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Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

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  • rosslchristenson@shaw.ca
    In Canada seagulls were protected by Royal decree; not sure if they still are... Arnbjorn Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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      In Canada seagulls were protected by Royal decree; not sure if they still are...
      Arnbjorn

      Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
      Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.


      From: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw@...>
      Sender: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:45:29 -0700
      To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

       

      Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.

      Simon Sinneghe
      Briaroak, Summits, An Tir

      At 11:27 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:

       

      I'll get my merry men together and gather a bunch of the largest gull feathers on the beach.  These we'll pass on to Merlin to be used as experimental fletching.  I'll leave it to Merlin to report the results.
      >
      Jim, Alchem Inc.
      >
      >
      >  At 09:41 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
       

      I don't see why they would not work.
      Wing feathers are designed the same no matter the species, so long as
      they are large enough.

      Goose and turkey are used, i suspect, because they are everywhere.

      You may have started a thriving business here.

      On 8/22/11, Edward deWitt <sagebowman@...> wrote:
      > Check with domestic turkey farmers.  Theirs will be white most of the time.
      > Beware if you are getting them from those that have been retrieved from the
      > processing house.  These may still have meat and blood on them from being
      > plucked.  A friend wanting quills for calligraphy got a 36" sq. box of them
      > from an acquaintance one time.  The box was packed with them.  big problem,
      > they sat on his door step for 2 1/2 weeks in July in Savannah, Ga.  Won't
      > describe the scene.
      > fyi
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: James Koch <alchem@...>
      > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:17 PM
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?
      >
      >
      >
      > Jon et al,
      >>
      > Has anyone on this list fletched with gull feathers.  I can pick
      > them up by the thousands at the local beaches.
      >>
      > Jim, Alchem Inc.
      >>
      >>
      > At 06:12 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
      >
      >
      >>
      >>Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers
      > (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing
      > feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
      >>
      >>Thanks
      >>
      >>Jon
      >>
      >

      --
      Rick Johnson
      http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
      "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
      security will soon find that they have neither."


    • James Koch
      I can t say whether gulls are a protected species in Ohio, but around here they are certainly no endangered. In any case, I don t plan to shoot and pluck
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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        I can't say whether gulls are a protected species in Ohio, but around here they are certainly no endangered.  In any case, I don't plan to shoot and pluck them.  The plan is to pick up the molted feathers from the beach.  My real concern is that most beaches where I have gathered feathers in the past are state parks.  Private beaches are available, but are narrower and provide far fewer feathers.  Most of the local nature preserves will stop people from removing so much as a single acorn, but the recreational parks like the beaches don't seem to mind people gathering feathers.  A state wildlife habitat would likely be a different matter. 
        >
        Jim Koch "Gladius The Alchemist"
        >
        >  At 02:45 PM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
         

        Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.

        Simon Sinneghe
        Briaroak, Summits, An Tir

        At 11:27 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
         

        I'll get my merry men together and gather a bunch of the largest gull feathers on the beach.  These we'll pass on to Merlin to be used as experimental fletching.  I'll leave it to Merlin to report the results.
        >
        Jim, Alchem Inc.
        >
        >
        >  At 09:41 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
         

        I don't see why they would not work.
        Wing feathers are designed the same no matter the species, so long as
        they are large enough.

        Goose and turkey are used, i suspect, because they are everywhere.

        You may have started a thriving business here.

        On 8/22/11, Edward deWitt <sagebowman@...> wrote:
        > Check with domestic turkey farmers.  Theirs will be white most of the time.
        > Beware if you are getting them from those that have been retrieved from the
        > processing house.  These may still have meat and blood on them from being
        > plucked.  A friend wanting quills for calligraphy got a 36" sq. box of them
        > from an acquaintance one time.  The box was packed with them.  big problem,
        > they sat on his door step for 2 1/2 weeks in July in Savannah, Ga.  Won't
        > describe the scene.
        > fyi
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: James Koch <alchem@...>
        > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:17 PM
        > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?
        >
        >
        >
        > Jon et al,
        >>
        > Has anyone on this list fletched with gull feathers.  I can pick
        > them up by the thousands at the local beaches.
        >>
        > Jim, Alchem Inc.
        >>
        >>
        > At 06:12 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >>
        >>Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers
        > (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing
        > feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
        >>
        >>Thanks
        >>
        >>Jon
        >>
        >

        --
        Rick Johnson
        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
        security will soon find that they have neither."

      • Me
        In California and Utah gulls are protected. Not sure about other states. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless ... From: richard johnson
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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          In California and Utah gulls are protected. Not sure about other states.

          Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless


          -----Original message-----
          From: richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...>
          To:
          SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Sent:
          Mon, Aug 22, 2011 19:18:17 GMT+00:00
          Subject:
          Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

           

          Seagulls, no!  And after being bitten by one i rescued from a shark-line, ....
           
          Eagles and Hawks, yes!  Arguing that you found the feather on the ground is no legal defence.
           
          Pelicans, I do not know.
           


           
          On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Mark Hendershott <crimlaw@...> wrote:
           

          Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.

          Simon Sinneghe
          Briaroak, Summits, An Tir



          At 11:27 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
           

          I'll get my merry men together and gather a bunch of the largest gull feathers on the beach.  These we'll pass on to Merlin to be used as experimental fletching.  I'll leave it to Merlin to report the results.
          >
          Jim, Alchem Inc.
          >
          >
          >  At 09:41 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
           

          I don't see why they would not work.
          Wing feathers are designed the same no matter the species, so long as
          they are large enough.

          Goose and turkey are used, i suspect, because they are everywhere.

          You may have started a thriving business here.

          On 8/22/11, Edward deWitt <sagebowman@...> wrote:
          > Check with domestic turkey farmers.  Theirs will be white most of the time.
          > Beware if you are getting them from those that have been retrieved from the
          > processing house.  These may still have meat and blood on them from being
          > plucked.  A friend wanting quills for calligraphy got a 36" sq. box of them
          > from an acquaintance one time.  The box was packed with them.  big problem,
          > they sat on his door step for 2 1/2 weeks in July in Savannah, Ga.  Won't
          > describe the scene.
          > fyi
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: James Koch <alchem@...>
          > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:17 PM
          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?
          >
          >
          >
          > Jon et al,
          >>
          > Has anyone on this list fletched with gull feathers.  I can pick
          > them up by the thousands at the local beaches.
          >>
          > Jim, Alchem Inc.
          >>
          >>
          > At 06:12 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >>
          >>Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers
          > (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing
          > feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
          >>
          >>Thanks
          >>
          >>Jon
          >>
          >

          --
          Rick Johnson
          http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
          security will soon find that they have neither."





          --
          Rick Johnson
          http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."
        • Lyle Kirshenbaum
          I did a quick and dirty search of protected birds , and this link popped up. It is a list of birds protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act. I
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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            I did a quick and dirty search of "protected birds", and this link popped up.  It is a list of birds protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act.  I don't know how much of this still applies since it was enacted in 1918.

            Under this act, it is against the law to "take" any of these birds.  That includes transporting them or their parts (feathers included) dead, or alive.

            http://www.pacificwildlife.org/info/Online%20Docs/fmbtaList.pdf

            Abraam

            On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:52 PM, <rosslchristenson@...> wrote:
             

            In Canada seagulls were protected by Royal decree; not sure if they still are...
            Arnbjorn

            Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
            Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.


            From: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw@...>
            Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:45:29 -0700
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

             

            Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.

            Simon Sinneghe
            Briaroak, Summits, An Tir

            At 11:27 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:

             

            I'll get my merry men together and gather a bunch of the largest gull feathers on the beach.  These we'll pass on to Merlin to be used as experimental fletching.  I'll leave it to Merlin to report the results.
            >
            Jim, Alchem Inc.
            >
            >
            >  At 09:41 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
             

            I don't see why they would not work.
            Wing feathers are designed the same no matter the species, so long as
            they are large enough.

            Goose and turkey are used, i suspect, because they are everywhere.

            You may have started a thriving business here.

            On 8/22/11, Edward deWitt <sagebowman@...> wrote:
            > Check with domestic turkey farmers.  Theirs will be white most of the time.
            > Beware if you are getting them from those that have been retrieved from the
            > processing house.  These may still have meat and blood on them from being
            > plucked.  A friend wanting quills for calligraphy got a 36" sq. box of them
            > from an acquaintance one time.  The box was packed with them.  big problem,
            > they sat on his door step for 2 1/2 weeks in July in Savannah, Ga.  Won't
            > describe the scene.
            > fyi
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: James Koch <alchem@...>
            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:17 PM
            > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?
            >
            >
            >
            > Jon et al,
            >>
            > Has anyone on this list fletched with gull feathers.  I can pick
            > them up by the thousands at the local beaches.
            >>
            > Jim, Alchem Inc.
            >>
            >>
            > At 06:12 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >>
            >>Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers
            > (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing
            > feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
            >>
            >>Thanks
            >>
            >>Jon
            >>
            >

            --
            Rick Johnson
            http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
            "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
            security will soon find that they have neither."



