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FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

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  • Joe Klovance
    Here is a reply from the California Fish and Game Gryffyd
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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      Here is a reply from the California Fish and Game

      Gryffyd


      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:49:27 -0700
      > From: PNelms@...
      > To: DIRECTOR@...; jklovanc@...
      > CC: LCBROWN@...
      > Subject: Re: Moulted Gull Feathers
      >
      > Joe: No, the pieces and parts of birds are protected by F&G laws the same as the complete bird, e.g., a feather is a "bird" in F&G law. Gulls are protected by both CA and U.S. laws and possession is prohibited except for research or under other specific permits the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service may issue.
      >
      > Phil Nelms
      > Enforcement Division
      >
      > >>> Joe Klovance <jklovanc@...> 8/22/2011 1:09 PM >>>
      >
      > Is it permissible to collect Gull feathers that are found on the ground left there by moulting gulls?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Joe Klovance
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • richard johnson
      I suspectt hat they do this because too many white indians think that they need hawk and eagle feathers and wings in their indian-like rituals. And really,
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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        I suspectt hat they do this because too many 'white indians' think that they need hawk and eagle feathers and wings in their 'indian-like' rituals.
        And really, how can you prove that that eagle wing you are carrying around sojme sweat-lodge or at a lecture came from a road-kill or one you shot/poached last week?
        I suppose that we are back to farmed geese feathers.
         

         
        On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Joe Klovance <jklovanc@...> wrote:
         

        Here is a reply from the California Fish and Game

        Gryffyd


        > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:49:27 -0700
        > From: PNelms@...
        > To: DIRECTOR@...; jklovanc@...
        > CC: LCBROWN@...
        > Subject: Re: Moulted Gull Feathers
        >
        > Joe: No, the pieces and parts of birds are protected by F&G laws the same as the complete bird, e.g., a feather is a "bird" in F&G law. Gulls are protected by both CA and U.S. laws and possession is prohibited except for research or under other specific permits the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service may issue.
        >
        > Phil Nelms
        > Enforcement Division
        >
        > >>> Joe Klovance <jklovanc@...> 8/22/2011 1:09 PM >>>
        >
        > Is it permissible to collect Gull feathers that are found on the ground left there by moulting gulls?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Joe Klovance
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




        --
        Rick Johnson
        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
      • George Bottorf
        Greetings to all. I have been trying to follow this train of thought of using some other birds feathers for fletching. Susposedly to save some $. It seems all
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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          Greetings to all. I have been trying to follow this train of thought of using some other birds feathers for fletching. Susposedly to save some $. It seems all the interesting feathers are on protected species! And if you find a substitute feather from a domestic or farm raised bird, you will probably need at least 45-50 to make a dozen shafts! Not all feathers are useable. And not to mention the labor to strip the quills and grind, etc. as needed. Remember these arrows are not 1-shot war arrows! They are target arrows. If you value your time, it is generally cheaper to purchase fletching, instead of making them. I was just looking at 3 Rivers offerings. Yes, they are up in price as to the past. Yes, shafting too. Yes, bows too. Yes, even gasoline too!!! I found their prices to go from $38.80/100 for full length, solid color,LorR. $6/doz. to $68.25/100 for F.L. barred, $$9.30/doz. both Truflight. AMG brand about same $, +/- little bit. $68.25/100, $9.30/doz.  F.L. Bright Srtipe Truflight. Plus shipping, I would guess. I am sure almost all places who sell feathers are about the same? There is another brand around, too. Check around for best prices and maybe lower shipping. Go look for yourselves. It's all out online. FREE too. Looking, that is! If one was really determined to invest all that time and energy to save a couple of bucks, then proceed with my blessing. In all my time in the SCA, I have always used commercial fletching(turkey). Always perform the way they are susposed to. I have made many dozens of reguiar arrows, long shafts for my Han crossbow, and various other shafts as needed/ required.  After all this not inconsiderable time, I AM NOT going to stop using what has proved to work so far!! Enough for now. YIS, Abner de Plunkett. West Kingdom archer and crossbowman.  
              
