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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

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  • Ron Hockett
    I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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      I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

      On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
       

      For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
      on sale BTW

      http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

      The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

      I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

      Dirk Edward of Frisia

      Dearg,
      The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
      be the same as what you are referring to.

      http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

      http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
      http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

      You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
      acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
      If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

      Ld. Eduard deWitte
      Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
      Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
      Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
      House Askoldsson


    • brett wilson
      SCA members using carbon arrows?!   LoCM From: Ron Hockett To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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        SCA members using carbon arrows?!
         
        LoCM

        From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

         
        I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

        On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
         
        For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
        on sale BTW

        http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

        The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

        I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

        Dirk Edward of Frisia

        Dearg,
        The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
        be the same as what you are referring to.

        http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

        http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
        http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

        You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
        acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
        If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

        Ld. Eduard deWitte
        Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
        Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
        Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
        House Askoldsson



      • Bill Tait
        ... Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ... AND Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM, brett wilson <locm66801@...> wrote:
           

          SCA members using carbon arrows?!
           
          LoCM


          Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ...

          AND

          Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events and for scoring purposes.

          William Arwemakere 
        • ronhockett8@gmail.com
          No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: brett wilson
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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            No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
            Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

            From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
            Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com<SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

             

            SCA members using carbon arrows?!
             
            LoCM

            From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

             
            I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

            On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
             
            For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
            on sale BTW

            http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

            The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

            I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

            Dirk Edward of Frisia

            Dearg,
            The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
            be the same as what you are referring to.

            http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

            http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
            http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

            You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
            acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
            If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

            Ld. Eduard deWitte
            Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
            Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
            Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
            House Askoldsson



          • Ron Hockett
            Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
            Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in Balboa Park, San Diego. They were not SCA, both were shooting #50 recurves. Both changed to carbon after having cedar shatter on impact of the target butt. I was shooting a #52 long bow @ 28", 11/32 cedar shafts. I make my own arrows and got the shafts from 3 Rivers, I haven't had any trouble with them before or since. But now I shoot the sitka spruce.

            On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <ronhockett8@...> wrote:
            No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
            Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

            From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
            Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

             

            SCA members using carbon arrows?!
             
            LoCM

            From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

             
            I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

            On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
             
            For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
            on sale BTW

            http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

            The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

            I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

            Dirk Edward of Frisia

            Dearg,
            The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
            be the same as what you are referring to.

            http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

            http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
            http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

            You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
            acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
            If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

            Ld. Eduard deWitte
            Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
            Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
            Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
            House Askoldsson




          • Caterina Fortuna
            I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the
            Message 6 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
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              "I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability.<snipped>In
              San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range
              and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less
              than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I
              ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied
              they had and they had switched to carbon."

              ****
              Salutations!

              How is sitka durable? Did you shoot compressed cedar shafts? And which
              ones shattered? Did the arrows (less than a year old) suffer
              temperature changes, get straightened and checked regularly, or get
              shot frequently? I'm also confused about the 'members switched to
              carbon' comment. I find that carbon shoots differently from wood and
              that if I practice with arrows that I can't compete with, I have to
              'get used to' my SCA shafts again. Which defeats the purpose of me
              practicing as I am tired of unlearning bad habits of coping with
              crappy shafts.

              At the beginning of this year, I started shooting with Sitka Spruce
              arrows. Combined with my acquisition of a wonderful and old recurve
              (Ventura), I have attained a royal round average of 90 in the Kingdom
              of AnTir in the open category for 2011. I shot a 35 for 2010. I did
              enjoy shooting sitka as they are light and fly superbly off of a 30#
              bow. Unfortunately, I've shot the spine weight out of 3 dozen sitka
              spruce arrows this year. I would shoot well, then peak, and then my
              accuracy would decline past the month or two of shooting well.

              I kept making excuses for my decline, then buy another dozen shafts
              only to repeat the process. It was only last month when I had my most
              recent set spine weight tested. They had lost about 10# of spine
              weight. I had 6 arrows when I was to start participating in the Winter
              Challenge, when one arrow became suddenly soft behind the point. The
              rest of the (dozen) arrows had either split through the nock or
              shattered or were 'robin hooded'. Between that and the issue with
              brass points, I have since decided to not go with Sitka again. Also,
              brass does not like to stick to wood. In fact, during the defender
              tourney I won, I spent a good deal of time in between ends reglueing
              points back onto my arrows as the targets kept 'eating' them.

              I shot between 2-5 times a week for 20 min to 3 hours this year. This
              does not seem like an extreme amount of practice to me. I would also
              have some rest periods when my health would not be well. I also tried
              switching to a different recurve. This was a mystery that I needed to
              solve. I noticed that my arcuarius brother has been shooting the same
              8-12 arrows all year with no issues. He uses old growth/high altitude
              port orford cedar (from David). Then I found that Master David
              McDougalls, while not in the SCA, is selling arrows from his 'old
              Rivendell stock'. After a few weeks of not shooting during November, I
              shot the arrows David made for me and didn't exceed my 'best scores at
              20 yds' but I did get a beer shot and the arrows clustered fairly
              well. We have some more tuning to do to my bow, but I expect that I
              shall not have equipment issues anytime soon like I have with the
              Sitka Spruce arrows this year.

              --
              YIS,
              Signora Caterina Fortuna
              Argent, a winged natural panther sejant affronty, in chief a rose purpure
              barbed and seeded vert.
              Archery Defender for the Shire of Mountain Edge, AnTir
              Arcuarius to Vadas Ersebet (Barony of Three Mountains)
            • Ron Hockett
              Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot there. The arrows were in
              Message 7 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
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                Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I
                live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot
                there. The arrows were in my bow case in luggage. I have spoken to
                several long time bowyers and arrowsmiths and they said that the cedar
                bales were most likely the reason. The arrows were made for the bow
                and had been shot only couple months prior even though they were made
                a year before (I have several hundred arrows made up for my bows, I
                have 8). I have been using the sitka spruce arrows since and had no
                issues, in fact I am back in San Diego and have my bow with me and
                will be shooting this week. No, I have not noticed any change in the
                spline of the spruce (and I do check).
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