          • Joe Klovance
            We can discuss what birds may be protected where and how that relates to gathering moulted feathers all day. The only real source of this information is the
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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              We can discuss what birds may be protected where and how that relates to gathering moulted feathers all day. The only real source of this information is the state wildlife branch. Why not just email them a question? They are usually very happy when people ask before they do something.

              Gryffyd

              To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              From: wolfharley@...
              Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:33:49 -0700
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

               

              In California and Utah gulls are protected. Not sure about other states.

              Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless


              -----Original message-----
              From: richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...>
              To:
              SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              Sent:
              Mon, Aug 22, 2011 19:18:17 GMT+00:00
              Subject:
              Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?

               

              Seagulls, no!  And after being bitten by one i rescued from a shark-line, ....
               
              Eagles and Hawks, yes!  Arguing that you found the feather on the ground is no legal defence.
               
              Pelicans, I do not know.
               


               
              On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Mark Hendershott <crimlaw@...> wrote:
               
              Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.

              Simon Sinneghe
              Briaroak, Summits, An Tir


              At 11:27 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
               

              I'll get my merry men together and gather a bunch of the largest gull feathers on the beach.  These we'll pass on to Merlin to be used as experimental fletching.  I'll leave it to Merlin to report the results.
              >
              Jim, Alchem Inc.
              >
              >
              >  At 09:41 AM 8/22/2011, you wrote:
               

              I don't see why they would not work.
              Wing feathers are designed the same no matter the species, so long as
              they are large enough.

              Goose and turkey are used, i suspect, because they are everywhere.

              You may have started a thriving business here.

              On 8/22/11, Edward deWitt <sagebowman@...> wrote:
              > Check with domestic turkey farmers.  Theirs will be white most of the time.
              > Beware if you are getting them from those that have been retrieved from the
              > processing house.  These may still have meat and blood on them from being
              > plucked.  A friend wanting quills for calligraphy got a 36" sq. box of them
              > from an acquaintance one time.  The box was packed with them.  big problem,
              > they sat on his door step for 2 1/2 weeks in July in Savannah, Ga.  Won't
              > describe the scene.
              > fyi
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: James Koch <alchem@...>
              > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:17 PM
              > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] feathers for fletching?
              >
              >
              >
              > Jon et al,
              >>
              > Has anyone on this list fletched with gull feathers.  I can pick
              > them up by the thousands at the local beaches.
              >>
              > Jim, Alchem Inc.
              >>
              >>
              > At 06:12 PM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
              >
              >
              >>
              >>Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers
              > (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing
              > feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
              >>
              >>Thanks
              >>
              >>Jon
              >>
              >

              --
              Rick Johnson
              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
              security will soon find that they have neither."







              --
              Rick Johnson
              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither."


            • John Rossignol
              I have to interject here that there is no species named seagull . In fact, taxonomically there is not even a group named seagulls (because some of them are
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 22, 2011
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                I have to interject here that there is no species named "seagull".  In fact, taxonomically there is not even a group named "seagulls" (because some of them are not particularly associated with the sea).  Officially (and it is with officialdom that one must deal in this case) they are called "gulls", and there are many different species of them -- Western Gulls, Herring Gulls, California Gulls, etc.  If you wish to check whether a particular species is protected in your state (or in any state to which you plan to take your arrows), you will probably need to do so by the actual species name.

                If *any* of them are protected, I do not recommend using any gull feathers at all as fletching, because it can be extremely difficult for anyone but a trained ornithologist or field agent to tell which species of gull a particular wing feather came from.  Also, gull feathers closely resemble those of other related species such as terns.  The feather you think is safe may actually be from a protected species.

                John
                (B.S. Biological Science, and long-time birder)


                On 8/22/2011 11:45 AM, Mark Hendershott wrote:
                  Are seagulls a protected species?  Might want to check before using their feathers for fletching.


              • rickj
                I sent you out a dozen goose feathers in yesterday s mail with a few extra from another, unnamed bird who was kind enough to drop his feathers in my path.
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 24, 2011
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                  I sent you out a dozen goose feathers in yesterday's mail with a few extra from another, unnamed bird who was kind enough to drop his feathers in my path.

                  Remind me next Spring as both Colleen and Margaret have geese adn will be collecting them for me.



