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Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

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  • Dearg Ailfredsson
    Unfortunately no, But they are really heavy, you need to aim at the tree tops to hit anything on the ground at 20 yards and very ridged like shooting a steel
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
      Unfortunately no,
      But they are really heavy, you need to aim at the tree tops to hit anything on the ground at 20 yards and very ridged like shooting a steel rod. Not very good arrows in my opinion but someone had them at practice today and we are just trying to find out if they are legal for SCA use.
      If I find anything I will share.
       
      In service,
      Dearg.
      >>------>

      Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
      (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
      11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
      a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
      Target Archery Marshal.
      Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
      The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
      Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
      The Barony of Fenix
      Paid SCA member since 2003


      When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.

      From: Guy Taylor <guy.taylor@...>
      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

       
      I don't know the answer to your question but I'm quite curious about these arrows. Do you have any further information on them? Website, etc.?
       
      Guy
      Greenman Archery

      --- On Sun, 12/4/11, Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...> wrote:

      From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question
      To: "Midrealm Archery" <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>, "SCA Archery" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:50 PM

       
      Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
       
      In service,
      Dearg.
      >>------>

      Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
      (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
      11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
      a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
      Target Archery Marshal.
      Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
      The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
      Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
      The Barony of Fenix
      Paid SCA member since 2003


      When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.


    • Edward deWitt
      Dearg,   The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
        Dearg,
          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring to. 
        http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/    and      
        http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm    and this
        http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085
        You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are acceptable.  I believe you can use laminated shafts.  Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.

        If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

        Ld. Eduard deWitte
        Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
        Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
        Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
        House Askoldsson


        From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
        To: Midrealm Archery <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>; SCA Archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:50 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

         
        Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
         
        In service,
        Dearg.
        >>------>

        Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
        (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
        11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
        a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
        Target Archery Marshal.
        Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
        The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
        Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
        The Barony of Fenix
        Paid SCA member since 2003


        When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.


      • Taslen
        Hmm would make for some interesting flaming arrows .   Gaelen O Grady Midrealm archery marshal of the field From: George Bottorf
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
          Hmm would make for some interesting "flaming arrows".
           
          Gaelen O'Grady
          Midrealm archery marshal of the field

          From: George Bottorf <PLUNKETTARCHER@...>
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

           
          You mean like long presto logs??


        • bluecat@neo.rr.com
          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts on sale BTW
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
            For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
            on sale BTW

            http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

            The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

            I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

            Dirk Edward of Frisia



            Dearg,
            The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
            be the same as what you are referring to.

            http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

            http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
            http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

            You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
            acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
            If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

            Ld. Eduard deWitte
            Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
            Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
            Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
            House Askoldsson
          • Ron Hockett
            I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
              I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

              On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
               

              For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
              on sale BTW

              http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

              The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

              I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

              Dirk Edward of Frisia

              Dearg,
              The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
              be the same as what you are referring to.

              http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

              http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
              http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

              You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
              acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
              If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

              Ld. Eduard deWitte
              Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
              Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
              Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
              House Askoldsson


            • brett wilson
              SCA members using carbon arrows?!   LoCM From: Ron Hockett To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                 
                LoCM

                From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                 
                I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                 
                For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                on sale BTW

                http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                Dirk Edward of Frisia

                Dearg,
                The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                be the same as what you are referring to.

                http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                Ld. Eduard deWitte
                Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                House Askoldsson



              • Bill Tait
                ... Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ... AND Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                  On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM, brett wilson <locm66801@...> wrote:
                   

                  SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                   
                  LoCM


                  Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ...

                  AND

                  Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events and for scoring purposes.

                  William Arwemakere 
                • ronhockett8@gmail.com
                  No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: brett wilson
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                    No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                    From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                    Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com<SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                     

                    SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                     
                    LoCM

                    From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                     
                    I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                    On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                     
                    For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                    on sale BTW

                    http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                    The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                    I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                    Dirk Edward of Frisia

                    Dearg,
                    The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                    be the same as what you are referring to.

                    http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                    http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                    You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                    acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                    If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                    Ld. Eduard deWitte
                    Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                    Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                    Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                    House Askoldsson



                  • Ron Hockett
                    Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                    Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in Balboa Park, San Diego. They were not SCA, both were shooting #50 recurves. Both changed to carbon after having cedar shatter on impact of the target butt. I was shooting a #52 long bow @ 28", 11/32 cedar shafts. I make my own arrows and got the shafts from 3 Rivers, I haven't had any trouble with them before or since. But now I shoot the sitka spruce.