        • Sam Wise
          Ah.... but you miss part of the point of this thought experiment. It s the thought of experimenting and finding out if/why other feathers will/will not work.
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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            Ah.... but you miss part of the point of this thought experiment. It's
            the thought of experimenting and finding out if/why other feathers
            will/will not work. I would love for someone to try a few different
            birds' feathers just to see the report on how well they worked.

            A thought just came to mind. If my memory serves correct, paper and
            thin leather were used to fletch crossbow bolts. Other than paper was
            expensive; Why didn't this catch on for other types of bows?
            Samuel

            On 8/23/11 6:32 PM, George Bottorf wrote:
            >
            >
            If
            > one was really determined to invest all that time and energy to save a
            > couple of bucks, then proceed with my blessing. In all my time in the
            > SCA, I have always used commercial fletching(turkey). Always perform the
            > way they are susposed to. I have made many dozens of reguiar arrows,
            > long shafts for my Han crossbow, and various other shafts as needed/
            > required. After all this not inconsiderable time, I AM NOT going to stop
            > using what has proved to work so far!! Enough for now. YIS, Abner de
            > Plunkett. West Kingdom archer and crossbowman.
            >
          • John Edgerton
            I think it may have been parchment rather than paper and thin strips of wood in addition to feathers. Jon
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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              I think it may have been parchment rather than paper and thin strips of wood in addition to feathers.

              Jon
              On Aug 23, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Sam Wise wrote:

              > Ah.... but you miss part of the point of this thought experiment. It's
              > the thought of experimenting and finding out if/why other feathers
              > will/will not work. I would love for someone to try a few different
              > birds' feathers just to see the report on how well they worked.
              >
              > A thought just came to mind. If my memory serves correct, paper and
              > thin leather were used to fletch crossbow bolts. Other than paper was
              > expensive; Why didn't this catch on for other types of bows?
              > Samuel
            • James Koch
              Using gull feathers was never intended to save me money. Whenever I undertake to make anything I have to price my time at $30 per hour. That is how much I
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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                Using gull feathers was never intended to save me money.  Whenever I undertake to make anything I have to price my time at $30 per hour.  That is how much I could be making working in my shop on an item for sale.  I'd likely spend a couple hours just gathering gull feathers, when the drive to the beach is included.  So the feathers will likely cost me $60 plus gas to obtain.  My intent is to make arrows and crossbow bolts from local materials.  Wood is not a problem since it is available locally in abundance.  We do have wild turkeys locally, but most live in the parks which are heavily patrolled by the rangers.  It is forbidden to remove anything from the parks.  Gulls inhabit the shores of Lake Erie by the millions and their feathers litter the public beaches.  Hence my interest.   
                >
                Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                >
                >At 06:32 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                 

                Greetings to all. I have been trying to follow this train of thought of using some other birds feathers for fletching. Susposedly to save some $. It seems all the interesting feathers are on protected species! And if you find a substitute feather from a domestic or farm raised bird, you will probably need at least 45-50 to make a dozen shafts! Not all feathers are useable. And not to mention the labor to strip the quills and grind, etc. as needed. Remember these arrows are not 1-shot war arrows! They are target arrows. If you value your time, it is generally cheaper to purchase fletching, instead of making them. I was just looking at 3 Rivers offerings. Yes, they are up in price as to the past. Yes, shafting too. Yes, bows too. Yes, even gasoline too!!! I found their prices to go from $38.80/100 for full length, solid color,LorR. $6/doz. to $68.25/100 for F.L. barred, $$9.30/doz. both Truflight. AMG brand about same $, &#43
                ;/- little bit. $68.25/100, $9.30/doz.  F.L. Bright Srtipe Truflight. Plus shipping, I would guess. I am sure almost all places who sell feathers are about the same? There is another brand around, too. Check around for best prices and maybe lower shipping. Go look for yourselves. It's all out online. FREE too. Looking, that is! If one was really determined to invest all that time and energy to save a couple of bucks, then proceed with my blessing. In all my time in the SCA, I have always used commercial fletching(turkey). Always perform the way they are susposed to. I have made many dozens of reguiar arrows, long shafts for my Han crossbow, and various other shafts as needed/ required.  After all this not inconsiderable time, I AM NOT going to stop using what has proved to work so far!! Enough for now. YIS, Abner de Plunkett. West Kingdom archer and crossbowman.  
                    
