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Arrow question

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  • Dearg Ailfredsson
    Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?   In service, Dearg. ... Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) Wolf Red beard 11th century
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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      Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
       
      In service,
      Dearg.
      >>------>

      Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
      (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
      11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
      a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
      Target Archery Marshal.
      Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
      The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
      Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
      The Barony of Fenix
      Paid SCA member since 2003


      When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.
    • Guy Taylor
      I don t know the answer to your question but I m quite curious about these arrows. Do you have any further information on them? Website, etc.?   Guy Greenman
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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        I don't know the answer to your question but I'm quite curious about these arrows. Do you have any further information on them? Website, etc.?
         
        Guy
        Greenman Archery

        --- On Sun, 12/4/11, Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...> wrote:

        From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question
        To: "Midrealm Archery" <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>, "SCA Archery" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:50 PM

         
        Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
         
        In service,
        Dearg.
        >>------>

        Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
        (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
        11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
        a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
        Target Archery Marshal.
        Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
        The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
        Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
        The Barony of Fenix
        Paid SCA member since 2003


        When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.
      • George Bottorf
        You mean like long presto logs??
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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          You mean like long presto logs??
        • Dearg Ailfredsson
          Unfortunately no, But they are really heavy, you need to aim at the tree tops to hit anything on the ground at 20 yards and very ridged like shooting a steel
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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            Unfortunately no,
            But they are really heavy, you need to aim at the tree tops to hit anything on the ground at 20 yards and very ridged like shooting a steel rod. Not very good arrows in my opinion but someone had them at practice today and we are just trying to find out if they are legal for SCA use.
            If I find anything I will share.
             
            In service,
            Dearg.
            >>------>

            Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
            (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
            11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
            a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
            Target Archery Marshal.
            Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
            The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
            Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
            The Barony of Fenix
            Paid SCA member since 2003


            When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.

            From: Guy Taylor <guy.taylor@...>
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:00 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

             
            I don't know the answer to your question but I'm quite curious about these arrows. Do you have any further information on them? Website, etc.?
             
            Guy
            Greenman Archery

            --- On Sun, 12/4/11, Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...> wrote:

            From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question
            To: "Midrealm Archery" <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>, "SCA Archery" <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:50 PM

             
            Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
             
            In service,
            Dearg.
            >>------>

            Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
            (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
            11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
            a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
            Target Archery Marshal.
            Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
            The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
            Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
            The Barony of Fenix
            Paid SCA member since 2003


            When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.


          • Edward deWitt
            Dearg,   The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 4, 2011
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              Dearg,
                The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not be the same as what you are referring to. 
              http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/    and      
              http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm    and this
              http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085
              You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are acceptable.  I believe you can use laminated shafts.  Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.

              If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

              Ld. Eduard deWitte
              Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
              Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
              Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
              House Askoldsson


              From: Dearg Ailfredsson <thefenixhuntsman@...>
              To: Midrealm Archery <MidrealmArchery@yahoogroups.com>; SCA Archery <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:50 PM
              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

               
              Are pressed wood arrows SCA legal?
               
              In service,
              Dearg.
              >>------>

              Lord Úlfr Rauðskeggr (Dearg) AOA CSO
              (Yule-fur Rowth-skegg-er) "Wolf Red beard"
              11th century Gall Gaidhel [gall guy-yell]
              a.k.a. "Irish Northman"
              Target Archery Marshal.
              Current Fenix Baronial A&S Champion.
              The award of the Risen Fenix for service in archery.
              Leather work, Archery, Period Hunting
              The Barony of Fenix
              Paid SCA member since 2003


              When you stop challenging yourself, that's as good as you'll ever be.


            • Taslen
              Hmm would make for some interesting flaming arrows .   Gaelen O Grady Midrealm archery marshal of the field From: George Bottorf
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                Hmm would make for some interesting "flaming arrows".
                 
                Gaelen O'Grady
                Midrealm archery marshal of the field

                From: George Bottorf <PLUNKETTARCHER@...>
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Arrow question

                 
                You mean like long presto logs??


