings that have become knotted, or those that have been repaired by knotting strands
            together, shall not be used. This rule does not forbid those string designs that incorporate
            knots, such as a bowyer’s knot, in their original design.


            William

            On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
            Your nocking point will not move vertically due to string stretch; the entire string stretches, not just the top half. :)

            Get yourself a bow square (clips to your string to help measure nocking point location, as well as brace height. Simply eyeballing it will give you inconsistent results. Mine is always the same, within 1mm. Brace height will affect the size of your group, not just the arrow speed.

            William


            On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
             

            Thank you all for the responses! Phew, time to re-think my set-up!

            I noticed that after the nock point was put on my new recurve string, an indentation was left in the string's serving where the arrow nocks. So I should think that if one indeed did make the serving a bit wide, the "nock impression" left behind could serve as a nock point. Interesting. I'll have to find that guy's book, sounds like a great resource.

            But I think the "bit of string and some glue" might just do the trick - should I actually ever figure out how to tune my bow, ha ha ha. Here's a question though: My strings, on both bows, tend to stretch, I'm often winding up my longbow's string to get the brace height 'right.' I know I'm never getting it exactly the same (cuz I eyeball it), and I suspect my recurve's string stretches a bit with every session. So, string nock point is a bit of an ever moving target? That is, better than NOT having it, but something that really needs to be monitored from session to session?

            AND, glad to've heard about the paper tuning! At my local bow range they have these odd contraptions that hold paper in a frame. Had been wondering what those might be for.

            Thanks again, and back to the range for me...



          • Me
            Some people use a type of monkeys fist knot for the nock point. Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless ... From: David A. Nolan To:
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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              Some people use a type of monkeys fist knot for the nock point.

              Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


              -----Original message-----
              From: "David A. Nolan" <davnolan88@...>
              To:
              "SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent:
              Thu, Feb 9, 2012 18:29:38 GMT+00:00
              Subject:
              Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Nock points, arrow angle, and some other stuff...

               

              I misspoke. I meant the use of a knot as a nock point, not necessarily an actual timber hitch.

              I've heard of some archers tying a nock point using an entirely separate piece of serving or even regular thread, and was wondering if anyone had experimented with it in the SCA.

              Aengus

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:

               

              A "bowyers knot" is (I believe) simply a timber hitch used to secure the bowstring to the limb (at one end only). It is not a knot in the middle of the string, 


              from the SCA target archery rules: a. Strings that have become knotted, or those that have been repaired by knotting strands
              together, shall not be used. This rule does not forbid those string designs that incorporate
              knots, such as a bowyer’s knot, in their original design.


              William

              On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Tait <arwemakere@...> wrote:
              Your nocking point will not move vertically due to string stretch; the entire string stretches, not just the top half. :)

              Get yourself a bow square (clips to your string to help measure nocking point location, as well as brace height. Simply eyeballing it will give you inconsistent results. Mine is always the same, within 1mm. Brace height will affect the size of your group, not just the arrow speed.

              William


              On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aelric_southlake <magnetcoil@...> wrote:
               

              Thank you all for the responses! Phew, time to re-think my set-up!

              I noticed that after the nock point was put on my new recurve string, an indentation was left in the string's serving where the arrow nocks. So I should think that if one indeed did make the serving a bit wide, the "nock impression" left behind could serve as a nock point. Interesting. I'll have to find that guy's book, sounds like a great resource.

              But I think the "bit of string and some glue" might just do the trick - should I actually ever figure out how to tune my bow, ha ha ha. Here's a question though: My strings, on both bows, tend to stretch, I'm often winding up my longbow's string to get the brace height 'right.' I know I'm never getting it exactly the same (cuz I eyeball it), and I suspect my recurve's string stretches a bit with every session. So, string nock point is a bit of an ever moving target? That is, better than NOT having it, but something that really needs to be monitored from session to session?

              AND, glad to've heard about the paper tuning! At my local bow range they have these odd contraptions that hold paper in a frame. Had been wondering what those might be for.

              Thanks again, and back to the range for me...



            • Fritz
              I make my strings by twining (so called flemish splice ) and instead of serving them to add thickness in the nock-and-draw area, I twine in extra string
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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                I make my strings by twining (so called flemish 'splice') and instead of
                serving them to add thickness in the nock-and-draw area, I twine in
                extra string material.

                AFTER the string has stretched-in, to put on my nocking point I loosen
                the string, put a strand of string material _through_ the bowstring
                (between plys), re-string the bow, and then serve/whip the string for
                about 3/4".

                This gives me a place for my forefinger to be _on_ instead of above,
                giving me a little more control of the arrow as I draw, and there's no
                knob of metal trying to tear a groove in my glove.

                --
                Fritz
                Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.


                When Me put fingers to keys it was 2/9/12 3:06 PM...

                >
                >
                > Some people use a type of monkeys fist knot for the nock point.
              • aelric_southlake
                Hey Fritz, that sounds really interesting. My longbow string has NO serving, and though I have no idea HOW to do it, I ve been thinking of adding more string
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 10, 2012
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                  Hey Fritz, that sounds really interesting. My longbow string has NO serving, and though I have no idea HOW to do it, I've been thinking of adding more string thickness to it. I THINK I understood what you were describing, but if you were ever inclined to put up a couple pics, I'd be much obliged. My string is made up of strands, so I think I could do something like you were describing.

                  I also want to round out the interior of the the self-nocks on my arrows, as (I'm assuming from the appearance) they were made on a mechanical jig (by Glacier Traditional Archery), which made a hard 90 degree edge. I think it is eating my string quite a bit. I think a properly sized round file, and a dab of varnish to re-seal it oughtta do it... I dunno...

                  ~ Aelric

                  Fritz Wrote: ...I make my strings by twining (so called flemish 'splice') and instead of serving them to add thickness in the nock-and-draw area, I twine in extra string material. AFTER the string has stretched-in, to put on my nocking point I loosen the string, put a strand of string material _through_ the bowstring...
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