              • James Koch
                Samuel, ... I have made crossbow bolts fletched with waxed leather. I cut grooves in the bolts to hold the leather. It works well, but the leather eventually
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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                  Samuel,
                  >
                  I have made crossbow bolts fletched with waxed leather. I cut
                  grooves in the bolts to hold the leather. It works well, but the
                  leather eventually gets bent and requires warming to straighten and
                  restore the wax. I have not tried paper. I have experimented with
                  slotted bolts with poor results. This was no doubt due in part to
                  the crude job of finishing the wood. I have made wooden fletches on
                  my blowgun darts with excellent results. The wood like the leather
                  is glued into slots in the darts. Blowgun darts were commonly
                  fletched with shaved bamboo.
                  >
                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                  >
                  >
                  > At 08:47 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                  >Ah.... but you miss part of the point of this thought experiment. It's
                  >the thought of experimenting and finding out if/why other feathers
                  >will/will not work. I would love for someone to try a few different
                  >birds' feathers just to see the report on how well they worked.
                  >
                  >A thought just came to mind. If my memory serves correct, paper and
                  >thin leather were used to fletch crossbow bolts. Other than paper was
                  >expensive; Why didn't this catch on for other types of bows?
                  > Samuel
                  >
                  >On 8/23/11 6:32 PM, George Bottorf wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > If
                  > > one was really determined to invest all that time and energy to save a
                  > > couple of bucks, then proceed with my blessing. In all my time in the
                  > > SCA, I have always used commercial fletching(turkey). Always perform the
                  > > way they are susposed to. I have made many dozens of reguiar arrows,
                  > > long shafts for my Han crossbow, and various other shafts as needed/
                  > > required. After all this not inconsiderable time, I AM NOT going to stop
                  > > using what has proved to work so far!! Enough for now. YIS, Abner de
                  > > Plunkett. West Kingdom archer and crossbowman.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >--
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • James Koch
                  Gentlemen & Ladies, ... I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal s ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                  Message 8 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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                    Gentlemen & Ladies,
                    >
                    I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                    ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                    produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                    design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                    people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                    ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                    http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                    cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                    which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                    >
                    Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                  • Harry Billings
                    FWIW while I was working at Texas A&M I saw crossbow arrows fletched with folded leaves. The shafts were reeds with that were split and the leave
                    Message 9 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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                      FWIW while I was "working" at Texas A&M I saw crossbow arrows fletched with folded leaves. The shafts were reeds with that were split and the leave insertedinto the split.

                      plachoya
                      Ansteorra

                       
                      I think it may have been parchment rather than paper and thin strips of wood in addition to feathers.

                      Jon
                      On Aug 23, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Sam Wise wrote:

                      > Ah.... but you miss part of the point of this thought experiment. It's
                      > the thought of experimenting and finding out if/why other feathers
                      > will/will not work. I would love for someone to try a few different
                      > birds' feathers just to see the report on how well they worked.
                      >
                      > A thought just came to mind. If my memory serves correct, paper and
                      > thin leather were used to fletch crossbow bolts. Other than paper was
                      > expensive; Why didn't this catch on for other types of bows?
                      > Samuel

