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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

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  • brett wilson
    SCA members using carbon arrows?!   LoCM From: Ron Hockett To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
      SCA members using carbon arrows?!
       
      LoCM

      From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

       
      I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

      On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
       
      For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
      on sale BTW

      http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

      The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

      I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

      Dirk Edward of Frisia

      Dearg,
      The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
      be the same as what you are referring to.

      http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

      http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
      http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

      You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
      acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
      If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

      Ld. Eduard deWitte
      Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
      Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
      Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
      House Askoldsson



    • Bill Tait
      ... Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ... AND Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
        On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM, brett wilson <locm66801@...> wrote:
         

        SCA members using carbon arrows?!
         
        LoCM


        Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ...

        AND

        Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events and for scoring purposes.

        William Arwemakere 
      • ronhockett8@gmail.com
        No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: brett wilson
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
          No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
          Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

          From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
          Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com<SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

           

          SCA members using carbon arrows?!
           
          LoCM

          From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

           
          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
           
          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
          on sale BTW

          http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

          The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

          I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

          Dirk Edward of Frisia

          Dearg,
          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
          be the same as what you are referring to.

          http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

          http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
          http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

          You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
          acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
          If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

          Ld. Eduard deWitte
          Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
          Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
          Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
          House Askoldsson



        • Ron Hockett
          Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
          Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in Balboa Park, San Diego. They were not SCA, both were shooting #50 recurves. Both changed to carbon after having cedar shatter on impact of the target butt. I was shooting a #52 long bow @ 28", 11/32 cedar shafts. I make my own arrows and got the shafts from 3 Rivers, I haven't had any trouble with them before or since. But now I shoot the sitka spruce.

          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <ronhockett8@...> wrote:
          No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
          Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

          From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
          Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

           

          SCA members using carbon arrows?!
           
          LoCM

          From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

           
          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
           
          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
          on sale BTW

          http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

          The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

          I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

          Dirk Edward of Frisia

          Dearg,
          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
          be the same as what you are referring to.

          http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

          http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
          http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

          You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
          acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
          If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

          Ld. Eduard deWitte
          Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
          Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
          Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
          House Askoldsson




        • Caterina Fortuna
          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the
          Message 5 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
            "I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability.<snipped>In
            San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range
            and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less
            than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I
            ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied
            they had and they had switched to carbon."

            ****
            Salutations!

            How is sitka durable? Did you shoot compressed cedar shafts? And which
            ones shattered? Did the arrows (less than a year old) suffer
            temperature changes, get straightened and checked regularly, or get
            shot frequently? I'm also confused about the 'members switched to
            carbon' comment. I find that carbon shoots differently from wood and
            that if I practice with arrows that I can't compete with, I have to
            'get used to' my SCA shafts again. Which defeats the purpose of me
            practicing as I am tired of unlearning bad habits of coping with
            crappy shafts.

            At the beginning of this year, I started shooting with Sitka Spruce
            arrows. Combined with my acquisition of a wonderful and old recurve
            (Ventura), I have attained a royal round average of 90 in the Kingdom
            of AnTir in the open category for 2011. I shot a 35 for 2010. I did
            enjoy shooting sitka as they are light and fly superbly off of a 30#
            bow. Unfortunately, I've shot the spine weight out of 3 dozen sitka
            spruce arrows this year. I would shoot well, then peak, and then my
            accuracy would decline past the month or two of shooting well.

            I kept making excuses for my decline, then buy another dozen shafts
            only to repeat the process. It was only last month when I had my most
            recent set spine weight tested. They had lost about 10# of spine
            weight. I had 6 arrows when I was to start participating in the Winter
            Challenge, when one arrow became suddenly soft behind the point. The
            rest of the (dozen) arrows had either split through the nock or
            shattered or were 'robin hooded'. Between that and the issue with
            brass points, I have since decided to not go with Sitka again. Also,
            brass does not like to stick to wood. In fact, during the defender
            tourney I won, I spent a good deal of time in between ends reglueing
            points back onto my arrows as the targets kept 'eating' them.

            I shot between 2-5 times a week for 20 min to 3 hours this year. This
            does not seem like an extreme amount of practice to me. I would also
            have some rest periods when my health would not be well. I also tried
            switching to a different recurve. This was a mystery that I needed to
            solve. I noticed that my arcuarius brother has been shooting the same
            8-12 arrows all year with no issues. He uses old growth/high altitude
            port orford cedar (from David). Then I found that Master David
            McDougalls, while not in the SCA, is selling arrows from his 'old
            Rivendell stock'. After a few weeks of not shooting during November, I
            shot the arrows David made for me and didn't exceed my 'best scores at
            20 yds' but I did get a beer shot and the arrows clustered fairly
            well. We have some more tuning to do to my bow, but I expect that I
            shall not have equipment issues anytime soon like I have with the
            Sitka Spruce arrows this year.

            --
            YIS,
            Signora Caterina Fortuna
            Argent, a winged natural panther sejant affronty, in chief a rose purpure
            barbed and seeded vert.
            Archery Defender for the Shire of Mountain Edge, AnTir
            Arcuarius to Vadas Ersebet (Barony of Three Mountains)
          • Ron Hockett
            Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot there. The arrows were in
            Message 6 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
              Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I
              live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot
              there. The arrows were in my bow case in luggage. I have spoken to
              several long time bowyers and arrowsmiths and they said that the cedar
              bales were most likely the reason. The arrows were made for the bow
              and had been shot only couple months prior even though they were made
              a year before (I have several hundred arrows made up for my bows, I
              have 8). I have been using the sitka spruce arrows since and had no
              issues, in fact I am back in San Diego and have my bow with me and
              will be shooting this week. No, I have not noticed any change in the
              spline of the spruce (and I do check).
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