              • bluecat@neo.rr.com
                For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts on sale BTW
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                  For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                  on sale BTW

                  http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                  The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                  I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                  Dirk Edward of Frisia



                  Dearg,
                  The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                  be the same as what you are referring to.

                  http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                  http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                  You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                  acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                  If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                  Ld. Eduard deWitte
                  Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                  Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                  Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                  House Askoldsson
                • Ron Hockett
                  I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                    I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                    On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                     

                    For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                    on sale BTW

                    http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                    The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                    I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                    Dirk Edward of Frisia

                    Dearg,
                    The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                    be the same as what you are referring to.

                    http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                    http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                    You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                    acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                    If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                    Ld. Eduard deWitte
                    Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                    Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                    Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                    House Askoldsson


                  • brett wilson
                    SCA members using carbon arrows?!   LoCM From: Ron Hockett To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                      SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                       
                      LoCM

                      From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                       
                      I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                      On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                       
                      For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                      on sale BTW

                      http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                      The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                      I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                      Dirk Edward of Frisia

                      Dearg,
                      The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                      be the same as what you are referring to.

                      http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                      http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                      http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                      You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                      acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                      If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                      Ld. Eduard deWitte
                      Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                      Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                      Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                      House Askoldsson



                    • Bill Tait
                      ... Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ... AND Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                        On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM, brett wilson <locm66801@...> wrote:
                         

                        SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                         
                        LoCM


                        Umm, Nowhere did he say they were sca archers. See, he _travels for work_ ...

                        AND

                        Using carbon arrows for training is not against the rules. Only at events and for scoring purposes.

                        William Arwemakere 
                      • ronhockett8@gmail.com
                        No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: brett wilson
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
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                          No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                          Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                          From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                          Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com<SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                          ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                           

                          SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                           
                          LoCM

                          From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                           
                          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                           
                          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                          on sale BTW

                          http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                          The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                          I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                          Dirk Edward of Frisia

                          Dearg,
                          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                          be the same as what you are referring to.

                          http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                          http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                          http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                          You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                          acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                          If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                          Ld. Eduard deWitte
                          Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                          Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                          Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                          House Askoldsson



                        • Ron Hockett
                          Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
                          Sorry to confuse anyone. I was using a private range in San Diego that is open to the public (it has to be open to public because it is on the park grounds) in Balboa Park, San Diego. They were not SCA, both were shooting #50 recurves. Both changed to carbon after having cedar shatter on impact of the target butt. I was shooting a #52 long bow @ 28", 11/32 cedar shafts. I make my own arrows and got the shafts from 3 Rivers, I haven't had any trouble with them before or since. But now I shoot the sitka spruce.

                          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <ronhockett8@...> wrote:
                          No. I use whatever range that is available at the time. This range is in Balboa Park.
                          Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                          From: brett wilson <locm66801@...>
                          Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:18:37 -0800 (PST)
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                           

                          SCA members using carbon arrows?!
                           
                          LoCM

                          From: Ron Hockett <ronhockett8@...>
                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 10:26 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Arrow question

                           
                          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. I travel for work and take my bow with me. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied they had and they had switched to carbon.

                          On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM, bluecat@... <bluecat@...> wrote:
                           
                          For the amount of money involved, I think I would stay with cedar. 3 Rivers has the Port Orford Cedar shafts
                          on sale BTW

                          http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.html

                          The newspaper article for compressed shafts is from 1958.

                          I'd like to try the yellow cedar shafts mentioned on Stickbow and see how durable they are!

                          Dirk Edward of Frisia

                          Dearg,
                          The only references I can find about pressed (compressed) wood arrows is Ramin and Forgewood. They may not
                          be the same as what you are referring to.

                          http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/ and

                          http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/ARROWMAKING/wood.cfm and this
                          http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19581023&id=ovRVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691,4459085

                          You can run a shaft through a compression sleeve to get a harder shaft of PO Cedar or Sitka and they are
                          acceptable. I believe you can use laminated shafts. Several archery suppliers sale the Ramin as kids arrows.
                          If they are acceptable, just make sure they are safe for the bow poundage.