                      ExternalClassecxygrp-mkpd8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:010pxExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpecxads10pxExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassecxygrp-mkpExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClass10px10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassff7900ExternalClassecxunderlineExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassecxdiv#ygrp-mlmsgecxygrp-msg10pxExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassecxphotosExternalClassecxphotosExternalClassecxphotos10pxExternalClasssize:77ExternalClasssize:77ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClasstextareafont:99ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass10pxExternalClassExternalClassecxygrp-msgExternalClassecxygrp-msgExternalClassff7900ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClasssize:77ExternalClassExternalClassExternalClassExternalClass
                    • Taslen
                      Gladius,   Two questions   1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?   2. Who decides what level archer you are????   Gaelen From: James Koch
                      Message 10 of 30 , Aug 23, 2011
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                        Gladius,
                         
                        Two questions
                         
                        1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                         
                        2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                         
                        Gaelen

                        From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                         
                        Gentlemen & Ladies,
                        >
                        I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                        ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                        produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                        design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                        people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                        ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                        http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                        cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                        which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                        >
                        Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"



                      • bluecat@neo.rr.com
                        Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen. Dirk Edward Of Frisia
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                          Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen.

                          Dirk Edward Of Frisia
                        • brett wilson
                          Has anyone (ever!) had a wildlife and parks officer check the feathers on your arrows!?   Just sayin   LoCM From: bluecat@neo.rr.com
                          Message 12 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                            Has anyone (ever!) had a wildlife and parks officer check the feathers on your arrows!?
                             
                            Just sayin'
                             
                            LoCM

                            From: "bluecat@..." <bluecat@...>
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:59 AM
                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

                             
                            Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen.

                            Dirk Edward Of Frisia


                          • Dave Poulin
                            I think you would probably be safe once the feathers are turned into fletchings and mounted on arrows, the problem would be getting out of the park with the
                            Message 13 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                              I think you would probably be safe once the feathers are turned into fletchings and mounted on arrows, the problem would be getting 'out of the park' with the full feathers when collecting them...
                               
                              Antony
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:06 AM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

                               

                              Has anyone (ever!) had a wildlife and parks officer check the feathers on your arrows!?
                               
                              Just sayin'
                               
                              LoCM

                              From: "bluecat@..." <bluecat@...>
                              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:59 AM
                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

                               
                              Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen.

                              Dirk Edward Of Frisia


                            • James of the Lake
                              Closest I ve had is a customs officer in New Zealand asking about the fletching on my arrows when arriving in country. The concern there was the potential of
                              Message 14 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                Closest I've had is a customs officer in New Zealand asking about the fletching on my arrows when arriving in country.  The concern there was the potential of bringing in disease on any animal product that was self-cured or whatever.

                                James

                                On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:06 AM, brett wilson wrote:



                                Has anyone (ever!) had a wildlife and parks officer check the feathers on your arrows!?
                                 
                                Just sayin'
                                 
                                LoCM

                                From: "bluecat@..." <bluecat@...>
                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:59 AM
                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

                                Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen.

                                Dirk Edward Of Frisia





                              • James Koch
                                Gentlemen & Ladies, ... Years ago while visiting the zoo I picked up an eagle feather outside the bald eagle cage. I wore it in my cap for years until I
                                Message 15 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                  Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                  >
                                  Years ago while visiting the zoo I picked up an eagle feather outside the bald eagle cage.  I wore it in my cap for years until I eventually lost it.  People around Cleveland have vases with gull feathers in their houses.  An artist friend used to collect glass, stones, wood, and gull feathers from a local city beach and work them into his wands and staffs which he sold through a local gallery.  I have shot for years in city and state parks and I have never seen a ranger except in a patrol car driving past.
                                  >
                                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                  >
                                  >  At 09:06 AM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
                                   

                                  Has anyone (ever!) had a wildlife and parks officer check the feathers on your arrows!?
                                   
                                  Just sayin'
                                   
                                  LoCM

                                  From: "bluecat@..." <bluecat@...>
                                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:59 AM
                                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: FW: Moulted Gull Feathers

                                   
                                  Joann Fabrics has white duck wing feathers, pre-packaged, for about $2 a dozen.