                    On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <ronhockett8@...> wrote:
                    No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                    From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                    Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                     

                    SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                     
                    LoCM

                    From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                     
                    I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                    On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                     
                    For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                    on sale BTW

                    http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                    The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                    I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                    Dirk Edward of Frisia

                    Dearg,
                    The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                    be the same as what you are referring to.

                    http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                    http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                    You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                    acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                    If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                    Ld. Eduard deWitte
                    Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                    Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                    Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                    House Askoldsson




                  • Caterina Fortuna
                    I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the
                    Message 10 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
                      "I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability.<snipped>In
                      San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range
                      and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less
                      than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I
                      ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied
                      they had and they had switched to carbon."

                      ****
                      Salutations!

                      How is sitka durable? Did you shoot compressed cedar shafts? And which
                      ones shattered? Did the arrows (less than a year old) suffer
                      temperature changes, get straightened and checked regularly, or get
                      shot frequently? I'm also confused about the 'members switched to
                      carbon' comment. I find that carbon shoots differently from wood and
                      that if I practice with arrows that I can't compete with, I have to
                      'get used to' my SCA shafts again. Which defeats the purpose of me
                      practicing as I am tired of unlearning bad habits of coping with
                      crappy shafts.

                      At the beginning of this year, I started shooting with Sitka Spruce
                      arrows. Combined with my acquisition of a wonderful and old recurve
                      (Ventura), I have attained a royal round average of 90 in the Kingdom
                      of AnTir in the open category for 2011. I shot a 35 for 2010. I did
                      enjoy shooting sitka as they are light and fly superbly off of a 30#
                      bow. Unfortunately, I've shot the spine weight out of 3 dozen sitka
                      spruce arrows this year. I would shoot well, then peak, and then my
                      accuracy would decline past the month or two of shooting well.

                      I kept making excuses for my decline, then buy another dozen shafts
                      only to repeat the process. It was only last month when I had my most
                      recent set spine weight tested. They had lost about 10# of spine
                      weight. I had 6 arrows when I was to start participating in the Winter
                      Challenge, when one arrow became suddenly soft behind the point. The
                      rest of the (dozen) arrows had either split through the nock or
                      shattered or were 'robin hooded'. Between that and the issue with
                      brass points, I have since decided to not go with Sitka again. Also,
                      brass does not like to stick to wood. In fact, during the defender
                      tourney I won, I spent a good deal of time in between ends reglueing
                      points back onto my arrows as the targets kept 'eating' them.

                      I shot between 2-5 times a week for 20 min to 3 hours this year. This
                      does not seem like an extreme amount of practice to me. I would also
                      have some rest periods when my health would not be well. I also tried
                      switching to a different recurve. This was a mystery that I needed to
                      solve. I noticed that my arcuarius brother has been shooting the same
                      8-12 arrows all year with no issues. He uses old growth/high altitude
                      port orford cedar (from David). Then I found that Master David
                      McDougalls, while not in the SCA, is selling arrows from his 'old
                      Rivendell stock'. After a few weeks of not shooting during November, I
                      shot the arrows David made for me and didn't exceed my 'best scores at
                      20 yds' but I did get a beer shot and the arrows clustered fairly
                      well. We have some more tuning to do to my bow, but I expect that I
                      shall not have equipment issues anytime soon like I have with the
                      Sitka Spruce arrows this year.

                      --
                      YIS,
                      Signora Caterina Fortuna
                      Argent, a winged natural panther sejant affronty, in chief a rose purpure
                      barbed and seeded vert.
                      Archery Defender for the Shire of Mountain Edge, AnTir
                      Arcuarius to Vadas Ersebet (Barony of Three Mountains)
                    • Ron Hockett
                      Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot there. The arrows were in
                      Message 11 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
                        Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I
                        live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot
                        there. The arrows were in my bow case in luggage. I have spoken to
                        several long time bowyers and arrowsmiths and they said that the cedar
                        bales were most likely the reason. The arrows were made for the bow
                        and had been shot only couple months prior even though they were made
                        a year before (I have several hundred arrows made up for my bows, I
                        have 8). I have been using the sitka spruce arrows since and had no
                        issues, in fact I am back in San Diego and have my bow with me and
                        will be shooting this week. No, I have not noticed any change in the
                        spline of the spruce (and I do check).
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