                          Ld. Eduard deWitte
                          Order of the Kings Missiliers, Atlantia
                          Order of the Yeoman of the Sacred Stone
                          Archery Marshal, Barony or Sacred Stone
                          House Askoldsson




                        • Caterina Fortuna
                          I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability. In San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range and some of the
                          Message 13 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
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                            "I have started using Sitka Spruce for their durability.<snipped>In
                            San Diego I shot into wet cedar compressed targets at the achery range
                            and some of the shafts shattered (5 out of 12), the shafts were less
                            than a year old with no other issues. Not so with the sitka spruce. I
                            ask a couple of the members there if they had issues and they replied
                            they had and they had switched to carbon."

                            ****
                            Salutations!

                            How is sitka durable? Did you shoot compressed cedar shafts? And which
                            ones shattered? Did the arrows (less than a year old) suffer
                            temperature changes, get straightened and checked regularly, or get
                            shot frequently? I'm also confused about the 'members switched to
                            carbon' comment. I find that carbon shoots differently from wood and
                            that if I practice with arrows that I can't compete with, I have to
                            'get used to' my SCA shafts again. Which defeats the purpose of me
                            practicing as I am tired of unlearning bad habits of coping with
                            crappy shafts.

                            At the beginning of this year, I started shooting with Sitka Spruce
                            arrows. Combined with my acquisition of a wonderful and old recurve
                            (Ventura), I have attained a royal round average of 90 in the Kingdom
                            of AnTir in the open category for 2011. I shot a 35 for 2010. I did
                            enjoy shooting sitka as they are light and fly superbly off of a 30#
                            bow. Unfortunately, I've shot the spine weight out of 3 dozen sitka
                            spruce arrows this year. I would shoot well, then peak, and then my
                            accuracy would decline past the month or two of shooting well.

                            I kept making excuses for my decline, then buy another dozen shafts
                            only to repeat the process. It was only last month when I had my most
                            recent set spine weight tested. They had lost about 10# of spine
                            weight. I had 6 arrows when I was to start participating in the Winter
                            Challenge, when one arrow became suddenly soft behind the point. The
                            rest of the (dozen) arrows had either split through the nock or
                            shattered or were 'robin hooded'. Between that and the issue with
                            brass points, I have since decided to not go with Sitka again. Also,
                            brass does not like to stick to wood. In fact, during the defender
                            tourney I won, I spent a good deal of time in between ends reglueing
                            points back onto my arrows as the targets kept 'eating' them.

                            I shot between 2-5 times a week for 20 min to 3 hours this year. This
                            does not seem like an extreme amount of practice to me. I would also
                            have some rest periods when my health would not be well. I also tried
                            switching to a different recurve. This was a mystery that I needed to
                            solve. I noticed that my arcuarius brother has been shooting the same
                            8-12 arrows all year with no issues. He uses old growth/high altitude
                            port orford cedar (from David). Then I found that Master David
                            McDougalls, while not in the SCA, is selling arrows from his 'old
                            Rivendell stock'. After a few weeks of not shooting during November, I
                            shot the arrows David made for me and didn't exceed my 'best scores at
                            20 yds' but I did get a beer shot and the arrows clustered fairly
                            well. We have some more tuning to do to my bow, but I expect that I
                            shall not have equipment issues anytime soon like I have with the
                            Sitka Spruce arrows this year.

                            --
                            YIS,
                            Signora Caterina Fortuna
                            Argent, a winged natural panther sejant affronty, in chief a rose purpure
                            barbed and seeded vert.
                            Archery Defender for the Shire of Mountain Edge, AnTir
                            Arcuarius to Vadas Ersebet (Barony of Three Mountains)
                          • Ron Hockett
                            Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot there. The arrows were in
                            Message 14 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
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                              Since I make arrows a have a spline tester, and check them often. I
                              live in the Seattle area and flew to San Diego for work and shot
                              there. The arrows were in my bow case in luggage. I have spoken to
                              several long time bowyers and arrowsmiths and they said that the cedar
                              bales were most likely the reason. The arrows were made for the bow
                              and had been shot only couple months prior even though they were made
                              a year before (I have several hundred arrows made up for my bows, I
                              have 8). I have been using the sitka spruce arrows since and had no
                              issues, in fact I am back in San Diego and have my bow with me and
                              will be shooting this week. No, I have not noticed any change in the
                              spline of the spruce (and I do check).
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