                                  Dirk Edward Of Frisia


                                • James Koch
                                  Gaelen, ... I have requested a price from my goldsmith. She is a metals snob and works only in gold and silver, but I may be able to talk her into making
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                    Gaelen,
                                    >
                                    I have requested a price from my goldsmith.  She is a metals snob and works only in gold and silver, but I may be able to talk her into making pendants in bronze. 
                                    >
                                    As to what level archer you are, that is up to the individual to determine.  Since every SCA kingdom has their own scoring and ranking system and they are not always comparable, we decided to break it down into beginner, intermediate, and advanced.  This roughly corresponds to novice, journeyman and master.  For instance in the Middle Kingdom we have seven ranks based on royal round scores.  I can never keep them all straight and wish there were fewer.  In any case you can divide your kingdoms top royal round or IKAC score by three and use the resulting groups to determine where you are relative to people in other kingdoms.  This is probably the simplest approximation.
                                    >
                                    Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                     

                                    Gladius,
                                     
                                    Two questions
                                     
                                    1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                     
                                    2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                     
                                    Gaelen

                                    From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                    To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                     
                                    Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                    >
                                    I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                    ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                    produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                    design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                    people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                    ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                    http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                    cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                    which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                    >
                                    Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"



                                  • James Koch
                                    Gaelen, ... As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze. She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver. I can make them cheaper
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                      Gaelen,
                                      >
                                      As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                      >
                                      Jim "Gladius"
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                       

                                      Gladius,
                                       
                                      Two questions
                                       
                                      1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                       
                                      2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                       
                                      Gaelen

                                      From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                      To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                       
                                      Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                      >
                                      I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                      ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                      produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                      design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                      people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                      ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                      http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                      cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                      which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                      >
                                      Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"



                                    • Taslen
                                      eh I can hold out for a ring at that price From: James Koch To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:09 PM Subject:
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                        eh I can hold out for a ring at that price

                                        From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:09 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                         
                                        Gaelen,
                                        >
                                        As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                        >
                                        Jim "Gladius"
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                         

                                        Gladius,
                                         
                                        Two questions
                                         
                                        1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                         
                                        2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                         
                                        Gaelen

                                        From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                         
                                        Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                        >
                                        I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                        ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                        produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                        design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                        people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                        ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                        http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                        cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                        which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                        >
                                        Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"





                                      • John Edgerton
                                        Can the rings also be cast in bronze? If so, what would the price be? Jon
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                          Can the rings also be cast in bronze?  If so, what would the price be?

                                          Jon
                                          On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:09 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                           

                                          Gaelen,
                                          >
                                          As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                          >
                                          Jim "Gladius"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:

                                           

                                          Gladius,
                                           
                                          Two questions
                                           
                                          1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                           
                                          2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                           
                                          Gaelen

                                          From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                           
                                          Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                          >
                                          I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                          ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                          produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                          design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                          people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                          ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                          http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                          cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                          which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                          >
                                          Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"





                                        • James of the Lake
                                          We cast bronze rings for site favors once and gave folks the option of wearing them directly or hanging them from a ribbon. Many who actually wore them had
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                            We cast bronze rings for site favors once and gave folks the option of wearing them directly or hanging them from a ribbon.  Many who actually wore them had green bands around their fingers at the end of the day.

                                            James

                                            On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:22 PM, John Edgerton wrote:



                                            Can the rings also be cast in bronze?  If so, what would the price be?