                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > no cost.
                  > just give me a mailing address and I'll send out a package, hopefully
                  > tomorrow.
                  >
                  > People on this list are very helpful so I am trying to pass it on.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:01 AM, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Greetings
                  > >
                  > > That would be most helpful. What is the cost and how can I pay you?
                  > >
                  > > Jon
                  > >
                  > > On Aug 21, 2011, at 6:42 PM, richard johnson wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > If you are in a hurry, I can send you a dozen.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Rick Johnson
                  > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                  > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                  > will soon find that they have neither."
                  >
                • John Edgerton
                  Many thanks. Jon
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 24, 2011
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                    Many thanks. 

                    Jon

                    On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:50 AM, rickj wrote:

                     

                    I sent you out a dozen goose feathers in yesterday's mail with a few extra from another, unnamed bird who was kind enough to drop his feathers in my path.

                    Remind me next Spring as both Colleen and Margaret have geese adn will be collecting them for me.

                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > no cost.
                    > just give me a mailing address and I'll send out a package, hopefully
                    > tomorrow.
                    >
                    > People on this list are very helpful so I am trying to pass it on.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:01 AM, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Greetings
                    > >
                    > > That would be most helpful. What is the cost and how can I pay you?
                    > >
                    > > Jon
                    > >
                    > > On Aug 21, 2011, at 6:42 PM, richard johnson wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > If you are in a hurry, I can send you a dozen.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Rick Johnson
                    > http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                    > "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                    > will soon find that they have neither."
                    >


                  • rickj
                    To be honest, although I DO fletch my own arrows.... And i use both feathers and vanes that I buy from the stores. ....I have a fletching kit with three
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 25, 2011
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                      To be honest,

                      although I DO fletch my own arrows....
                      And i use both feathers and vanes that I buy from the stores.
                      ....I have a fletching kit with three differnt jigs, glues, etc....
                      ...It is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon....

                      I started to collect goose feathers from Colleen for quill pens.

                      It is only recently that I considered using those goose feathers for fletching.

                      Yes, I have the jigs to convert the feathers to fletching (I made it myself), I just havn't done it yet. Far too many projects and not enough time.

                      So...
                      I am very interested to see what you, who have far more experience than do I, manage to accomplish.

                      If they work, I'll spend every Spring collecting them and spreading them around this e-list as far as i can.

                      If not, well, it is worth the effort to learn, one-way-or-the-other.


                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      >
                      > Jon
                      >
                    • brett wilson
                      I have been making fletching from feathers for years and have used feathers from many different large avians.  Most work pretty well.  Wild turkey is the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 25, 2011
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                        I have been making fletching from feathers for years and have used feathers from many different large avians.  Most work pretty well.  Wild turkey is the best in my opinion.
                         
                        LoCM

                        From: rickj <rikjohnson39@...>
                        To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:02 PM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: feathers for fletching?

                         
                        To be honest,

                        although I DO fletch my own arrows....
                        And i use both feathers and vanes that I buy from the stores.
                        ....I have a fletching kit with three differnt jigs, glues, etc....
                        ...It is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon....

                        I started to collect goose feathers from Colleen for quill pens.

                        It is only recently that I considered using those goose feathers for fletching.

                        Yes, I have the jigs to convert the feathers to fletching (I made it myself), I just havn't done it yet. Far too many projects and not enough time.

                        So...
                        I am very interested to see what you, who have far more experience than do I, manage to accomplish.

                        If they work, I'll spend every Spring collecting them and spreading them around this e-list as far as i can.

                        If not, well, it is worth the effort to learn, one-way-or-the-other.

                        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, John Edgerton <sirjon1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices on fletching feathers (turkey or goose), any color. I am also interested in whole wing feathers. I can split, grind and cut my own.
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        >
                        > Jon
                        >



                      • John Edgerton
                        Ever try peacock primary feathers? Jon
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 25, 2011
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                          Ever try peacock primary feathers?

                          Jon
                          On Aug 25, 2011, at 1:21 PM, brett wilson wrote:

                           

                          I have been making fletching from feathers for years and have used feathers from many different large avians.  Most work pretty well.  Wild turkey is the best in my opinion.
                           
                          LoCM

                        • brett wilson
                          Yes.  They make beautiful copper colored fletches.  Quite nice.   LoCM From: John Edgerton To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 25, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes.  They make beautiful copper colored fletches.  Quite nice.
                             
                            LoCM

                            From: John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:42 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: feathers for fletching?

                             
                            Ever try peacock primary feathers?

                            Jon
                            On Aug 25, 2011, at 1:21 PM, brett wilson wrote:

                             

                            I have been making fletching from feathers for years and have used feathers from many different large avians.  Most work pretty well.  Wild turkey is the best in my opinion.
                             
                            LoCM



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