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Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

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  • Edward deWitt
    Dearg,   The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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      Dearg,
        The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring to. 
      http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/    and      
      http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm    and this
      http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085
      You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are acceptable.  I believe you can use laminated shafts.  Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.

      If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

      Ld. Eduard deWitte
      Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
      Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
      Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
      House Askoldsson


      From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
      To: Midrealm Archery <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>; SCA Archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:50 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

       
      Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
       
      In service,
      Dearg.
      >>------>

      Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
      (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
      11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
      a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
      Target Archery Marshal.
      Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
      The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
      Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
      The Barony of Fenix
      Paid SCA member since 2003


      When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.


    • Taslen
      Hmm would make for some interesting flaming arrows .   Gaelen O Grady Midrealm archery marshal of the field From: George Bottorf
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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        Hmm would make for some interesting "flaming arrows".
         
        Gaelen O'Grady
        Midrealm archery marshal of the field

        From: George Bottorf <PLUNKETTARCHER@...>
        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

         
        You mean like long presto logs??


      • bluecat@neo.rr.com
        For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts on sale BTW
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
          on sale BTW

          http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

          The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

          I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

          Dirk Edward of Frisia



          Dearg,
          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
          be the same as what you are referring to.

          http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

          http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
          http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

          You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
          acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
          If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

          Ld. Eduard deWitte
          Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
          Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
          Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
          House Askoldsson
        • Ron Hockett
          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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            I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

            On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
             

            For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
            on sale BTW

            http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

            The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

            I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

            Dirk Edward of Frisia

            Dearg,
            The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
            be the same as what you are referring to.

            http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

            http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
            http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

            You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
            acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
            If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

            Ld. Eduard deWitte
            Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
            Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
            Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
            House Askoldsson


          • brett wilson
            SCA members using carbon arrows?!   LoCM From: Ron Hockett To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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              SCA members using carbon arrows?!
               
              LoCM

              From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

               
              I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

              On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
               
              For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
              on sale BTW

              http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

              The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

              I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

              Dirk Edward of Frisia

              Dearg,
              The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
              be the same as what you are referring to.

              http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

              http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
              http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

              You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
              acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
              If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

              Ld. Eduard deWitte
              Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
              Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
              Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
              House Askoldsson



            • Bill Tait
              ... Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ... AND Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM, brett wilson <locm66801@...> wrote:
                 

                SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                 
                LoCM


                Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ...

                AND

                Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events and for scoring purposes.

                William Arwemakere 
              • ronhockett8@gmail.com
                No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: brett wilson
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                  No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                  From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                  Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com<SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                   

                  SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                   
                  LoCM

                  From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                   
                  I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                  On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                   
                  For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                  on sale BTW

                  http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                  The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                  I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                  Dirk Edward of Frisia

                  Dearg,
                  The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                  be the same as what you are referring to.

                  http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                  http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                  You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                  acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                  If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                  Ld. Eduard deWitte
                  Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                  Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                  Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                  House Askoldsson



                • Ron Hockett
                  Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                  Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in Balboa Park, San Diego. They were not SCA, both were shooting #50 recurves. Both changed to carbon after having cedar shatter on impact of the target butt. I was shooting a #52 long bow @ 28", 11/32 cedar shafts. I make my own arrows and got the shafts from 3 Rivers, I haven't had any trouble with them before or since. But now I shoot the sitka spruce.

                  On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <ronhockett8@...> wrote:
                  No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                  From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                  Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                   

                  SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                   
                  LoCM

                  From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                   
                  I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                  On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                   
                  For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                  on sale BTW

                  http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                  The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                  I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                  Dirk Edward of Frisia

                  Dearg,
                  The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                  be the same as what you are referring to.

                  http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                  http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                  You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                  acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                  If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                  Ld. Eduard deWitte
                  Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                  Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                  Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                  House Askoldsson




                • Caterina Fortuna
                  I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the
                  Message 9 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
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                    "I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability.<snipped>In
                    San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range
                    and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less
                    than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I
                    ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied
                    they had and they had switched to carbon."

                    ****
                    Salutations!

                    How is sitka durable? Did you shoot compressed cedar shafts? And which
                    ones shattered? Did the arrows (less than a year old) suffer
                    temperature changes, get straightened and checked regularly, or get
                    shot frequently? I'm also confused about the 'members switched to
                    carbon' comment. I find that carbon shoots differently from wood and
                    that if I practice with arrows that I can't compete with, I have to
                    'get used to' my SCA shafts again. Which defeats the purpose of me
                    practicing as I am tired of unlearning bad habits of coping with
                    crappy shafts.

                    At the beginning of this year, I started shooting with Sitka Spruce
                    arrows. Combined with my acquisition of a wonderful and old recurve
                    (Ventura), I have attained a royal round average of 90 in the Kingdom
                    of AnTir in the open category for 2011. I shot a 35 for 2010. I did
                    enjoy shooting sitka as they are light and fly superbly off of a 30#
                    bow. Unfortunately, I've shot the spine weight out of 3 dozen sitka
                    spruce arrows this year. I would shoot well, then peak, and then my
                    accuracy would decline past the month or two of shooting well.

                    I kept making excuses for my decline, then buy another dozen shafts
                    only to repeat the process. It was only last month when I had my most
                    recent set spine weight tested. They had lost about 10# of spine
                    weight. I had 6 arrows when I was to start participating in the Winter
                    Challenge, when one arrow became suddenly soft behind the point. The
                    rest of the (dozen) arrows had either split through the nock or
                    shattered or were 'robin hooded'. Between that and the issue with
                    brass points, I have since decided to not go with Sitka again. Also,
                    brass does not like to stick to wood. In fact, during the defender
                    tourney I won, I spent a good deal of time in between ends reglueing
                    points back onto my arrows as the targets kept 'eating' them.

                    I shot between 2-5 times a week for 20 min to 3 hours this year. This
                    does not seem like an extreme amount of practice to me. I would also
                    have some rest periods when my health would not be well. I also tried
                    switching to a different recurve. This was a mystery that I needed to
                    solve. I noticed that my arcuarius brother has been shooting the same
                    8-12 arrows all year with no issues. He uses old growth/high altitude
                    port orford cedar (from David). Then I found that Master David
                    McDougalls, while not in the SCA, is selling arrows from his 'old
                    Rivendell stock'. After a few weeks of not shooting during November, I
                    shot the arrows David made for me and didn't exceed my 'best scores at
                    20 yds' but I did get a beer shot and the arrows clustered fairly
                    well. We have some more tuning to do to my bow, but I expect that I
                    shall not have equipment issues anytime soon like I have with the
                    Sitka Spruce arrows this year.

                    --
                    YIS,
                    Signora Caterina Fortuna
                    Argent, a winged natural panther sejant affronty, in chief a rose purpure
                    barbed and seeded vert.
                    Archery Defender for the Shire of Mountain Edge, AnTir
                    Arcuarius to Vadas Ersebet (Barony of Three Mountains)
                  • Ron Hockett
                    Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot there. The arrows were in
                    Message 10 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
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                      Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I
                      live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot
                      there. The arrows were in my bow case in luggage. I have spoken to
                      several long time bowyers and arrowsmiths and they said that the cedar
                      bales were most likely the reason. The arrows were made for the bow
                      and had been shot only couple months prior even though they were made
                      a year before (I have several hundred arrows made up for my bows, I
                      have 8). I have been using the sitka spruce arrows since and had no
                      issues, in fact I am back in San Diego and have my bow with me and
                      will be shooting this week. No, I have not noticed any change in the
                      spline of the spruce (and I do check).
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