                                            Jon
                                            On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:09 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                            Gaelen,
                                            >
                                            As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                            >
                                            Jim "Gladius"
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:

                                              

                                            Gladius,
                                             
                                            Two questions 
                                             
                                            1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                             
                                            2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                             
                                            Gaelen

                                            From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                              
                                            Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                            >
                                            I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's 
                                            ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will 
                                            produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the 
                                            design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the 
                                            people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's 
                                            ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at 
                                            http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the 
                                            cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings, 
                                            which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                            >
                                            Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"








                                          • James Koch
                                            Jon, ... My Greenwood Company ring was cast in bronze. It was around $20 cheaper than the same ring in silver. This savings isn t so great since most of the
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                              Jon,
                                              >
                                              My Greenwood Company ring was cast in bronze.  It was around $20 cheaper than the same ring in silver.  This savings isn't so great since most of the cost is the labor involved in sizing and enameling.  I like it though since it looks like a red gold.
                                              >
                                              Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                              >
                                              >
                                                At 10:22 PM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
                                               

                                              Can the rings also be cast in bronze?  If so, what would the price be?

                                              Jon
                                              On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:09 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                               

                                              Gaelen,
                                              >
                                              As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                              >
                                              Jim "Gladius"
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                               

                                              Gladius,
                                               
                                              Two questions
                                               
                                              1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                               
                                              2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                               
                                              Gaelen

                                              From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                               
                                              Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                              >
                                              I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                              ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                              produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                              design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                              people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                              ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                              http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                              cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                              which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                              >
                                              Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"



                                            • James Koch
                                              James, ... Most people will react with copper alloys to produce a green stain on the skin. I am one of the few people who can wear bronze without any
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                                James,
                                                >
                                                Most people will react with copper alloys to produce a green stain on the skin.  I am one of the few people who can wear bronze without any corrosion of the metal.  I wore my ring in the heat and humidity of Pennsic for a week and a half without removing it and I had no reaction at all.  Of course I don't rust steel either, which is helpful when you are a blade smith.
                                                >
                                                Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >At 10:30 PM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
                                                 

                                                We cast bronze rings for site favors once and gave folks the option of wearing them directly or hanging them from a ribbon.  Many who actually wore them had green bands around their fingers at the end of the day.

                                                James

                                                On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:22 PM, John Edgerton wrote:



                                                Can the rings also be cast in bronze?  If so, what would the price be?

                                                Jon
                                                On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:09 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                                Gaelen,
                                                >
                                                As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                                >
                                                Jim "Gladius"
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                                 

                                                Gladius,
                                                 
                                                Two questions
                                                 
                                                1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                                 
                                                2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                                 
                                                Gaelen

                                                From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                                 
                                                Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                                >
                                                I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's
                                                ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will
                                                produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the
                                                design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the
                                                people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's
                                                ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at
                                                http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the
                                                cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings,
                                                which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                                >
                                                Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"





                                              • James of the Lake
                                                Yeah. That s why I wipe down any blades I touch before putting them away -- especially my eating knife. I corrode susceptible metals pretty badly. Just
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Aug 24, 2011
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                                                  Yeah.  That's why I wipe down any blades I touch before putting them away -- especially my eating knife.  I  corrode susceptible metals pretty badly.  Just wanted to point out the green staining thing with bronze rings -- not a problem for some; relatively unwearable for others.

                                                  James

                                                  On Aug 24, 2011, at 8:00 PM, James Koch wrote:



                                                  James,
                                                  >
                                                  Most people will react with copper alloys to produce a green stain on the skin.  I am one of the few people who can wear bronze without any corrosion of the metal.  I wore my ring in the heat and humidity of Pennsic for a week and a half without removing it and I had no reaction at all.  Of course I don't rust steel either, which is helpful when you are a blade smith.
                                                  >
                                                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >At 10:30 PM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
                                                    

                                                  We cast bronze rings for site favors once and gave folks the option of wearing them directly or hanging them from a ribbon.  Many who actually wore them had green bands around their fingers at the end of the day.

                                                  James

                                                  On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:22 PM, John Edgerton wrote:



                                                  Can the rings also be cast in bronze?  If so, what would the price be?

                                                  Jon
                                                  On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:09 PM, James Koch wrote:

                                                  Gaelen,
                                                  >
                                                  As expected my goldsmith refuses to attempt the pendant in bronze.  She quoted a price of $200 for the pendant in silver.  I can make them cheaper in bronze, but I'd need at least 10 orders to cover the mold cost.  In bronze I can cast them for $30 each.
                                                  >
                                                  Jim "Gladius"
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >At 09:57 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
                                                    

                                                  Gladius,
                                                   
                                                  Two questions 
                                                   
                                                  1. have you a price on what it would cost as a pendant?
                                                   
                                                  2. Who decides what level archer you are????
                                                   
                                                  Gaelen

                                                  From: James Koch <alchem@...>
                                                  To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:18 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Marshal's Rings

                                                    
                                                  Gentlemen & Ladies,
                                                  >
                                                  I went ahead and sent the drawing of the proposed archery marshal's 
                                                  ring to the goldsmith. She is making a mold for the waxes and will 
                                                  produce a prototype to be photographed. In the mean time I added the 
                                                  design to the web site along with a shopping cart button. So the 
                                                  people from Pennsic who expressed an interest in ordering a marshal's 
                                                  ring may now do so. You can find the ordering information at 
                                                  http://www.alcheminc.com/index.html Just click on the link to the 
                                                  cloisonne rings. I also have a decent design for the Pelican rings, 
                                                  which had been causing me a great deal of trouble.
                                                  >
                                                  Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"








                                                • Fritz
                                                  When Dave Poulin put fingers to keys it was 8/24/11 9:29 AM... ... Strip them as you find them. It s easiest when they re fresh anyway. -- Fritz Aut inveniam
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Aug 26, 2011
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                                                    When Dave Poulin put fingers to keys it was 8/24/11 9:29 AM...

                                                    > 
                                                    >
                                                    > I think you would probably be safe once the feathers are turned into
                                                    > fletchings and mounted on arrows, the problem would be getting 'out of
                                                    > the park' with the full feathers when collecting them...
                                                    > Antony
                                                    >

                                                    Strip them as you find them. It's easiest when they're fresh anyway.

                                                    --
                                                    Fritz
                                                    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.
                                                  • kburgess1@comcast.net
                                                    can anyone provide a review of this company ?
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Aug 26, 2011
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                                                      can anyone provide a review of this company ?

                                                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-FRP-Hungary-LongBow-Bow-45-ibs-28a-H1-/110721482282?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c783be2a

                                                    • kburgess1@comcast.net
                                                      reply I revived from the on line rep: Hello friend, This bow hand made which is precise with stable performance and the feel is good when you hold it.Stay
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Aug 27, 2011
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                                                        reply I revived from the on line rep:


                                                        "Hello friend,

                                                        This bow hand made which is precise with stable performance and the feel is good when you hold it.Stay dead in hand when you shoot.
                                                        The Bow body is mad from the high elastic fiber glass which is strong enough, the bow hand and the bow tip is mulberry wood which is wear-resisting.The Bow arm cover with real durable leather.

                                                        If there's any question,feel free to contact me.
                                                        Sincerely,
                                                        powerdeal.ok"

                                                        Hmmmm  anyone have anything else to add ?

                                                        bran




                                                        From: kburgess1@...
                                                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:23:50 AM
                                                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] FRP horse bows ?

                                                         

                                                        can anyone provide a review of this company ?

                                                        http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-FRP-Hungary-LongBow-Bow-45-ibs-28a-H1-/110721482282?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c783be2a

                                                      • frode_kettilsson
                                                        My Red Flag-O-Meter just jumped to 7 .
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Aug 28, 2011
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          My "Red Flag-O-Meter just jumped to "7".

                                                          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, kburgess1@... wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > reply I revived from the on line rep:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > "Hello friend,
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > This bow hand made which is precise...
                                                          > Hmmmm anyone have anything else to add ?
                                                          >
                                                          > bran
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                        • Taslen
                                                          Or at least english is not his native tounge   Gaelen From: frode_kettilsson To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Aug 28, 2011
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                                                            Or at least english is not his native tounge
                                                             
                                                            Gaelen

                                                            From: frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...>
                                                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:59 PM
                                                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: FRP horse bows ?

                                                             
                                                            My "Red Flag-O-Meter just jumped to "7".

                                                            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, kburgess1@... wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > reply I revived from the on line rep:
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > "Hello friend,
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > This bow hand made which is precise...
                                                            > Hmmmm anyone have anything else to add ?
                                                            >
                                                            > bran
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >



                                                          • richard johnson
                                                            Not a native speaker of English. If i were to buy one, I d avoid the fiberglass, but THAT is an aesthetic thing and has nothing against fiberglass as i own a
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Aug 29, 2011
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              Not a native speaker of English.
                                                              If i were to buy one, I'd avoid the fiberglass, but THAT is an aesthetic thing and has nothing against fiberglass as i own a number of glass bows.  I just prefer wood for Recreationism.
                                                               
                                                              One thing i will advise, if the company is outside the US (especially if a non West-Europe nation), then you have NO recourse if something goes wrong.
                                                              Plus often, international shipping is higher than the cost of the bow.
                                                              This from personal and very sad experience.
                                                               


                                                               
                                                              On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 6:45 PM, <kburgess1@...> wrote:
                                                               

                                                              reply I revived from the on line rep:


                                                              "Hello friend,

                                                              This bow hand made which is precise with stable performance and the feel is good when you hold it.Stay dead in hand when you shoot.
                                                              The Bow body is mad from the high elastic fiber glass which is strong enough, the bow hand and the bow tip is mulberry wood which is wear-resisting.The Bow arm cover with real durable leather.

                                                              If there's any question,feel free to contact me.
                                                              Sincerely,
                                                              powerdeal.ok"

                                                              Hmmmm  anyone have anything else to add ?

                                                              bran




                                                              From: kburgess1@...
                                                              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:23:50 AM
                                                              Subject: [SCA-Archery] FRP horse bows ?

                                                               




                                                              --
                                                              Rick Johnson
                                                              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                                              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
                                                            • kburgess1@comcast.net
                                                              having never shot one of these bows and finding no one that has i think that i will pass. maybe they will comp me a couple of bows for testing.... ... From:
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Aug 29, 2011
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                                                                having never shot one of these bows and finding no one that has i think that i will pass.   maybe they will comp me a couple of bows for testing....


                                                                From: "richard johnson" <rikjohnson39@...>
                                                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12:00 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] FRP horse bows ?

                                                                 

                                                                Not a native speaker of English.
                                                                If i were to buy one, I'd avoid the fiberglass, but THAT is an aesthetic thing and has nothing against fiberglass as i own a number of glass bows.  I just prefer wood for Recreationism.
                                                                 
                                                                One thing i will advise, if the company is outside the US (especially if a non West-Europe nation), then you have NO recourse if something goes wrong.
                                                                Plus often, international shipping is higher than the cost of the bow.
                                                                This from personal and very sad experience.
                                                                 


                                                                 
                                                                On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 6:45 PM, <kburgess1@...> wrote:
                                                                 

                                                                reply I revived from the on line rep:


                                                                "Hello friend,

                                                                This bow hand made which is precise with stable performance and the feel is good when you hold it.Stay dead in hand when you shoot.
                                                                The Bow body is mad from the high elastic fiber glass which is strong enough, the bow hand and the bow tip is mulberry wood which is wear-resisting.The Bow arm cover with real durable leather.

                                                                If there's any question,feel free to contact me.
                                                                Sincerely,
                                                                powerdeal.ok"

                                                                Hmmmm  anyone have anything else to add ?

                                                                bran




                                                                From: kburgess1@...
                                                                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:23:50 AM
                                                                Subject: [SCA-Archery] FRP horse bows ?

                                                                 




                                                                --
                                                                Rick Johnson
                                                                http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                                                "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."

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